[Old] How to Post A Card Idea

[Scaredgirl]

When I use the 'Select' option on the code box and copy-paste all the neat presented formating ie each ***Field*** on a new line, is lost.

LOL. D|L was the standard for marking creature values in the old wiki and what most persons on the forum here seem to use. D (damage) | L (Life)

What browser are you using? I don't have that problem in Firefox or Chrome.

Well I don't like D|L personally. "Life" is pretty good, although the letter "L" could mean anything really. "Damage" kind of sucks imo because "Dragon's damage is 10" sounds weird to me because they should "DO" damage not "IS" damage (if that makes any sense. The fact that I didn't know what you were talking about at first kind of proves my point.

ATT/HP (attack/hit points) is much better imo because it's easier to understand. I chose that one on the new Wiki as well, although there was no discussion about it beforehand and I don't know how others feel.

Lets hear some feedback on that.

I think this is a little degrading to the whole process. Can we change "Think of this whole operation more as fun, than any serious card design workshop." to "Think of this as a way to make your views on the direction of the game more visable rather than an over serious card design workshop.

I don't see it as "degrading" really. I think it's important to make sure everyone knows what the deal is. Your idea, no matter how good it is, will most likely NOT make it into the game. We've had hundreds of ideas here before, and from those hundreds of ideas, two (someone correct me if I'm wrong) kind of made it to the game (after some serious changes). So we are talking about a success rate of less than 1%, which is why it's crucial that we do not get people's hopes up.

Zanz has his vision for the game and it's been working very well so far. He has no obligation to use any of our ideas, and us pressuring him to do so would be very uncool.

[Kael Hate]

When I use the 'Select' option on the code box and copy-paste all the neat presented formating ie each ***Field*** on a new line, is lost.

LOL. D|L was the standard for marking creature values in the old wiki and what most persons on the forum here seem to use. D (damage) | L (Life)

What browser are you using? I don't have that problem in Firefox or Chrome.

Standard old IE the most used navigator world wide.

Well I don't like D|L personally. "Life" is pretty good, although the letter "L" could mean anything really. "Damage" kind of sucks imo because "Dragon's damage is 10" sounds weird to me because they should "DO" damage not "IS" damage (if that makes any sense. The fact that I didn't know what you were talking about at first kind of proves my point.

ATT/HP (attack/hit points) is much better imo because it's easier to understand. I chose that one on the new Wiki as well, although there was no discussion about it beforehand and I don't know how others feel.

Lets hear some feedback on that.

Current cards refer to damage (see Dive) and life already but in the Trainer with the new info Popup, Zanz has used ATK|HP so I will rescind the request to change. ATK|HP is good because it is game standard.

I think this is a little degrading to the whole process. Can we change "Think of this whole operation more as fun, than any serious card design workshop." to "Think of this as a way to make your views on the direction of the game more visable rather than an over serious card design workshop.

I don't see it as "degrading" really. I think it's important to make sure everyone knows what the deal is. Your idea, no matter how good it is, will most likely NOT make it into the game. We've had hundreds of ideas here before, and from those hundreds of ideas, two (someone correct me if I'm wrong) kind of made it to the game (after some serious changes). So we are talking about a success rate of less than 1%, which is why it's crucial that we do not get people's hopes up.

Zanz has his vision for the game and it's been working very well so far. He has no obligation to use any of our ideas, and us pressuring him to do so would be very uncool.

Yeah I understand "zero guarantee" but the effort made by everyone isn't to waste time. It is to show Zanz that we care about the game and want to offer our insight so that if he should so like an idea that he may use it in the game with foreknowledge and insight from the community that supports his game.

I feel the current statement "Think of this whole operation more as fun, than any serious card design workshop." makes my effort look like a joke.

[verity_blues]

I've discovered a solution to the discussed "card set listing" problem. That issue being: wanting to list all of the cards from the set together, somehow, to avoid someone not finding/realizing the other associated cards. Yet, not cluttering up the forum, and disregarding the current posting rules, by putting multible card ideas onto one thread.
Go to the link below of my card idea to see how I handled the discussed issue. It's alot simpler than we thought, so be prepared to slap yourself in the face. Or better yet, slap a +karma on me. 

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5595.msg63197#msg63197

[Scaredgirl]

Standard old IE the most used navigator world wide.

We have identified the problem. Here's the fix: http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html

Seriously though.. we all know IE is the worst piece of software created by man but how is it possible ,even for IE, to mess this one up? That BBcode is nothing more than regular text. How can it not work?

Current cards refer to damage (see Dive) and life already but in the Trainer with the new info Popup, Zanz has used ATK|HP so I will rescind the request to change. ATK|HP is good because it is game standard.

Hm.. I used "ATT" but I guess "ATK" would have been better. Lets go with ATK then (and we'll have to change that in Wiki as well.).

Yeah I understand "zero guarantee" but the effort made by everyone isn't to waste time. It is to show Zanz that we care about the game and want to offer our insight so that if he should so like an idea that he may use it in the game with foreknowledge and insight from the community that supports his game.

I feel the current statement "Think of this whole operation more as fun, than any serious card design workshop." makes my effort look like a joke.

Well, if you somehow see yourself as a part of the official card design team, then yes you will definitely get that "waste of time" feeling because most of your ideas will probably not make it into the game. In fact there's a chance that none of your ideas do. That's not because your ideas suck, it's a because it's a historical fact.

The more "professional" look we give this "Card Ideas" section, the more it will look like that all the best ideas will make it into the game which leads to more disappointed people. I want to make sure everyone understands it before spending their time designing cards.

I personally don't see it as a waste of time because designing is fun, and even if Zanz doesn't use my ideas, he might use some parts of it at some point.

I've discovered a solution to the discussed "card set listing" problem. That issue being: wanting to list all of the cards from the set together, somehow, to avoid someone not finding/realizing the other associated cards. Yet, not cluttering up the forum, and disregarding the current posting rules, by putting multible card ideas onto one thread.
Go to the link below of my card idea to see how I handled the discussed issue. It's alot simpler than we thought, so be prepared to slap yourself in the face. Or better yet, slap a +karma on me. 

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5595.msg63197#msg63197

Sorry, I won't slap myself so I guess I will have to slap you.

This actually the current plan B, with the difference that instead of text links, we would have image links re-sized to 50%. This would be otherwise perfect but it would be nice to see all the ideas next to each other.

Plan A is to have the individual threads, but also to have one compilation thread for each set (6+ different cards). Individual card threads would have a link to that compilation thread.

[Kael Hate]

Yeah I understand "zero guarantee" but the effort made by everyone isn't to waste time. It is to show Zanz that we care about the game and want to offer our insight so that if he should so like an idea that he may use it in the game with foreknowledge and insight from the community that supports his game.

I feel the current statement "Think of this whole operation more as fun, than any serious card design workshop." makes my effort look like a joke.

Well, if you somehow see yourself as a part of the official card design team, then yes you will definitely get that "waste of time" feeling because most of your ideas will probably not make it into the game. In fact there's a chance that none of your ideas do. That's not because your ideas suck, it's a because it's a historical fact.

The more "professional" look we give this "Card Ideas" section, the more it will look like that all the best ideas will make it into the game which leads to more disappointed people. I want to make sure everyone understands it before spending their time designing cards.

I personally don't see it as a waste of time because designing is fun, and even if Zanz doesn't use my ideas, he might use some parts of it at some point.

People make offerings to Gods everyday with the understanding that said God may not acknowledge them but they do so in a non-joking manner for the attempt to be acknowledged. A Fan who dedicates himself to a Band or group offers tribute and is accepting if his offering is not a changer of ways but is happy just to be seen.

This to me is similar. I am spending effort and time for the chance to offer tribute to Zanz. If he sees my work and considers nothing more of it or sees my work and makes use of it either way I am happy that he has seen it. To put off the effort on card ideas as an excercise in levity is insulting. If I accused you, detailing this forum, as a blantant act of self promotion and not a useful interaction medium for Zanz and the community would you feel respected?

I understand that there is a "zero guarantee" of cards making game, but my tribute is not just an act of fun.

[Scaredgirl]

People make offerings to Gods everyday with the understanding that said God may not acknowledge them but they do so in a non-joking manner for the attempt to be acknowledged. A Fan who dedicates himself to a Band or group offers tribute and is accepting if his offering is not a changer of ways but is happy just to be seen.

This to me is similar. I am spending effort and time for the chance to offer tribute to Zanz. If he sees my work and considers nothing more of it or sees my work and makes use of it either way I am happy that he has seen it. To put off the effort on card ideas as an excercise in levity is insulting. If I accused you, detailing this forum, as a blantant act of self promotion and not a useful interaction medium for Zanz and the community would you feel respected?

I understand that there is a "zero guarantee" of cards making game, but my tribute is not just an act of fun.

The difference is that in those cases the people in question know their offerings and tributes won't make a difference. Here they don't. When new players come to this forum and see this whole forum section devoted to "designing cards to be used in Elements", with Card Curators, different levels, etc. most of them will assume that this is where all the Elements cards are made. I want to make the situation perfectly clear to them.

When we had those card design competitions, a lot of people thought that the winners will make it into that game. And that's after I told them it's most likely not going to happen. I just know that unless I have that one paragraph in there, we will start getting tons of new threads and PM's titled: "why is my card idea not in the game?"

If you want to take out the fun part and make this all serious, you can do that, but you are kind of fooling yourself. Maybe in the future Zanz will run out of ideas and use only what we've come up in here. But until that happens, we are all, like you said, groupies.

If you wish to discuss this any further, please use a PM.

[jallenw]

I have no problem with the fact that the card ideas section is primarily for the entertainment of the card creators.  The card section should be considered primarily a game in itself, and not a serious forum section for the following reasons:

1) Users who submit card ideas should understand that their cards are highly unlikely to ever be implemented into the game.
2) Users should understand that if they want their card ideas ever to have that slight chance of being implemented, then their posts should be formatted exactly as Scaredgirl has requested.
3) Moderators and game developers should not feel obligated to consider every card idea.  They should be free to consider implementing only the best of the best.
4) People who reply to card ideas should realize that these cards, as posted, are only ideas, and should therefor keep their replies friendly and helpful.
5) People should be able to post card ideas without following rigid rules concerning the posts or card quality, excepting of course that intentional humorous cards are left for the humor section.

All these items are currently true.  While I hope that my cards and other cards created by users in this section will someday be implemented into the game in some fashion, I do not hold out false hope that it is likely to happen soon or even at all.  I create cards for my own amusement first, but I do try to create cards that have a chance to be implemented into the game in the future. 

All of my card creation posts follow Scaredgirl's format exactly and I have made and will continue to make balance changes to the cards based on extensive user feedback.  It is my hope that I will be one of the first users to have card content transferred to the crucible.

Once a card idea is transferred to the crucible, then the dynamic of the process has changed to a more serious level, and is more likely to be implemented into the game.

I think Scaredgirl has invented a GREAT system for card idea submissions.  She has also provided us with excellent resources for card creation. 

I have no problems with the current system.

Jallen

[verity_blues]

I'm just having alot fo fun playing with card creation and getting into debates over card issues. It also gives me great oppurtunity to improve on my image editing skills, and I need alot of improvement there for my ministry work. Its fun to do and it doesn't hurt my feeling to know that the odds of inclusion into the actual game or about 1/100,000 or so.

[Kael Hate]

Thanks SG.

That slight change removes the sligh that my work is a joke.

Lets hope the tribute work we produce is of a quality befitting our Icon.

[dragonhuman]

Is there a rule about posting your own idea? As it has to be your idea and can't be taken from another player or another game?

[Scaredgirl]

Is there a rule about posting your own idea? As it has to be your idea and can't be taken from another player or another game?

Well, if the other player knows about it and is ok by it, then yes. Plain stealing ideas from others is not cool. You should also mention his/her name somewhere in the thread.

You can steal ideas from other games as much as you want because ideas cannot be copyrighted.

[Kael Hate]

You can steal ideas from other games as much as you want because ideas cannot be copyrighted.

Actually Ideas can be Copyrighted especially once Published. Mechanics can be Copyrighted also.


There is a loophole in that the idea must be within the relationship held within the context of the idea. An example could be Magic the Gatherings: Tap Mechanic.
- Under the Copyright of the idea, you cannot use the Term Tap to insinuate the drawing of mana or a mana like resource within a game environment. Richard Garfield owns that Idea.
- This does not stop you turning a card sideways for some reason.
- This does not stop you using a Binary mechanic to show a resource is used.
- This does not stop you using the word Tap for something other than drawing mana from a resource.
- This does not stop you calling the resource something else and naming the effect something else.



A Good general guideline is to take inspiration from other games and not blatantly copy other games.
If you feel its not a copy then post it.
If you feel something is copied and too similar to the original, then post telling the card designer as such. If Zanzarino wants to use an idea that is present in other games the choice is his.