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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467808#msg467808
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2012, 06:51:41 pm »
If Rewind is cast on a combined Fertility, does it get destroyed?

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467811#msg467811
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2012, 06:58:24 pm »
What about Shard of Harmony? Could be a fitting name for Earth.
Absolutely. Great name. Fitting the element and the effect. Better than the other terms for sure.
+1 to this.
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Offline Schlonz

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467822#msg467822
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2012, 07:30:42 pm »
-1 from me for Harmony.

Harmony:
Quote
A pleasing combination of elements in a whole: color harmony; the order and harmony of the universe
from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/harmony

Sounds good .. at first. But who says that the result will be a pleasing combination. I still see contradictions between the shard types not leading to harmony but maybe also to very strange combinations (SoG+SoD+SoSac). Furthermore, Harmony sounds very  :life :life :life :life

So I still like Shard of Consolidation or Shard of Amalgamation better.

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467843#msg467843
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2012, 08:24:33 pm »
i like amalgamation

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467853#msg467853
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2012, 08:44:25 pm »
-1 from me for Harmony.

Harmony:
Quote
A pleasing combination of elements in a whole: color harmony; the order and harmony of the universe
from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/harmony

Sounds good .. at first. But who says that the result will be a pleasing combination. I still see contradictions between the shard types not leading to harmony but maybe also to very strange combinations (SoG+SoD+SoSac). Furthermore, Harmony sounds very  :life :life :life :life

So I still like Shard of Consolidation or Shard of Amalgamation better.
shards are named after virtues.  Your preferences, while more accurate in terms of what exactly is happening, are not virtues.

...Although, is 'void' a virtue?

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467872#msg467872
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2012, 09:16:28 pm »
Oh, I did not know about the virtue naming restriction.
Thanks for clarification.

However, when I think about it: Harmony & Fertility are also not a virtue.

7 Virtues are: Faith, Hope, Charity, Fortitude, Justice, Prudence and Temperance (or Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Diligence, Patience, Kindness, Humility)
Theological Virtues: Love, Hope and Faith
Cardinal Virtues: Prudence, Temperance, Courage and Justice
Heavenly Virtues: Faith, Hope, Charity, Fortitude, Justice, Temperance, Prudence
Bushido Virtues: Right decisions, Valor, Benevolence, Respect, Honesty, Honor, and Loyalty

So what fits best from this list?
Mabe Charity in the sense of self-sacrificial unlimited loving, held to be the ultimate perfection of the human spirit. But nooooo, that is too much  :light :light :light :light

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467879#msg467879
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2012, 09:32:05 pm »
i think there was a list somewhere for the shard making contest.

Edit:

here we go: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28847.0.html

and void isn't on there, so I guess the shards are no longer following the virtue naming scheme?

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467891#msg467891
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2012, 10:06:59 pm »
Perhaps if the stats increase varies based on the kinds of shards used?

SoB adds +3|+1 and a weaksauce ability
SoX adds -2|-2 and a more powerful ability
SoG adds +2|+2 and an average healing ability
SoP adds +1|+4, and so on...

Since the stats are based on the underlying shards themselves, the calculations for what the Shard Golem will have isn't so much a 'broad range of coding' but more of simple addition/subtraction.
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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg467897#msg467897
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2012, 10:29:20 pm »
Another thought on the name: How about "shard of accretion".

Accretion refers to either (1) the process by which planets are formed from matter joining together and also (2) the increase in size of a tectonic plate by addition of material along a convergent boundary.

Both very earthy  :earth and apt concepts
OK I didn't realise about the need for a 'virtuous' name when I posted this suggestion. Virtues that involve bringing together would include cooperation, congeniality, camaraderie and benevolence.

As has been mentioned,void has already stretched this rule to breaking point so maybe could also consider a 'dis-virtue' that suggests accumulating the skills from other shards. Shard of avarice comes to mind, though surely there are many other possibilities.

A poll on names would be fun.  Any chance the OP will add one to this thread?
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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg468010#msg468010
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2012, 03:07:24 am »
Oldtrees,

1 shard in hand and 1 photon in hand dont have the same benefit or opportunity cost. This is the ideal situation, you are talking about perfect balance, with equal cost / benefit ratio. If we expand the idea, any deck with, lets say, 30 cards, should have equal efficiency, which we know its not true. Cards are used to create decks, that have strategies, that may or may not work vs the opponent. Are there decks that photons are more useful than Shards? Sure, cremation decks, for example, or RoL Hope. But this is not a rule.

Photons = pathetic free creatures. If there is a Photon Golem card, that gives you a 5/5 creature for removing your 5 photons in hand, you may think its ok, although it would need a plus for the 6th card + cost.

Random cards = anything. If there is a Random Golem card, that gives you a creature for removing 5 random cards from your hand, what would it be to be playable? This could include 5 photons, or a bunch of cheap spells you could use for great benefit (lets say, SuperNova, Explosion, Heal, Rewind and Thunderbolt), or 5 dragons (you may or may not have the quanta to play for them). Would the 5/5 creature with a small plus be enough? Maybe for you, in your perfectly balanced situation, but in practice it wouldnt be played.

Now a Shard Golem. By Shard we mean cards that have powerful effects, arent expensive and can use any quanta, being extremely easy pay for them, with a SuperNova, or even 1-2 Quanta Towers. I have a way to draw 2 more cards, create 3 random cards, heal 16, have 3 permanent destruction and a BH, and stall for 2 turns, getting healing for damage. Will I spend all these and a 6th card, and pay quanta, just to have a 5/5 creature? If I wanted a Charger, for example, I would put a Charger card. This one and some quanta sources would be better, less unstable, and I would still have 1 card or 2 in hand.

I understand, quanta cost is to play the card, not a cost to have it in hand. If it was a Dragon Golem, I could even put a Silurian Dragon in the deck, while having no way to produce time quanta. The same does not apply to shards, they are cheap and paid with generic quanta.

Seriously, how would you balance this Shard Golem? 2 Shards for an Hematite Golem? Lol, who would use it? I cant think a good way to balance it, maybe you can help. I think, if for each shard I add a good value due to the shard opportunity cost, with 5 shards it would be monstrous, maybe a 20/20 with momentum and rage potion as bonus skill. But this would be abused, because its too cheap, in terms of quanta, and still can be TUed. If we stop adding value to each shard, lets say, beyond 2, this would still be a just ok creature with a 3 (or more) cards cost, which makes me remember, why not just add Destroyer (or anything good and cheap enough)? If we consider this can 'absorb' any number of shards 1-7, theres no way to balance, it will be broken, or just a dead card.

Again, just to say my very own opinion, this shard invasion is the worst thing that could happen to Elements. But this idea, in particular, is so bad that I really cant understand why zanz is even considering it.

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg468013#msg468013
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2012, 03:19:54 am »
Cards that combine with other cards has been done before. (Chimera) This is basically the same concept reapplied to the hand - in theory a hand-based chimera would get lower benefits than a field based Chimera. While Shard Golem could be powerful, you'd also have to stuff your hand full of shards and not play them (whereas the 7 cards you're holding back might be much more useful on the actual field.) The pieces (shards in this case) could be balanced accordingly with other cards to give it a decent powerlevel solo but not OP with a 7-shard setup through actually testing the buffs given by each shard within the trainer.

(Note : Balance is not always perfect, and in theory it's unlikely to have a permanent 'perfect' balance for all cards as long as new factors are being introduced in the game - new cards will interact with each other in different ways. Instosis is a good example of this.)

Quote
Again, just to say my very own opinion, this shard invasion is the worst thing that could happen to Elements. But this idea, in particular, is so bad that I really cant understand why zanz is even considering it.
I disagree. Shards do have their good points (such as being the 'mutable' archetype of other, expanding other's depth and theme, and representing the ability for Elementals to use generic items but responding more accurately to ones attuned to them.) but Zanz's attempt to complete the 12 shards suffered from bad execution and design. I'd like to linkthis post here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35191.msg496850#msg496850).

Quote
Overall, shard design seems to have suffered badly from the same reason you can't simply create a 12-card idea series without taking your time or being dedicated to the mechanics - some ideas in the series are inevitably lower quality than the best ideas in the series, and as a result drag the group down as a whole since people generally seem to judge the quality of such cards based on how well the series as a whole does or just ignore the series expecting 12 carbon copies of the same thing. (Both views are generally inaccurate and more common than some may think. It seems Zanz tried to avoid the second problem but forgot to avoid the first one.  From what I've seen in card design, it usually a lot better to release series cards gradually so each develop their own mechanic and 'taste' of sorts, so to speak.)
Just my 2  :electrum .

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Re: Shard of Fertility https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37247.msg468015#msg468015
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2012, 03:25:49 am »
Two points based on some of the most recent comments:

1) What about Shard of Might for a name?  Earth is strong and... mighty?  Shard of fortitude or strength could also work.
2) If you cast twin universe on a shard golem, it wouldn't be the same size, would it?  It should check the shards you have in your hand again and size itself based on that, in exactly the same way that twinning a chimera doesn't give you a second giant chimera.

 

blarg: