Round 1 - Strategy

[Sevs]

This is for the discussion of the testing in this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AprBQuUifY8mdDg0Y05SeUU1LUdnVl9UQXJOVXBzV0E&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=10)

For the most part this is a summary but I would also like to figure out how they might want to counter us with an entire vault to use, they are going to be very creative

MartyrX vs NikaZaslavsky
Known Decks	Not likely but possible Decks
Firestall	deja-hope
Dune scorps	nightmare solar shield
Solar poison
immortal
peggy rush
grabbow
sniper saders
To be cont...

AnnaMall vs TheManuz
Known Decks	Not likely but possible Decks
Ghostmare	Wings?
Dune scorps	fractal scarabs
Ghost bow	mono time(he loves eternity and hourglass)
Ghosts n Grabbies	tbc
To be cont...

Because typewithme chat history does not save, I recommend either copying the chat log or post a short summary of any important discussions here to better keep in touch

Input is greatly appreciated and no ones opinion will be overlooked.  Mith and Kirch feel free to edit this with anything you want

[AnnaMall]

From some preliminary testing/reverse I found that bb is kinda useless assuming they ll be packing RTs, in decks like war3 poisonstall.
Dont know if some of the tested decks of ours have the element of surprise but OE seems much better CC wise.
Better tower/pend splits...is it possible?
seeing 3 random cards from about 400 is not a biggie...not show more than expected? eg show something stupid like mod graboid/shrieker rush? -
expect something similar from them? eg ghostmare?

[Avenger]

A grabbow from light? 

[Mithcairion]

  379 cards

First off, we all know that previous intel we may have had on this team may well be a moot point due to the fact that majofa is not only a master deckbuilder, but a master metagamer, as well.  With that being said, we need to either be a step ahead of him or two steps behind  .

Firestall:  A good deck for them, but not a great deck, especially vs. .  One thing to keep in mind if playing against this deck is that they don't tend to pack as much PC as they may need, especially if their opponent is depending on permanents for their win condition.  Also, with us packing Graboids as well as other high HP creatures, it does discourage them from playing Firestall a bit unless they plan on packing two in their vault (not likely due to the decreased vault size).  Also, with there being a limited number of matches this round, there is really no reason to believe that any team will send anything other than their best decks out, and this is not their best deck.  Add to this fact that everyone in these matchups are relatively inexperienced PvPers and that it takes some time to become comfortable and skilled when using stalls, it only adds to the argument that they will not likely bring this deck.Solar Poison:  Again fitting into the stalling theme.  Also, this is not a particularly strong deck matchup for them vs. us, as we have in-element access to Stone Skin which greatly decreases the effectiveness of Poison.  While we would be somewhat susceptible to this deck due to the fact that we would have to evolve our Graboids in order to do the damage necessary to pull out Miracles, they also know that our creatures that we are likely to use have very high HP, namely our dragon and Steel Golem (we have to expect that other teams will expect us to use them as they're the single best upgrade that has).  Also, see previous point about stalling this round.Immortal:  The final stall they may send against us.  See previous points about stalling in general.  Also, this is a deck that we can bring ourselves and the best way to know how to beat a deck is to play it extensively.  Thus, it follows that we would be intimately aware of how to beat it (lots of high damage creatures and/or quanta control or Eternity).  The one worry would be if they bring it along with EQs, although if they do that they will be sacrificing elsewhere in the deck.  While I doubt that we will see this deck due to both the stall-ish nature as well as the fact that they would be loathe to provide us with more cards should they lose, it is to be noted that any of several decks we will be bringing this round can beat it.Blessed Dune Scorpions:  A semi-stall, due to the fact that it is likely backed up by healing and/or Sundials and Eternity.  While this deck would have advantages against us; namely our weakness to RT, any deck that can get out damage quickly can decimate this deck routinely.  Between Grabboids, our upped Golems, as well as our ability to splash in the big hitters from , this is also not a likely deck for them to bring against us, albeit one that is more likely than any of the true stalls.Blessed Peggies:  Moving much more towards something that could hurt us.  This can be combined with Solar Shields and Miracles to produce a hard hitting deck that sets up relatively quickly and has good staying power.  The one fear of this deck is Reverse Time, and due to the fact that we have such a great synergy with , I don't necessarily foresee them using this deck, although it could well be a good choice.Sniper Saders:  Of all the decks they are likely to run, I think is one that may make the most sense.  We have a natural weakness to Wings, and this deck has a natural proclivity to carrying them.  That being said, this is not a particularly fast deck and we could very well outrush it even if we don't prepare well.  If they are looking to hard-counter us, this is the deck for them to do it with.  One thing to keep in mind in this case is majofa's metagaming prowess.  While this deck may have us hard countered, he could well figure that we would do our best to prepare for it and go with a deck that would do major damage to any deck we would bring that would do well vs. Sniper Saders.  All-in-all, this is a strong possibility, but we cannot bring a narrow hard-counter ourselves.Grabow:  One of the two most likely decks for us to see, as it provides for good versatility as well as still being sufficiently rush-y.  Almost every player knows how to play a Grabow, and they will most likely have a few different incarnations of it in their vault thus making it hurt less if this deck does lose.  Any deck that we bring should be able to beat this as a good barometer.RoL/Hope-Deja/Hope:  These decks actually present more of a problem for us as we have neither (1) Hard CC, (2) A way to bypass shields, or (3) Growing Creatures.  Again, this is very specific and as such we cannot count on them using it, yet horribly effective if they do.  Of the two listed, RoL/Hope is LESS likely to be brought due to the fact that it is more of a Gen/Lt. specific deck and losing with it at this juncture would all but decimate it for future rounds.  This is something we need to keep in the back of our mind when testing, as the strategies needed to beat it are generally not the same as many of the other decks.[/list]

[kirchj33]

I think light is most likely to use sniper saders, a grabbow, or poison/miracle stall, in no particular order.  Typically, rushes were a winning strategy for them early on in war 3 because people were over preparing to handle their stalls.

[Sevs]

I actually think the immortal might be our best option. make it 42 cards(normal immortal + 2 morning star). It will beat Firestall, Solar poison, smaller immortal, deja hope and sniper saders

It will possibly grabbow and blessed peggies if it doesn't rush too quickly. the grabbow should be somewhat slower with the 50% light rule.

If they bring blessed dunes, then you have to hope the combo happens late. and eternity isn't included.

Is there another possible light - time duo that can be used? and how effective is blessed scorpions against our decks since 6 RT + eternity is pretty devastating vs grabbow

[kirchj33]

The only problem with running a 42 card immortal with morningstars is that we have no morningstars!  Maybe we'll pick some up this round?

I am 95% certain I'd like to use a pulvybow this round vs. light because it should nicely counter any stall/control/denial deck they can conjure up, and has enough CC to handle their "slower" rushes.  Just playing the percentages here in round 1 seems like a good idea to me.

My only concern is that this deck is somewhat complex to play because it requires some difficult choices and moves made with perfect timing, but I am confident that Martyr will be up to the task.

Time, I am leaning towards OE control, or OE control minus animate in a 31 card form, or even rebalanced with a few more earth cards.  Also considering the other 3 decks I have listed on the intel googledoc and I am open to additional ideas and suggestions.

[Sevs]

Quotes from Type with me before deleted

"
Round 1 Matchups have been announced!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32223.0.html

Round 1 Strategy
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32254.new.html#new

Event Card: Scouting: Two teammates are seeded against other Scouts. Winners view 3 random cards from the loser's Vault.

Round Starts: Thursday: 13 Oct 2011 @ 2100 GMT
Round Ends: Saturday 15 Oct 2011 @ 2100 GMT
kevkev confirmed in chat that duel phase is only 2 days long!

MartyrX 3 vs. NikaZaslavsky 0 (Light)

AnnaMall 3 vs. TheManuz 0(Time)"

"MartyrX-- Chat Log w/ NikaZaslavsky 10 October 2011

[18:58:10] MartyrX [»]  NikaZaslavsky: Did you get my PM about War Round 1?
[18:59:28] NikaZaslavsky [»]  MartyrX: yes, I was waiting to talk to you in chat
[19:00:19] MartyrX [»]  NikaZaslavsky: when would be a good time for you mate
[19:03:03] NikaZaslavsky [»]  MartyrX: I'm free any day except tuesdays
[19:03:56] MartyrX [»]  NikaZaslavsky: ok gimme just one sec
[19:04:54] NikaZaslavsky [»]  MartyrX: from about 20 GMT to 24 GMT
[19:15:18] MartyrX [»]  NikaZaslavsky: How is Friday @ 2030 GMT, 1530 Central time, and 1630 Eastern Time?
[19:15:58] NikaZaslavsky [»]  MartyrX: sure, let me save that somewhere
[19:16:30] MartyrX [»]  NikaZaslavsky: ok mate see you then and Good Luck


PM from theManuz on 12/10/2011

Hello annamall,
regarding our match, it happened that i will be busy on the time we agreed (that was sunday on 17:00 for me and on 18:00 for you).
Will be ok on sunday at 20:00 for me, 21:00 for you?

I'm waiting for your response.
Bye

REPLY: This is cutting it too thin before the deadline i think... maybe we need to contact the team leader and probably the warmaster?


MartyrX's Strategy for Round One
 
Sniper Saders- (General Rule of Thumb),
·         Lightning goes on Saders BEFORE they are endowed
·          BB goes on Saders AFTER they are endowed
·          BB goes on Saders AFTER they are endowed
·         If you are not behind in the damage race: PC goes on OE>wings,
·         Make sure you always have enough gravity quanta to get the wings though,
 
Grabow - You will want to watch for buffs again with your CC,
·         Lightning goes on stuff before it gets buffed
 
·          Save BB for things after they have been buffed, or just as a general Oh Shit safety valve if you are falling way behind early, That deck can possibly go way ahead of us on damage without us being able to recover
 
·         At the start: Playing Pulvy vs. Grab will be a judgement call, Mostly lean towards Pulvy, but if you are pouring in earth quanta and want to get a nice headstart go grab, they shouldn't have the speed to recover if they are off to a slower start
 
Poison/Miracle stall -
 
·         Always go Pulvy > Grab here, If we pull a late pulvy we are likely screwed  unless they faildraw on solar shields, you have a buttload of creatures  in your hand, and they have low light quanta generation,
 
·         In general, zap solar shields first, then ars  if you have leftover quanta to ensure you can zap another solar shield if it is played the next turn,
 
·         Here are sometimes you will have to take a "live to fight another day" mentality though for example: They already have 15 light quanta generated by the time you pull pulvy, You are pinging damage on Nika, but not enough to be a serious threat when the possibility of Miracle is looming, You are pinging damage on Nika, but not enough to be a serious threat when the possibility of Miracle is looming,  but still leave enough damage exposed to lure out the miracle, then the turn after she miracles zap the solar shield so she can't turn around and quickly miracle again,
 
·         One final trick: If something is degening from plague and you don't have many poison counters Consider if you will still be alive in 6 turns If you think you will be BB your creature that will die next turn its no good to you dead unless you need the finishing damage from the turn before it dies.
 
·         Remember vs. any creatureless stall you can calculate an extra 5 damage into your finishing total if you hold lightning in hand

Don't play grabs if there is a solar active and you cannot evolve them. The 1 hp is not making up for the quanta generation.
 
Firestall - Firestall will be very tough to beat with that deck, but pulvy gives us a fighting chance, 
 
·         If you pull a pulvy or two early, you will likely win no matter what, if you bottom deck pulvies or they top deck all of their deflags, you will likely lose no matter what, Y
 
·         You already know the trick with BB + forest spirit Same can be done with your fireeater,
 
·         Be sure not to wrecklessly play grabbies without having an answer for a fireshield if one comes So I will play grabbies without pulvy but only in number equal to the amount of BB's I have in hand, Evolve them, play BB, Again, a "Live to fight another day" mentaility,
 
·         Keep an eye on their fire quanta at all times, You know how you can manipulate things based upon that total
 
·          If you get your forest spirit past 3 HP, you know you are good until they hit 20+ fire quanta, Or else they will have to consider using double CC on your fire spirit,
 
·         I prefer to play with grabbies buried most of the game even if you look like you have game in hand 1 RoF can ruin you,
 
·         A good goal is to try and play tricks that help you get grabs evolved and then buried For example, play a few and then evolve and bury them in sequence
 
Dunescorps –
 
·         priority is Eternity>Sundials>Sancs,
 
·         Basically, you wanna avoid their double draws, prevent your creatures from Being hammered by RT
 
·         Always use CC on a dune scorp as soon as its buffed
 
·         Burrow grabbies until you have the quanta to be able to replay them in case of RT 
 
·         The Eternity, Sundial, Sanc chain all depends on what the field looks like Due to RTs being prevalent in that deck also,  it may be necessary to keep the Grabs unevolved and concentrate on the  Sancs and Sundials
 
One thing about playing either Firestall or Dune Scorps, ALWAYS track what has been played when it comes to the important cards Fire Shields, Fire Bolts, Deflags, and FHs for Firestall, and RTs, Sancs, and Sundials for Dune Scorps It will help you to figure out if it is reasonably safe to unburrow/evolve Graboids, go for the OTK, etc."