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Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177070#msg177070
« on: October 15, 2010, 06:10:24 pm »
I'm really fed up with Dark Matter and his gravity Nymphs.  He's pulled these out a couple of times on me recently really early in a match, and they're just completely obnoxious.  He's already got 12 black hole cards, and a triple mark, which makes it really challenging to get rolling against his deck.

Add to that the fact that his Nymphs can't be won by a player (which they shouldn't be of course) and the situation seems extra lame to me.  The deck is already really debilitating and nasty without the nymphs.  In my opinion Darkmatter doesn't really need those nymphs since it can suck up 36 quanta of every type with the spell cards in its arsenal, and the fact that it lords unwinable cards over you seems needlessly cruel to me.

Offline BC

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177136#msg177136
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 08:05:43 pm »
Dark Matter is overpowered. Easily one of the hardest FG. The best way to beat him is to use a deck that is designed to counter him, some of which can be found here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9507.0.html

Basically, mono aether is your best bet (although RoL/Hope also works to some extent), because Dark Matter is usually only good against mono decks early game. Upgraded pillars will give you precious quanta early on which you can use to stall with phase shield (he has no perm control so you will get full protection) and wait until quanta control with BH loses its debilitating effect. Even then, quite a bit of it is luck though, as early grav nymphs will ruin even mono decks.

Early Lobotomizer is also important, because you can remove momentums, and stop grav nymphs from spamming BH.

Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177193#msg177193
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 09:35:40 pm »
Dark Matter is overpowered. Easily one of the hardest FG. The best way to beat him is to use a deck that is designed to counter him, some of which can be found here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9507.0.html

Basically, mono aether is your best bet (although RoL/Hope also works to some extent), because Dark Matter is usually only good against mono decks early game. Upgraded pillars will give you precious quanta early on which you can use to stall with phase shield (he has no perm control so you will get full protection) and wait until quanta control with BH loses its debilitating effect. Even then, quite a bit of it is luck though, as early grav nymphs will ruin even mono decks.

Early Lobotomizer is also important, because you can remove momentums, and stop grav nymphs from spamming BH.
Yes its a hard deck, and will completely wang most decks that are not mono element (though once of twice my rainbow has managed to beat it on an extremely bad draw).  I don't have a problem with that, I enjoy the difficulty of most FG decks.

My point is this:

1.)  Dark Matter is likely to defeat the majority of rainbow decks so rapidly that the Nymphs don't have much impact on play.  They only serve to guarantee that a rainbow deck will NEVER be able to move against darkmatter when they come out very early.

2.)  They're largely useless against mono-decks, because a large number of towers generate too much quantum every turn for them to handle.

3.) Letting a FG play unwinable and incredibly bothersome cards creates no additional incentive to play against that FG, because the cards with the most potential to abuse you are also forbidden from Spins.

If we accept these points, basically the only thing these cards do is force ragequits.  With 12 black holes, Darkmatter is going to cast enough of them to COMPLETELY hammer an unlucky rainbow deck on basically ever engagement anyway.  That's fine.  That's what he's supposed to do.  He surpresses your power source and takes off to an early lead.

It seems pointlessly cruel to combine all that potential with the limitless BH potential of a nymph, so that even if you manage to make it through 3 or 4 blackholes and begin to mount a defense, he can permanently lock you down.

Why leave in these rage inducing cards that also taunt the player by being no-spin?

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177207#msg177207
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 09:56:23 pm »
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say here. I didn't make Dark Matter, so I have no idea why he has 4 nymphs in addition to 12 black holes. 12 BH (or even 10) would have been fine in my opinion, and would have gotten the point across that he is supposed to be an anti-rainbow FG.

What I do when I see DM while I'm playing a rainbow deck (CCYB or others) is play for few turns, then skip when he pulls a nymph. When I'm playing RoL/Hope, I skip when I don't get a lobo in opening hand. Other than that, I usually beat him with pretty good win% if I see him in oracle, because then I know what deck to play.

Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177215#msg177215
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 10:05:58 pm »
My point is that those 4 cards should be removed from his hand.

They can't be won, so they're a pain in the ass there.

They're too powerful to let a FG play because they completely shut down a huge variety of decks. 

Due to his triple mark and deck composition he can use them unreasonably often.

Taking them out won't change his play very significantly.

Those cards are basically there to rub in the player's face, which is lame.

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177221#msg177221
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 10:15:01 pm »
If you want him changed, the best place to post is probably the suggestions section.  ;)

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177223#msg177223
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 10:16:53 pm »
Heh gravity nymphs are actually important for him to draw if you're trying to beat him with a control, oty based rainbow. He has no other creatures below 5 hp, so having a nymph to eat lets you move on to eating all his chargers, which gives you a decent shot at the win :P. Of course him getting one before you get the oty out is basically a loss, but yeah... I dont think it deserves a special removal.

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177531#msg177531
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 11:44:12 am »
Dark Matter is made for countering Rainbows.
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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177534#msg177534
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 11:54:25 am »
Dark Matter is made for countering Rainbows.
Exactly, just because a lot of people use rainbows doesn't mean there can't be an fg specialized to beat them. Seriously, the only reason Dark Matter can be more of a nuisance than Decay, is because people counter fgs with decks that have a lot of different elements in it, especially rainbows.

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177574#msg177574
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 02:05:15 pm »
There seems to be two issues at heart here:

1. Is the nymph OP in the deck?

2. Should FGs have cards that are not able to be won by players?

Avoiding discussion on #1 for the moment, I do feel that the potential of rolling an upped relic is rather annoying to say the least, but having those relics mess up my spins when I do when is even more annoying. Personally speaking, if nymphs are going to be in FG decks there should be an exception made for them not to be rolled in the spins after winning.

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177721#msg177721
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2010, 05:12:43 pm »
I do feel that the potential of rolling an upped relic is rather annoying to say the least
It's 1025 Electrum. *shrugs*

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Re: Dark Matter Nymphs https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14028.msg177741#msg177741
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2010, 05:34:26 pm »
I do feel that the potential of rolling an upped relic is rather annoying to say the least
It's 1025 Electrum. *shrugs*
I'd rather roll a card I might be able to use instead of a card I have no choice but to sell.

Example- Black Hole sells for 1159 electrum. If I want to use that card and I win one, woohoo! But, if I have at least 6 and roll a 7th, I'll make all the electrum plus more than a relic could sell for.

If DM is so difficult to beat, and people don't win that often against him, then taking the relics out of the spins would increase the chances slightly for winning something people may want to keep. And since they don't seem to believe he's someone that's an easy FG to beat, increasing the chances of a winning spin still keeps with the averages of winning spins with regard to other FGs.

 

blarg: