WELCOME TO WAR 4 EARTH CHAT!!!!!
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Important sites you will need to keep track of throughout war:
1. Team chat (you're here!):
http://typewith.me/7Rk4fxFhyu 2. War 4 Intel Googledoc:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AprBQuUifY8mdDg0Y05SeUU1LUdnVl9UQXJOVXBzV0E&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=1 3. Vault Tracking Tool (This one is temporary, feel free to familiarize yourself with it and play around, don't play around with the real one later though!):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvdifMTdMyhEdHFKSWdneDZvZ0hEQTVxak42UkxNX3c&hl=en_US#gid=31 4. Private War Forums:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,237.0.html 5. New chat (Oct. 28th):
http://willyou.typewith.me/p/War%204%20Earth%20Chat This probably goes without saying, but please don't share these links with anyone outside of Team Earth.
Quick Note: Secret Sections are up and posted.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------EARTHLINGS
Please type your name here indicating your chat color (e-mails also as you will need access to two googledocs)
kirchj33 - jkirchner33@gmail.com
Mithcairion - brewpython27@hotmail.com
avenger - biggreenpig@gmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
Sevs - bsevs126@gmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
annamall "animal"- nicbatz@hotmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
CCCombobreaker - bgraham.email@gmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
bogtro - bogtro123@gmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
MartyrX - martyrdx@gmail.com - Access to Vault Tracking, War 4 Intel
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UPDATE 10/8 20:04 GMT
I will begin to work on building the vault at approximately 300 GMT on 10/9 (after the Nebraska American Football game is over). The more help I can get, more ideas people have, the better. If you would like to help out please come online at this time.
Note: Has anyone seen Mith? I think his computer went kaboom.
Special thanks to everyone who has helped grind out this testing as we get closer to the start of war.
I wanted to put some external strategy stuff here before we build the vault, just so we can reference it.
Types of Decks brought for War 3, Round 1:
Entropy:
Rushes: 1
Control: 6
Ramp:
Denial:
Stalls: 1
Aether:
Rushes: 1
Control: 4
Ramp: 2
Denial: 1
Stalls:
Fire:
Rushes: 1
Control: 2
Ramp: 3
Denial:
Stalls: 2
Note: Bringing purify vs. Death was popular, almost seems like a no-brainer.
Entropy brought discord in all decks except one, so there was a bit of a denial component to each deck.
Element specific counter decks (i.e. decks I would use in a round 1 matchup):
Entropy:
OE Control, War 3 Deathstall, Omega Grabbow
Death:
The Immortal, Grabbow w/ Purify, Pulvybow w/ Purify
Gravity:
Discogons, Grabby rush w/ RTs, Omega Grabbow,
Life:
PUGons, OE Control, Devonian Dragons
Fire:
DiscoGons, PUGons, Omega Grabbow
Water:
Pulvybow
War 3 Deathstall
Light:
Pulvybow w/ EQs instead of BB, Huge Immortal, Devonian Dragons<---this
, Discogons
Air:
Mono w/ Pulvy
Discogons
Diss Stall:
4vf 4vf 4vg 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 594 594 594 594 594 594 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 6u7 6u7 6u7 8pj
http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z14vf4vgz14vl4vnz34vpz5594zG5aaz26u78pjTime:
Firestall, Devonian Dragons, OE Control
Darkness:
Whole world minus shields, Grabbow w/ steals
Aether:
Mono w/ Pulvy (consider EQs>BBs)
Whole World i vote this
58u 58u 58u 58u 594 594 594 594 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 622 77b 77b 80d 8pu
Pulvybow w/ purify
HERE
Vault Inventory (Someone please double & triple check this):
(30 cards) Mono w/ Pulvy - Accessorized (4 EQs, 2 Dragons, 1 Tit)
(33) OE Control
(30) Devonian Dragons - Accessorized (5 RT, 3 Ghosts)
(30) Whole World - Accessorized (2 SS)
(40) The Immortal - Accessorized (1 miracle)
(60) 2x Omegagrabbow - Accesorized (3 Purify, 1 steal, 1 Nightmare)
(30) PUGons
(30) Pulvybow (better pulvy tbd) - Accessorized (2 BH)
(30) Discogons
(21) Partial Firestall (2 Fahr, 6 Rage Pots, 2 Fire Shields, 1 Deflag, 6 Bolts, 4 SS)
(7) Partial Deathstall (1 Ars, 6 Poison)
(12) Partial ImmoRush (6 Immo, 6 Phoenix)
Extra Cards not in specific Decks:
(25) 4 EQs, 1 Dragons, 1 Tit Shield, 5 RT, 3 GoTP, 1 Miracle, 4 purify, 1 steal, 2 BH, 2 PA, 2 Nightmares, 1 LS
Deck Categories:
Rush:1
Control: 6
Denial: 1
Ramp: 2
Stall:3
Consider replacing phoenixes with the following immorush:
58o 58o 58o 58o 58u 58u 58u 590 590 590 590 590 590 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 77e 77e 77e 8ps
TTW Test: Golems vs. Birds - 9 ups
Golems: 58o 58o 58o 58o 590 590 590 590 590 590 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dm 7dq 7dq 8ps
6, 7, 6, 6, 9, 7, 10, 5, 7, 6 - TTW = 6.9
Phoenix: 590 590 590 596 596 596 596 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 77e 77e 77e 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 8po
7, 8, 7, 9, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9, 9 - TTW = 7.7
8 most expensive quanta decks:
Firestall
Immortal
OE Control
Discogons
Deathstall
Mono w/ Pulvy
PUGons
Dev Dragons
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DECK IDEAS/TESTING
This is not an official part of war, but now would be the appropriate time to discuss this. 100+ hours have already been dedicated to this portion of War Prep, and I am certain it will be a huge key to our success.
1. Begin here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AprBQuUifY8mdDg0Y05SeUU1LUdnVl9UQXJOVXBzV0E&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=12. If you have a deck idea that needs fine-tuning, please put those in the Decks In Progress section and follow the format already used.
3. If something is strong enough that you feel it could be tested, please turn your attention to the deck testing tab. Right click on a column and create a new column, name the deck concept, and insert the deck code.
4. Begin testing in the trainer found here:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer5 games against each of the decks found in column A should help give an idea of the deck's overall strength.
Some tips/guidelines to think about when creating decks:
1. I would like to focus on some of our deck deficiencies when creating decks.
2. I place a higher value on flexible decks that have overall strength, as opposed to those which are specific counters. That being said, less powerful decks have their place in war too if they require specific counters themselves. Don't expect these kinds of decks to carry us deep into war, however.
3. Please focus on tweaking already made decks as well. Those posted already are by no means perfect. Green indicates decks I am 90% sure we will carry into our vault, yellow indicates a deck I am somewhat undecided on, Red means I will not be considering taking the deck because it simply does not have enough strength.
4. Be aware that when testing decks, there is a considerable amount of AI fail. For this reason I place more value in overall stats to indicate a deck is good and any given matchup can be misleading on a specific deck vs. deck basis.
5. Concepts that have been developed and failed thus far for Mith & I:
Dev/EQ
Trident
Lockbow (Trident/Dev/EQ Rainbow)
Liquid Shadow & Steel/Hematite Golems
6. Specific Earth Counters/Popular War Deck concepts that every deck we create should keep in mind:
Grabbows
Wings/Dim Shields
Quanta Splits
Stalls (particularly poison & sanc stalls)
Reverse Time (as an overall element, we are particularly vulnerable to it)
Black Hole. This one is a little dicier, as it is not a viable strategy for most elements, and even elements where it would be a strength can be hard pressed to make it viable. Still, considering the tight quanta production of so many decks, it is something that needs to be accounted for.
7. I think the decks Mith & I have made to this point have one weakness I'm scared of: Earthquake. We offset this weakness by having access to multiple grabbows, gnomes & a nice immorush, but those teams that are particularly good at strategy may be able to meta and figure out which opponents we will use these less susceptable decks and exploit our reliance upon pends through EQ or discord.
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PLAY TIPS
1. Screenshot all desyncs. Both at the time the desync is occuring and at the win screen if you happen to beat the AI afterwards. This ensures no games which should be won will be replayed. Have MS Paint open at all times during matches in order to paste the screenshots you take. Also, DO NOT tab around while searching for, or playing matches. Leave chat in a separate browser and if you need a bolt/quanta calculator, keep this in a separate browser as well. I use this:
http://jumpoffduck.co.cc/elements/bolt.htm2. Earthquakes - You are now an Earthling, it is important you master the usage of Earthquakes. General EQ rules of thumb:
Quanta Stacks of 1: Leave alone
Quanta Stacks of 2: EQ situationally (definitely in early turns, use discretion later)
Quanta Stacks of 3: EQ that shit!
vs. Novabows/Immo decks: EQ anything you have excess quanta for
Warden's delay can stack
If you have any questions/problems with English language translation, PLEASE ask.
TIPS AGAINST SPECIFIC DECKS
better nova pulvy tbd vs firestall - use BB on early creatures, destroying priority: fh, fireshield, sanc
against dune scorp and poison/miracle - drop as much damage on the table as possible poison/miracle destroying priority: shield, arse
Against ffq/hope - If hope is active, momentum your growing creatures. Destroy feral bonds.
Against aether stall - the lobo is dangerous if you got phoenixes. Destroy it!
Important Chat log between kirch & Sevs:
kirchj33: k
0:34kirchj33: vaults due in 17 hrs, just fyi
0:35kirchj33: actually less than 16 now
0:35kirchj33: hmm what else beats gravity consistently?
0:50kirchj33: Sevs, holla at me when you unafk
0:51Sevs: hey
0:53Sevs: from bhwelos during the tournament
0:53Sevs: i got a hint that catatitans will be prevelant
0:54Sevs: especially with the buff to frozen titans, each frozen titan =50 damage
0:54Sevs: enough to threaten immortal and with freezing and wings could bea danger to grabbows
0:54Sevs: something with discords would be best
0:55kirchj33: yeah I was thinking they might open with catatitans + wings
0:55Sevs: which is not really affected by RT
0:56kirchj33: So maybe discogons then
0:57kirchj33: I was also thinking discogons w/ pandies would be a real strong open vs. air
0:58kirchj33: discos to help stall their dragons, upped pandy to take out any damsels
0:58kirchj33: actually pandy really works 200 times better with a stall
0:58kirchj33: I wonder if we can pull of an AM/pandy/discord/SS/tit shield stall
1:00kirchj33: AM for dragons, pandy for all their other creatures, SS for UG
1:00kirchj33: although, they would probably be crazy to run UG vs. us
1:05Sevs: mmmm that actually sounds very good
1:05Sevs: how many cards 35 or so?
1:06kirchj33: sure
1:07kirchj33: It would mean we would have to pack some extra cards like AM x4 and probably 2 or 3 pandies
1:07kirchj33: but we could use half of our prop bonus to pull that off
1:11kirchj33: I wonder if that would beat the walls of doom deck
1:11kirchj33: That's probably their most likely opener vs. us
1:13Sevs: if you antimatter the arsenics then you will do fine
1:14Sevs: want to pvp to try this out?
1:14kirchj33: sure, which would you like me to be?
1:14kirchj33: the air deck?
1:15Sevs: now i can do the air deck
1:15kirchj33: ok lemme make a pandy stall really quick then
1:19kirchj33: kay
1:19Sevs: also what if air brings a an eternity wings stall?
1:19kirchj33: I didn't balance this at all
1:19kirchj33: but you get the idea
1:19Sevs: lol ok waiting
1:20kirchj33: derp
1:21kirchj33: forgot to actually put SS's in
1:21Sevs: lol
1:22kirchj33: k
1:23Sevs: k
1:29kirchj33: hmm, quanta balancing fail
1:29Sevs: lemme see the code?
1:29Sevs: and i would do upped antimatters and all pends
1:30kirchj33: I'm too embarassed to give you the code
1:30kirchj33: Well
1:30kirchj33: The only thing I was thinking about that
1:30kirchj33: is if they suspect stall
1:30kirchj33: They're favorite way of breaking stalls in war 3 was EQ + dragons
1:31Sevs: yea and with the threat of skyblitz
1:31Sevs: and they have upped dragons now
1:31kirchj33: upped dragons are boss
1:31kirchj33: almost not even worth bringing a tit shield vs. air
1:32kirchj33: or a diamond shield
1:32kirchj33: dive & dragons mostly laugh at it
1:35Sevs: something like thishttp://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z24saz34vjz24vlz14voz158uz5590z65aaz26u78pj
1:36kirchj33: Ewww
1:37kirchj33: BE
1:37kirchj33: I'd rather run a pulvy over BE
1:37kirchj33: BE is a huge dead card in war
1:37kirchj33: How about this?
1:37Sevs: lol lol
1:38Sevs: but the duo makes it so easy this will also help with aether
1:38kirchj33:
http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z14vfz14vlz34vnz34vpz5594zG5aa8pj1:38kirchj33: lightnings laugh at BE
1:39kirchj33: try scrimming me again with that
1:39Sevs: ok
1:40Sevs: waiting
1:40kirchj33: supposedly searching
1:40Sevs: retry real quick
1:41kirchj33: I didn't get in if you did
1:54Sevs: if you add 1 diss shield i think it would be perfect
1:54kirchj33: kay
1:56Sevs: should we test it agianst other air decks?
1:56kirchj33: sure lemme pee, 30 secs
1:57Sevs: lol
1:58kirchj33: k back
1:58kirchj33: what else could they bring that has a chance of beating it?
1:58kirchj33: I mean out of decks we might expect to see from them
1:58Sevs: i dont have any upped sky dragons so you might have to do that one
1:59kirchj33: just a skyblitzing dragon rush mono?
1:59Sevs: that or PU Dragons
2:00kirchj33: either one of those would get destroyed by it I think
2:01kirchj33: and DD hates rainbows as I found out by his recent post about novas
2:01Sevs: yea with antimatter
2:02kirchj33: ok rdy
2:02Sevs: what happens with skyblitz and antimatter
2:02kirchj33: I forget
2:03kirchj33: I think it just stays
2:03kirchj33: searching
2:03Sevs: lol i need the deck code for the deck
2:03kirchj33: Its on the left
2:04kirchj33: under Air: Diss Stall
2:04kirchj33: 4vf 4vf 4vg 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 594 594 594 594 594 594 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 6u7 6u7 6u7 8pj
2:04Sevs: lol didnt see that section
2:04Sevs: ok ready
2:16kirchj33: k, I like it
2:16Sevs: me too
2:16kirchj33: pretty opponent specific, but getting off to a good start will be huge
2:17kirchj33: So I think it's worth it, even if we only get 1 games worth of wins from it
2:17Sevs: and i think we might find appropriate places for it later if not we can convert those with limited use
2:17kirchj33: We could play it round 1 and then hide it and play it again in like round 4 or something too
2:18Sevs: true
2:18kirchj33: or just play it again in round 2 with PAs lol
2:19kirchj33: EQ would be my biggest concern vs. them after they saw it
2:20Sevs: lol
2:21Sevs: although with a stall that big 2 Pa's might be up the RNG
2:23Sevs: DD like stalls though
2:23Sevs: he made a light air one in trials
2:24kirchj33: We might be better off running pulvy vs. them in round 1
2:24kirchj33: Counters wings/stalls nicely
2:25Sevs: true
2:27kirchj33: Mono w/ pulvy seems to do just fine vs. them w/o bringing extra vault cards
2:27Sevs: BB will take care of the dragons
2:27kirchj33: yeah
2:27Sevs: alright i am for that
2:29kirchj33: Aether is gonna be a tough one to meta
2:29kirchj33: First and foremost, everything we run has to counter lightnings/dims & the possibility of bonebolt
2:30kirchj33: On top of that, theres the threat of devtal
2:30kirchj33: and a general or lt. deck threatens fractix as well
2:32kirchj33: EQs would seemingly be a good play vs. Aether, but they were always more than prepared to face EQ after losing to us using them in round 1
2:32Sevs: momentum dragons?
2:32Sevs: also they have a very good grabbow
2:32kirchj33: momentum dragons are much too slow
2:33Sevs: against any stall it will do fine as it takes 3 lightning to kill one
2:33Sevs: but gravity pulls for cc?
2:33kirchj33: yeah but they don't pump out damage quickly enough and momentum puts us at a card disadvantage
2:34Sevs: true
2:34kirchj33: If we have a general or lt deck, would upping wardens ever be worth it vs. them?
2:34Sevs: no
2:35kirchj33: k
2:35kirchj33: whole world did well vs. them in AI testing
2:35kirchj33: but AI =/= real pvp
2:36Sevs: whole world could be good
2:36kirchj33: We can really only use testing results for 3 things
2:36kirchj33: 1. Is a deck strong overall
2:36kirchj33: 2. Does a deck fail vs. a particular opponent
2:36kirchj33: 3. Is it possible to consider if it has a good result
2:37kirchj33: pulvybow w/ purify might be nice if we suspect bonebolt
2:39Sevs: i think higs will be smart enough to not use something she used so prevelently last war
2:39kirchj33: I agree
2:40kirchj33: She definitely won't open vs. us with a bonebolt
2:40kirchj33: but we would also be stupid not to run something that beats it
2:40Sevs: true
2:41Sevs: i be back in 5 mins
2:51kirchj33: Humm what could we open with vs. water?
2:52kirchj33: Pulvybow seems like a strong play vs. them
2:53kirchj33: They were the one element I was 100% planning on opening with immophoenix against
2:53kirchj33: Now I'm not so sure we should even bring that deck
2:54kirchj33: Lemme know when you're back and maybe we can do some quick tests vs. arctic infection
2:57kirchj33: 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5og 5ol 5ol 5on 5on 5on 5oo 7gr 7gr 7gr 8pr
3:02Sevs: alright i was just testing whole world vs aether and i think it would be good
3:03kirchj33: eff me
3:03Sevs: lol what
3:03kirchj33: immo isn't really good vs. arctic infection anymore
3:03Sevs: yea arctic infection is going to be tough to counter
3:03kirchj33: anything creature based is gonna be a big risk vs. that deck
3:05kirchj33: actually, deathstall seems like it might be a good play vs. whatever water throws at us
3:05Sevs: poison vs water risky but i think it might work
3:05kirchj33: oh right, purify, lol
3:06kirchj33: I think I like pulvybow or deathstall vs. them
3:06Sevs: i dont think they will bring purify
3:06kirchj33: Not vs. us
3:07kirchj33: They are gonna be too concerned with stopping grabbies and breaking the immortal
3:07kirchj33: we could always run a deathstall with 3 upped poisons to help manage wings
3:09kirchj33: so we could maybe even run a few pends with skull bucklers?
3:09kirchj33: That might be a bad idea because it slows down our SS
3:09kirchj33: the threat of trident is always looming with them
3:09Sevs: yea i dont know if they do a water rush that SS will heal enough
3:10kirchj33: true
3:10Sevs: with the threat of grabbow?
3:10Sevs: if we bring upped diamond shield
3:10kirchj33: yeah, diamond shield vs. upped poisons would be the tough choice there
3:11kirchj33: maybe split the difference and do 1 diamond, 2 upped poisons since upped poisons + arse are tough to run just off the mark
3:13kirchj33: ok, imma build a tentative vault now
3:13kirchj33: then simulate a few rounds just to see how decimated it will be at like rounds 3/4
3:14Sevs: ok
3:18kirchj33: so I guess we'll find out in the morning if we get to add any prop bonus
3:20kirchj33: Can I erase what you've done or did you want to save it first as a reference for when I'm done?
3:24Sevs: erase it
3:27kirchj33: damn, now that I'm testing it seems like immophoenix might actually be a good option vs. water
3:31Sevs: lol
3:31Sevs: i have concerns about aether previous starter vs us
3:32Sevs: that grabbow is pretty good vs anything but immortal
3:32kirchj33: damn
3:32kirchj33: even whole world eh?
3:38Sevs: eh after a couple plays it is 3-1
3:38kirchj33: wanna do a pvp scrim?
3:38Sevs: sure
3:39Sevs: i am using a version of whole world that i tweaked for aether
3:39kirchj33: ok, I'll just run their grabbow as is
3:39Sevs: ok
3:41Sevs: ready?
3:41kirchj33: searching
3:41kirchj33: I added 3 ups
3:41Sevs: ok
3:49kirchj33: humm, only drew 1 fractal the whole time?
3:49Sevs: i trimmed it to this 58u 58u 58u 58u 594 594 594 594 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 622 77b 77b 80d 8pu
3:49Sevs: 2 fractals for the gemfinders and shriekers
3:50kirchj33: I see dragons in what you pinged and not shriekers
3:50Sevs: right
3:50Sevs: i fractaled your shriekers
3:51kirchj33: oh
3:51kirchj33: herpa derpa
3:51Sevs: but for 12 pends and 4 gemfinders i get so many 1 pend draws
3:51kirchj33: lol wtf
3:52Sevs: but it relaibly beats bonebolt
3:52kirchj33: feels like we could go more aether quanta and another fractal
3:52kirchj33: then just SS off the gemfinder quanta
3:53kirchj33: I guess you could only do that with a lt. or general deck though
3:53kirchj33: because you would have to run all upped gemfinders then in case you fail drew earth quanta
3:53Sevs: yea
3:53kirchj33: lets scrim again
3:54kirchj33: It still felt like you had the advantage to me
3:54Sevs: ok
3:54kirchj33: but maybe that's because I never drew my flag
3:54Sevs: yea the deflag doesnt help either
3:54Sevs: ok waiting
4:04Sevs: i guess i am confident with the chances
4:04kirchj33: yeah me too
4:05kirchj33: Whoever uses it better be well-practiced vs. all of aether's decks though
4:05Sevs: yea
4:06kirchj33: I never thought we would end up bringing this many dragons in our vault
4:06kirchj33: I didn't use a single one in trials
4:06kirchj33: ofc I banned dims and wings though
4:08Sevs: yea we are kinda limited in our creatures though
4:09Sevs: i am interested in what time will bring
4:09kirchj33: me too
4:09kirchj33: I have a feeling their decks will be much stronger this time
4:09kirchj33: but I don't expect the players to be any good at all
4:10Sevs: players will be players but counterdecking will be counterdecking
4:10kirchj33: true
4:10Sevs: they might bring Ghosts and grabbies
4:10kirchj33: counterdecking will be even more severe this war
4:10Sevs: eternity kills immortal, RT kills grabbow
4:10kirchj33: ugg
4:11kirchj33: ghosts and grabbies are hard to stop for us
4:11kirchj33: thats why they were so prevalent in trials
4:11kirchj33: gave me a false sense that it was an awesome deck
4:12kirchj33: also, none of the decks I listed would perform well vs. GnG
4:12kirchj33: for the time matchup
4:13kirchj33: Omega Grabbow might actually be a good play vs. them
4:13Sevs: lemme look that up
4:13kirchj33: deflags don't need to come out particularly early, and it overproduces earth so its fairly resistant to RTing grabbies
4:15Sevs: true but the draw denial could allow it to get too far ahead
4:15Sevs: what about that OE control deck
4:15kirchj33: good, but it would get wrecked by EQ I think
4:16kirchj33: We can try it in a scrim
4:16kirchj33: the good thing about it is all of the wings and CC are off the mark
4:16Sevs: well i wouldnt use dragons
4:16Sevs: yea wings can be chained off the mark
4:17Sevs: golems maybe?
4:17kirchj33: maybe
4:17kirchj33: I wouldn't put running wings past 10 men either
4:17Sevs: mmm
4:19kirchj33: you're right though, sometimes we're just gonna have to hope and pray that someone doesn't bring wings and risk a more well-rounded strategy
4:19Sevs: true
4:19Sevs: i think wings is going to be a hard thing to incorporate into a time deck
4:20kirchj33: it would be a hard counter for sure
4:20kirchj33: like wings + ghosts go!
4:21Sevs: but risky
4:21kirchj33: I suppose we could bring some air pillars if you think we should keep OE Control more flexible
4:23Sevs: mmm
4:26kirchj33: So do I add ghosts in case we want them instead of dragons later or do we try and salvage them along the way?
4:27kirchj33: I'm thinking we should bring 3, that way if we lose with devonian dragons we still have the option of running 3 ghosts + 4 RTs later
4:28kirchj33: and then have a 5th RT in case we want to splash it in a grabbow or something
4:28kirchj33: I added them for now, I can remove them later if we need the space
4:29kirchj33: Also, Light Pillars/Pends in the Immortal or all Earth Pends?
4:36Sevs: ok
4:37Sevs: for immortal i would go as simple as possible the more quanta splits allow for funky draws
4:37Sevs: especially in a 40+ card stall
4:38kirchj33: are we bringing this fire stall or no?
4:38kirchj33: I'm glad its last on the list, we can make up our minds when I get to it
4:41kirchj33: Tough decisions to make: immo phoenix or no? 2 Immortals or no? Huge firestall or no?
4:41kirchj33: also, deathstall or no
4:42Sevs: i think a better version of death stall can be made
4:43Sevs: and the OE control deck can easily beat all of times decks
4:43kirchj33: Try it, I dare you
4:44Sevs: unless they develops something new
4:44Sevs: challeneg accepted
4:44kirchj33: Mith and I spent several days trying to make better versions of that deathstall
4:45kirchj33: I really wanted to incorporate skull shields or bonewalls, but both detract too much from the SS
4:45Sevs: ahh ok they are much different from last wars
4:45kirchj33: That War 3 version is the most "flexible", but I'm not a huge fan of it regardless
4:46kirchj33: also, its really strong vs. entropy when testing
4:46kirchj33: and anything strong vs. "The BIg 3" has more value to me
4:47Sevs: mmm
4:53kirchj33: Question
4:53Sevs: answer
4:53kirchj33: Do we want 2/4 Purifies? and 2/4 Bholes?
4:53Sevs: why BH's
4:53kirchj33: UW?
4:54Sevs: EQ is strong enough grunteed
4:54Sevs: guaranteed
4:54kirchj33: ok, I'd still like 2
4:54Sevs: ok
4:54kirchj33: probably dumb
4:54Sevs: they are good against novabows
4:54kirchj33: but if we can somehow keep them around until late in war it could be game-changing
4:55kirchj33: so 2 or 4 purifies?
4:55Sevs: yea EQ's and BH's against UW means autowin
4:55Sevs: i would bring 4
4:56kirchj33: BH vs. the novabow fest at the end that war always turns into is huge too
4:56Sevs: if we predict wrong and lose, we are misssing a key counter for the rest of war
4:56kirchj33: true
4:56Sevs: i still say 2 H but used wisely
4:56Sevs: 2BH*
4:57kirchj33: any nightmares or try and salvage those later?
4:58Sevs: i say 3 but you dont have to
5:01Sevs: i think they might be hard to salvage and are probably good against aether and fire
5:01Sevs: fractix counter at least
5:02kirchj33: I put 2 on the consider adding list for later
5:02kirchj33: jesus this is taking a long time
5:03Sevs: yea
5:03Sevs: ok 2 sounds reasonable
5:03Sevs: what should we do vs fire?
5:04kirchj33: discogons seems good to me
5:05Sevs: ok
5:05kirchj33: at least for round 1
5:05Sevs: what if they rush?
5:05kirchj33: if its a mono or duo, discord or wardens might hold it down
5:06kirchj33: if its an immo then were effed
5:06kirchj33: or novabow even
5:06kirchj33: round 1 fire could probably use some more thought
5:07kirchj33: ok we have 70 cards left
5:07kirchj33: probably more though because I'm sure I can remove quanta
5:07Sevs: as long as we have the tools we have more time on decks themselves
5:07kirchj33: no deathstall, immo rush, or fire stall added yet
5:08kirchj33: We probably just need enough quanta to build 8 decks
5:08kirchj33: So if we figure out which 8 decks require the most quanta, we can trim the fat after that
5:10Sevs: remember you can only convert 24 at a time
5:10Sevs: if you lose more than 2 matches you will be short quanta
5:10kirchj33: lol fml
5:12kirchj33: How many PAs should I add?
5:12kirchj33: 3?
5:13Sevs: do we need them?
5:14Sevs: i would say 2 at the most
5:14Sevs: but with the rush vs stall threat i think EQ would be a terrible risk against us
5:15kirchj33: yeah
5:16Sevs: maybe only 3 purify
5:19Sevs: we could probably run the firestall with diamon shields
5:20kirchj33: could ya
5:20kirchj33: we could really use that prop bonus lol
5:21Sevs: i think we could use just all allout rush
5:21Sevs:
http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z358oz258uz5590z15f6z55f9z55faz277e8ps5:22Sevs: has the quanta supply of a graboid rush with the extra rush of the lava golems
5:23kirchj33: why the time mark?
5:26kirchj33: phoenix immo is still really strong as a general's deck too
5:28Sevs: to not rely on the 2 card immolation combo
5:28Sevs: i actually use that upped to farm arena now
5:29kirchj33: Hmm
5:30Sevs: entropy is going to be strange with matrim at the helm
5:30kirchj33: lemme play with this unupped version some
5:30Sevs: he seems to really like mutations
5:31kirchj33: Yeah Matrim told me he was at 40% entropy a few hours ago lol
5:31kirchj33: and he said nobody is helping him
5:31Sevs: lol
5:31kirchj33: Its like Rasta = permafk, TNG = permafk, and a bunch of noobs make 2829842 novabows
5:31Sevs: they are going to depend on rainbows too much
5:32Sevs: they are going to have to suicide this war calling it now
5:32kirchj33: bold call
5:32kirchj33: I really like OE control to open vs. them
5:32kirchj33: but you also said its good vs. time
5:33kirchj33: might end up just being uncreative vs. entropy and running a grabbow
5:34kirchj33: if we had a bigger vault to play with a 3 solar shield/6 miracle immortal would be good vs. them I think
5:34Sevs: lol a single deflag will ruin that matchp
5:34Sevs: i tried that one too
5:35kirchj33: blah
5:35Sevs: a graboid rush with solar shield off the mark/nova
5:35Sevs: and in a grabbow there will be deflags
5:35kirchj33: true
5:35kirchj33: I wouldn't be surprised to see him run BE at some point
5:36kirchj33: I think his creativity will be the death of him tbh
5:36kirchj33: this is no war for creativity unfortunately
5:36kirchj33: cos then you are stuck with a bunch of dead cards
5:38Sevs: we will see pandebonium often
5:39kirchj33: In general, or from entropy?
5:42Sevs: entropy
5:44kirchj33: ok I'm gonna hit the sack and get up tomorrow and simulate a few rounds so I can double check quanta
5:44kirchj33: also check for prop bonus
5:45kirchj33: I have a feeling we aren't gonna win prop bonus though
