Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting

[SnoWeb]

Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting

Salvaging 6 x 7 Win = 42 cards
1 x Chaos Seed
10 x Nova
3 x Discord
3 x Entropy Pendulum
2 x Poison
1 x Arsenic
1 x Momentum
2 x Deflagration
3 x Chrysaora
1 x Fog Shield
2 x Wings
7 x Air Pendulum
2 x Owl's Eye
1 x Lobotomizer
1 x Reverse Time
1 x Steal
1 x Lightning

Discarding 30 X 2 Loss = 60 cards
2 x Lycanthrope
12 x Nova
5 x Discord
11 x Entropy Pendulum
1 x Momentum
6 x Graboid
4 x Earthquake
2 x Deflagration
1 x Purify
1 x Fog Shield
2 x Flying Weapon
3 x Black Dragon
6 x Devourer
1 x Dusk Mantle
2 x Steal
1 x Lightning

Penalties 2 x 6 = 12 cards
7 x Air Pendulum
2 x Basilisk Blood
1 x Black Dragon
1 x Chrysaora
1 x Mind Flyer
Converting 12 cards + 4 Voodoos
2 x Wings
2 x Chrysaora
1 x Gravity Pull
1 x Butterfly Effect
2 x Poison
2 x Arsenic
2 x Otyugh => 12 x entropy pendulums

4 x Voodoo Dolls => 4 x Black Dragons

[SnoWeb]

Kurohami  2-0 RavingRabbid
This deck is just pure pleasure to salvage  6 cards in:

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4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 590 590 590 590 593 593 5ib 5ib 5if 5if 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5rg 5rg 6u5 7gm 7gm
Nyma 2-0 Vinvick3174
Salvage  6 cards - congrats for not being defeated Nyma!

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52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i9 5i9 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm
Zeru 2-0 Truddy
Salvage 6 cards

Code: [Select]

5ok 5ol 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61o 61u 620 620 620 620 622 622 622 622
10 men 2-1 acsabi44
Salvage 6 cards

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4vi 52q 595 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5i7 5og 5og 5rk 5ur 61p 61p 61p 61p 61p 61p 61q
SnoWeb 2-1 Artagas
Salvage 6 cards (with 4 novas in!!!)

Code: [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55q 5lf 5um 5um 5um 5um 5up 5up 5ur 5ur 5ut 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61q 61q 61r 61r 61s 61v 61v 622 622
Amilir 2-0 kevkev60614
Salvage 6 cards
and be rewarded by a nice comment from the master of Fire: "Props to Team Entropy for going 2-0 against us this round.  Props to whoever constructed the deck.  And props to amilir; it looked to me like he played perfectly.  GGs, amilir."

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4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 5f3 5f3 5f6 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fb 5fc 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp
Sir Valimont 2-0 Klaymore
Salvage 6 cards or only 3 (for the subbing)?

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5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5lk 5lk 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ol 5ol 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu
Kael Hate 2-0 vagman13
Discard 30 cards (all cards)

Code: [Select]

4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 5ul 5ul 5ul 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uo 5up 5up 61q
ICB 1-2 xKelevera
Infraction: <1/2 the cards are entropy.
Discard 30 cards

Code: [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 55q 590 590 590 590 590 590 593 593 593 593 5f6 5f6 5ia 5og 5oi 5oi

[SnoWeb]

If I understood correctly we take 6 cards penalty for the illegal deck + 6 other cards penalty for the change in my deck? Ouch


i'm not really sure how many cards we can Salvage from Valim duel. Do we have a normal victory (6 cards) or a subbed one (3 cards) ?

[Sir Valimont]

SALVAGE / DISCARD SUGGESTIONS:

We have a lot of opportunity this round to salvage cards that we've lost, so our Vault stays strong. I personally believe we should replace as many lost Novas as possible -- we lost 12 that round but can get most of them back. Nova is a great card for us because it gives us a lot of diversity of decks, and lets us use so many cards in our Vault. It just makes the whole Vault stronger.

Please everyone critique my suggestions!

Discard:

Kael Hate  2-0  vagman13
 >> DISCARD ALL
-2 Lycanthrope, -6 Nova, -3 Discord, -6 Entropy Pendulum, -3 Black Dragon, -6 Devourer, -1 Dusk Mantle, -2 Steal, -1 Lightning

icecoldbro  1-2  xKelevra
 >> SAVE 2
-6 Nova, -4 Discord, -5 Entropy Pendulum, -1 Momentum, -6 Graboid, -4 Earthquake, -2 Deflagration, -1 Purify, -1 Fog Shield, -2 Flying Weapon


Discard Subtotals (60 cards):

-2 Lycanthrope
-12 Nova
-7 Discord  ... save 2 =   -5 Discord
-11 Entropy Pendulum
-1 Momentum
-6 Graboid
-4 Earthquake
-2 Deflagration
-1 Purify
-1 Fog Shield
-2 Flying Weapon
-3 Black Dragon
-6 Devourer
-1 Dusk Mantle
-2 Steal
-1 Lightning


Salvage:

Kurohami  2-0  RavingRabbid
+3 Discord, +3 Entropy Pendulum
Thes are pretty obvious for me. They replace critical cards that we lost from discards.

Nyma  2-0  Vinvick3174
+3 Poison, +3 Chrysaora
The nice thing about a few Chrysaora is that they are excellent in a rainbow-poison deck. With Death mark and Novas, we can really use them to kill.

Zeru  2-0  truddy
+2 Wings, +3 Air Pendulum, +1 Lobotomizer
A total of 8 Wings gives us the possibility of 2 Wings decks if we like. The Lobotomizer is really useful since we can't lobo except with a Mind Flayer in our whole Vault; and lobo is one of the very best CC options against Fire. Between 3 Air Pendulums here and 6 from another salvage, 9 Air Pendulums is also good for our quanta balance and helps us build effective Wings decks ... and lastly we can always use them for discard/salvage if we can't choose something else. Right now I have them used for that.

10 men  2-1  acsabi44
+1 Chaos Seed, +2 Deflagration, +1 Fog Shield, +1 Reverse Time, +1 Lightning
What a lovely deck for salvage! All of these cards are useful, and all are because we are running in short supply. Just an excellent set of things to have.

SnoWeb  2-1  Artagas
+4 Nova, +1 Momentum, +1 Steal
Novas ftw! The Momentum is also very important because we lost one.

Amilir  2-0  kevkev60614
+6 Nova
More Novas, making our losses hurt very little this round.

Sir Valimont  2-0  Klaymore
+6 Air Pendulum
There is little else to salvage from this deck, and Air Pendulums combined with the 3 from above can be useful in Wings decks for us. Or discard/salvage fodder.


Salvage Subtotals (42 cards):

+1 Chaos Seed
+10 Nova
+3 Discord
+3 Entropy Pendulum
+2 Poison
+1 Arsenic
+1 Momentum
+2 Deflagration
+3 Chrysaora
+1 Fog Shield
+2 Wings
+9 Air Pendulum
+1 Lobotomizer
+1 Reverse Time
+1 Steal
+1 Lightning

Conversion and Discard by Penalty:

It doesn't make a difference which 12 are being converted and which 12 are being discarded, so I list them together. These are just suggestions of course although I've given my reasoning. Please let any disagreement be known so we can change things accordingly!

-9 Air Pendulum  (0 remain in Vault)
-2 Wings  (6 remain in Vault)
-4 Voodoo Doll  (0 remain in Vault)  Since they cause auto-desyncs, we really should not create more commotion by using them. It's a real shame because they are good for our decks.
-2 Poison  (12 remain in Vault)
-2 Arsenic  (6 remain in Vault)
-2 Basilisk Blood  (4 remain in Vault)  These are still useful but much less without Voodoo Dolls, so it makes sense to remove a couple.
-1 Gravity Pull  (6 remain in Vault)
-2 Otyugh  (0 remain in Vault)  Very but we have to give something up and we don't really have the Gravity cards to make an effective oty deck. We have lots of other CC too ... certainly this one is up for debate.

[Nyma]

Conversion and Discard by Penalty:

It doesn't make a difference which 12 are being converted and which 12 are being discarded, so I list them together. These are just suggestions of course although I've given my reasoning. Please let any disagreement be known so we can change things accordingly!

-9 Air Pendulum  (0 remain in Vault) I believe we should keep some of these considering how many air cards we have, we could make a very solid duo without risking a bunch of our entropy pends. Things we could discard/convert instead are - 1 dim shield, -1 lightning, maybe -3 elves, I don't really see how they're helping us any.
-2 Wings  (6 remain in Vault)
-4 Voodoo Doll  (0 remain in Vault)  Since they cause auto-desyncs, we really should not create more commotion by using them. It's a real shame because they are good for our decks.
-2 Poison  (12 remain in Vault)
-2 Arsenic  (6 remain in Vault)
-2 Basilisk Blood  (4 remain in Vault)  These are still useful but much less without Voodoo Dolls, so it makes sense to remove a couple. I disagree completely with this discard and would replace these with -2 steals
-1 Gravity Pull  (6 remain in Vault)
-2 Otyugh  (0 remain in Vault)  Very but we have to give something up and we don't really have the Gravity cards to make an effective oty deck. We have lots of other CC too ... certainly this one is up for debate.

[SnoWeb]

So I did the changes that Sir Valimont proposed for now. Nothing against you Nyma, it is just that it was easier for me to copy Valim's post.
I put all the contested cards in the the penalty part. I also converted all the 12 others into pendulums as it is what we have lost the most.

Concerning the penalty cards now, I suppose we should make the decks first and adapt consequently. What do you think?
I also think we should keep some air pendulums but I don't know about discarding the elves. Also IMO it's better to keep the steals than the BBs.

N.B.: Even if we don't have voodoo any more we should post our decision in this thread: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16736.0.html

[10 men]

Concerning that thread, I think that now we shouldn't discard the Voodoo Dolls and instead convert them into dragons. What I said in round 5 preparation thread is still true - they're vital in a Devourer deck. Other candidates for Discarding are some of the Butterfly Effects, Sapphire Charger or Emerald Shield.

[SnoWeb]

I converted the 4 Voodoos into 4 Dragons. We have only 6 devourers left anyway.
I also discarded 3 Chargers and an Emerald Shield instead. I think the / won't suffer from this (we could put a heal or an entropy pillar in instead).

Concerning the Air pendulums: how much do you want to save and in exchange for what?

[Sir Valimont]

I converted the 4 Voodoos into 4 Dragons. We have only 6 devourers left anyway.
I also discarded 3 Chargers and an Emerald Shield instead. I think the / won't suffer from this (we could put a heal or an entropy pillar in instead).

Concerning the Air pendulums: how much do you want to save and in exchange for what?

I definitely agree with Dragons.

I disagree with the other choices ... so will find an alternate suggestion.

I think 2 Emerald Shields is much better than 1. At some point in the future it is quite possible we will fight a team with a reduced vault with high suspicion that they are playing a bolt deck. That's when we need 2 shields against them for an auto-win. In general it's very unreliable to have 1 important card in a deck ... 2 copies is much better.

For Chargers, they are another situational advantage. In truth they are almost the same as Abominations except 1 less Power, and yet they are absolutely perfect against any kind of shield stall. Really worth having in some cases ...

[SnoWeb]

I also discarded 3 Chargers and an Emerald Shield instead.

Changed for 3 chrysaoras and a BE

[Sir Valimont]

SnoWeb:

Gravity Pull should be conversion, not penalty;
-1 Black Dragon in penalty section (we still keep 4 from Voodoos)
-2 Chrysaora (keep 1)

[SnoWeb]

Done

So, we keep discarding the air pendulums?