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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg184635#msg184635
« on: October 25, 2010, 09:51:24 pm »
Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting

Salvaging
5 x Poison
3 x Arsenic
3 x Heal
6 x Quintessence
3 x Mind Flayer
3 x Chimera
5 x Giant Frog
6 x Wings
2 x Ice Shield
2 x Shockwave
1 x Ice Bolt
1 x Basilik Blood
2 x Titan
2 x Fog Shield
1 x Charger
1 x Vampire Dagger
1 x Freeze
1 x Lightning

Discarding
6 x Stone Pillar
6 x Earth Pendulum
6 x Light Pillar

Penalties

Converting

Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg187976#msg187976
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2010, 10:02:35 pm »
The round isn't over yet, but we have finished all our matches, so we can begin this, right? Any ideas?

Decks we can salvage 9 cards from (2-0 wins)

Code: [Select]
52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52r 542 542 542 542 542 542 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c3
Code: [Select]
5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ib 5ib 5ib 5ib 5id 5id 5id 5id 5if 5if 5if 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 621 621 621 621 621 621
Code: [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 74g 74g 74g
Code: [Select]
5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5on 5on 5oo 5oo 5oo 5ooDecks we can salvage 6 cards from

Code: [Select]
595 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5i7 5l9 5l9 5l9 5og 5og 5rk 61p 61p 61p 61q 71a 7gn 7tb
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55l 55l 55n 55n 55s 55s 55v 55v 576 576 576 576 5og 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo

Offline Terroking

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg187988#msg187988
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 10:25:36 pm »
Well, it helps if we can see the decks we have to discard/salvage from :P

I'll put it up myself later when I've got time if it still needs doing.
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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg187997#msg187997
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 10:37:29 pm »
Edited my second post with Terroking's suggestion. (This comment was made just so Terroking's comment didn't look weird)

Offline Demagog

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188003#msg188003
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 10:55:46 pm »
As far as salvaging goes...

Deck 1: 5 poisons, 2 arsenics, 2 heals

Deck 2: 6 quints, 3 mindflayers

Deck 3: 3 chimeras then either 5 frogs 1 heal or 6 cockatrices.

Deck 4: 4 wings, 3 freeze, 2 ice shield

Deck 5: BB, 2 freeze, arsenic, 2 phoenixes

Deck 6: 3 wings, 2 titans, 1 charger

Just my opinion at the moment.

Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188009#msg188009
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 11:09:02 pm »
Oh yea, and discarding.

Decks we must discard 6 cards from

Code: [Select]
58o 58o 58q 58q 58q 58q 592 592 592 592 592 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622
Code: [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 590 590 590 590 590 590 593 593 5f6 5ia 5oi 5oi 5oi 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 778 778
Code: [Select]
58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 594 594 594 594 594 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5oi 5oi

Offline Demagog

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188011#msg188011
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 11:12:41 pm »
We should probably just drop as many pillars as we can from each one, followed by pendulums. We are about to add 12 cards from the propaganda thing, plus we can convert...

Offline Terroking

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188139#msg188139
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 03:39:23 am »
We should probably just drop as many pillars as we can from each one, followed by pendulums. We are about to add 12 cards from the propaganda thing, plus we can convert...
I agree with this, though we could probably afford to ditch some other cards (e.g. the Purify+Deflag from my deck) so we don't get too short on Pillars, even if we do convert.

Deck 1: 5 poisons, 2 arsenics, 2 heals (Agreed, though I can't see too much utility gained from the Heals)

Deck 2: 6 quints, 3 mindflayers (Agreed here as well, not really anything of value, but the Flayers could come in handy with Nova/Immo decks)

Deck 3: 3 chimeras then either 5 frogs 1 heal or 6 cockatrices. (I don't know, are the Chimeras really worth it? Not as if there is a lot of deck opportunity to be gained from them. I think 4-6 Frogs, 3 Cockatrices, and then 0-2 Heals would be more viable, opens up a life rush hybrid)

Deck 4: 4 wings, 3 freeze, 2 ice shield (Agreed)

EDIT: Any thoughts on what the extra 12 cards should be spent on? I'm leaning towards another Immo deck, (If we Salvage some and bring in some more Golems) possibly another set of Pests and their add-ons, or just some more sideboard cards (6 more Novas here would be useful, as it'd let use send out 2 Discord decks+Voodoo) Another Voodoo is viable as well.

Deck 5: BB, 2 freeze, arsenic, 2 phoenixes (Ach, I dunno, rather have Fogs>Phoenixes. IF we're taking Phoenixes though we should probably take Immos over Freezes. (+Arsenic?) I'd opt towards 3 Immolation, 2 Fog Shields, BB)

Deck 6: 3 wings, 2 titans, 1 charger (Yeah, don't see much else to be gained there, though I'd take another FOg over the Charger)
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Offline TimerClock14

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188144#msg188144
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 03:42:23 am »
lots to choose from in jmdt's minibow huh?
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Offline Demagog

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188147#msg188147
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 03:48:17 am »
Well, we already have four fog shields, but if you think we need more, then ok. Also, can we go over the 12 card limit with the propaganda cards? I'm doubting it.

Offline TimerClock14

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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188172#msg188172
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 04:55:39 am »
i highly doubt it. SG might start wearing a live chicken for a hat if we go over the 12 card limit
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Re: Round 1 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14536.msg188250#msg188250
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 07:52:22 am »
Here's what I'd pick and why.  If you see a percentage, that's my preference level for that option.

Deck 1
-5 poison, 2 arsenic, 1 bonewall, 1 heal

Reasoning: poison and arsenic are huge, after that the choices get harder.  bonewall maybe fits in a deck with death mark, heal can be stuffed in any rainbow and there are not many other choices.
Deck 2
-3 mind flayer, 4 quintessence, 2 squid
Reasoning: mind flayers bring a cheap lobo which is possibly useful in rainbows or fractal decks, and quintessence, while expensive, might just be important at some point.  There is a lot of antimatter and reverse time floating around, quint may prove important at some point and upping it brings the cost down a touch (occassionally more viable that way).

Arctic squid soiund nicer than they are.  Unless you're water mark or bring a lot of pillars, their ability is just too expensive to get good use out of, and they're way too easy to kill.  Unless you have a deck with double digit water quanta in need of using I don't think this will be all that helpful.
Deck 3
-(50%) 3 chimera, 6 emerald pillars
-(50%) 3 chimera, 5 horned frog, 1 heal

Reasoning: chimera is obvious.  We can use a set of creatures with low quanta costs, a lot of the deck is not so hot for us.  I'm almost inclined to take the pillars or pendulums to open up deck options if we get adrenalined druid staffs or something later.  If it doesn't work out they become conversion targets at some point.

The chimeras also potentially go with the chargers or titans from the other deck below.
Deck 4
-5 ice bolts, 2 ice shield, 2 shockwave
Reasoning: ice bolts have a high freeze rate as well as being great killers for those 2 hp creatures, chrysoara/fire eaters/fire spirits/unupped forest spirits/lava golems/even phoenix., they can also be used to stop your own antimattered creatures which we have problems killing in general.  They also fit into rainbows.  They're not super powerful, but the problem creature kill, mixed with freeze potential.  I started with water mark, and after 5 months or so of using water decks, I started to regard ice bolts as essentially freeze with bite.  1 quanta freeze, vs 2 quanta ice bolt, not a huge deal if you're only using one of them.

The shockwaves are nice cc quanta fillers for any flying weapon decks we make.  If we use the mark as fuel for only animate weapon, then shockwave gives us something else to do with everything that accumulates.  Same thing for any wings decks (which we already have some of).

In case you're wondering, I'm not that enamored by wings, just because they're more effective against certain elements than others.  Specifically, they're effective against earth, which means we should expect to see a lot in the future anyway.

Deck 5
option 1) (60%) 1 arsenic, 1 reverse time, 1 basilisk blood, 1 rage potion, 1 vampire dagger, 1 deflag
Reasoning: this is all important stuff for nova or immolation rainbows and we lack enough of it all, the vampire dagger and arsenic are particularly important as we have a lack of rainbow fuelable cheap weapons in general - most of our weapons are 5+ quanta which doesn't go well in immo-novas.option 2) (30%) 6 immolates
Reasoning: discord is one of the highest used cards, immolates are a possible counter, antimatter is also getting a lot of use which these also counter, this is our chance to stock up, not everyone will hand these too usoption 3) (10%) 5 phoenix, 1 arsenic
Reasoning: they make replacements for lava golems in immo decks where the opponent has kill based cc
Deck 6
option 1) (50%) 6 chargers
option 1) (50%) 5 chargers 1 titan
Reasoning: chargers make deadly upped creatures, they're like shriekers with momentum instead of burrow, if we use pendulums with gravity, it also helps to have weapons and creatures to throw in from the other side so we can balance quanta
--------------------------------------------------
As for other cards from propaganda bonus:
-3 lobotomizers - this is a very important card for fractal decks and others as it wipes out problems - momentum, butterfly effects, nymphs, firefly queens, creature abilities of all sorts really.
-2 enchant artifacts - we are understocked considering the amount of butterfly effects etc out there, last round we tried to use them in 3 decks and had to remove 3 because there wasn't enough to go around
-1 vampire stiletto - we have a huge gap in low quanta weapons, which are very handy for immolations or novas
-1 pandemonium I thought these things were more expensive, but at 3 quanta they're rainbow fuelable and combine potentially with our antimatter stall
-2 voodoo doll - 6 total might give us 2 deck options in the right circumstances
-2 nightfall -make them deal with the voodoo without grav pull, the big benefit of which is to make them ram damaging shields and lessen deckout potential for voodoo decks
-1 holy flash - fits in a rainbow along with voodoos, can be handy to have one, also supports our wounded other creatures or in the worst case, heals our main hp, I'm thinking of voodoo's in rainbows being anti-mass CC, anti-weapon (with BBs) and with holy flash a source of quick damage

But if there are no 12 card limit, 6 novas would be my first option.
--------------------------------------------
Discards:
6 earth pendulum
6 stone pillars
6 light pillars (I don't think we need 18 of those, especially when pendulums can cover it at least as well)

 

anything
blarg: