Post by: Higurashi on June 07, 2013, 04:48:40 pm
Nod at Oni.
A little backstory for you all. I've been searching for the perfect rush for HB's for a long time now. I started with the fastest ones around (My Balls can go Boom! with SoB) and even rushbows with a bit of defence. I've never really used Shrieker rushes much, but I suddenly had the idea to try one with two Auburns in it because my offence was getting demolished and SoB's made HB's draw too much CC. To my surprise, I got a ton of 6 ttw's and lots of ups from spins. Getting two per HB was not that uncommon. I was thrilled: HB's were worth farming again!
After a LOT of testing, I realised something rather mean and altogether bully-like. Diamond Shield against mostly unupped offence is disgustingly effective. In many cases it blocks 70-90% of most HB's offence for most of the (short) games. With Auburns I was losing against rushes because of their high cost, one turn delay to use, and limited targeting to one creature at a time. I was able to BB things like Maxwell's, yes, but those didn't cause me half as many losses, and Shriekers can also burrow. That's half the reason I chose this deck over any other.
I'm winning upgrades at 6-8 turns per game and I'm winning 90%-ish of games. I think I might be making more electrum than I ever have before. It feels odd to consistently win upgrades with one of the fastest decks around since the beginning of time, but also very satisfying.
Upgrade order:
- Titanium Shields
5 pillars (for a good chance of drawing one turn 1)
Short Sword (combined with the previous step allows for random turn 1 Longswords)
5 pillars (now we'll be getting lots of turn 1 and 2 Graboids)
Graboids (they'll come into play more often than all your Shriekers)
5 pillars (helps you pump out the Shriekers mid-game)
Shriekers
The only variation I really like aims for more CC-resistance and bypassing Wings. It ends up using the exact same total amount of quanta and is good if you're running into a lot of CC in Silver at the moment.
Upgrade order is the same with the Golems before the second batch of 5 pillars. Dragons last.
Post by: Zso_Zso on June 07, 2013, 05:24:40 pm
Post by: Leodip on June 07, 2013, 07:24:21 pm
Post by: Dopha on June 07, 2013, 07:34:36 pm
I was looking for some good Bronze/Silver rushes, and here I am, wondering if this would work against Bronze. I'm looking for SoSacs, and thus the low league of the arena is better, but I can't use a control because if I were to lose one game, I'd have lost at least 8 minutes of playing. Sooo, does it work in Bronze?
Probably, Bronze is just too easy
Post by: Leodip on June 07, 2013, 07:37:20 pm
Thought so, but I'm quite short on money lately, even though this'd work awesomely against AI4 to get money back, too.I was looking for some good Bronze/Silver rushes, and here I am, wondering if this would work against Bronze. I'm looking for SoSacs, and thus the low league of the arena is better, but I can't use a control because if I were to lose one game, I'd have lost at least 8 minutes of playing. Sooo, does it work in Bronze?
Probably, Bronze is just too easy
Post by: Dopha on June 07, 2013, 07:39:44 pm
If you need some :electrum , AI4 isn't your best choiceThought so, but I'm quite short on money lately, even though this'd work awesomely against AI4 to get money back, too.I was looking for some good Bronze/Silver rushes, and here I am, wondering if this would work against Bronze. I'm looking for SoSacs, and thus the low league of the arena is better, but I can't use a control because if I were to lose one game, I'd have lost at least 8 minutes of playing. Sooo, does it work in Bronze?
Probably, Bronze is just too easy
Post by: Higurashi on June 07, 2013, 07:44:45 pm
Post by: Leodip on June 07, 2013, 07:53:33 pm
If you need some :electrum , AI4 isn't your best choiceThought so, but I'm quite short on money lately, even though this'd work awesomely against AI4 to get money back, too.I was looking for some good Bronze/Silver rushes, and here I am, wondering if this would work against Bronze. I'm looking for SoSacs, and thus the low league of the arena is better, but I can't use a control because if I were to lose one game, I'd have lost at least 8 minutes of playing. Sooo, does it work in Bronze?
Probably, Bronze is just too easy
Post by: Higurashi on June 20, 2013, 01:24:04 am
Post by: Pyrodinium on June 20, 2013, 03:16:09 am
The best thing about this deck is that I don't need to think too much to use it effectively.
Post by: andretimpa on June 20, 2013, 04:23:21 am
I couldn't resist
Post by: Higurashi on June 20, 2013, 05:01:21 am
Post by: Pyrodinium on July 03, 2013, 02:43:58 am
Extremely fast deck, it wins in 5 turns in AI3 (even faster than my AI3 Death deck) and around 8-9 (although I went to 17 turns due to Wings one time) in AI4.
It's weak against Dimensional Shields and Wings (the AI can get tough creatures like Dragons by the time the shields dissolve) and the early dropped Fire Buckler or Thorn Carapace. Quite frustrating (but winnable) to use against Procrastination, Fog Shield and Dusk Mantle. CC can be avoided by burrowing your creatures.
I'll probably test this at the arena soon.
Post by: serprex on July 27, 2013, 01:39:09 am
I've found swapping a Shrieker for an Auburn Nymph to be effective. I only have one so I can't test whether any more would be bad, but petrification has saved me many times
Post by: Leodip on July 27, 2013, 08:40:29 am
If you want to keep stats, the software can be found here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50091.msg1083114.html#msg1083114).
Post by: serprex on July 27, 2013, 04:42:28 pm
Winrate 0.857142857142857
Average TTW 8.57142857142857
The stats are stated less than they should be, as TPH is very high for this deck but the spreadsheet doesn't take TPH into account for UEI. This deck's TPH is above 360, closer to 400. This may be offset by the lack of current HP field, since this deck will often outrush AI4 rushes with little life to spare
Anyways, these stats are likely inflated since I never ran into Wings, only ran into Dim Shield once (that's the 10ttw), Antimatter didn't kill me. The losses were to empathic healing and a bad draw against Wardens. This was with the nymph modification, but it never played much of a role in these rather quick games (I did petrify an Amethyst Dragon at one point, the game would've still been won since the only other creature the AI drew was a Lava Golem)
So, with 20 straight forward games: 90% winrate and 8.3ttw. 4834 UEI
1 9
1 8
1 9
1 8
1 9
1 9
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 6
1 10
0 12
1 7
0 11
1 9
1 8
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 7
1 8
1 9
1 8
1 9
1 9
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 6
1 10
0 12
1 7
0 11
1 9
1 8
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 7
Post by: Leodip on July 27, 2013, 05:01:40 pm
After 14 games numbers aligned:TBH, it takes that in consideration. There's a slot to write TPH. By default it is 333, but it is editable.
Winrate 0.857142857142857
Average TTW 8.57142857142857
The stats are stated less than they should be, as TPH is very high for this deck but the spreadsheet doesn't take TPH into account for UEI. This deck's TPH is above 360, closer to 400. This may be offset by the lack of current HP field, since this deck will often outrush AI4 rushes with little life to spare
Anyways, these stats are likely inflated since I never ran into Wings, only ran into Dim Shield once (that's the 10ttw), Antimatter didn't kill me. The losses were to empathic healing and a bad draw against Wardens. This was with the nymph modification, but it never played much of a role in these rather quick games (I did petrify an Amethyst Dragon at one point, the game would've still been won since the only other creature the AI drew was a Lava Golem)
So, with 20 straight forward games: 90% winrate and 8.3ttw. 4834 UEI1 9
1 8
1 9
1 8
1 9
1 9
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 6
1 10
0 12
1 7
0 11
1 9
1 8
1 8
1 7
1 7
1 7
This is for AI4, I guess, right?
Post by: Bootsza on July 27, 2013, 05:18:00 pm
If someone who's still playing this, or Higs himself, would be kind enough to play some games with it for stats, it could be possible to calculate the UEI and mathematify the gains to compare it to other FG farmers and stuff.
If you want to keep stats, the software can be found here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50091.msg1083114.html#msg1083114).
What level would you like a test for?
Post by: serprex on July 27, 2013, 05:19:25 pm
Yes, AI4
Post by: Leodip on July 27, 2013, 05:37:19 pm
I loaded StatKeeper in Google docs. When I changed TPH, UEI values didn't changeOh, right, thanks for making me notice, that's because when I wrote the spreadsheet I wrote the semplified formula and kept 333 as data.
Yes, AI4
I'll do a slight change to make it fit (BTW, it'll be a pretty rough one, even though it works, I'll, eventually, fix it with my next update on it). Check back on that topic in 10 minutes and you should find it.
@Bootsza, the deck is meant for AI4, so, if you want to, it should be tested in AI4. Though, TBH, this isn't for me, I just wanted to provide some reliable stats to Higurashi.
Post by: serprex on July 27, 2013, 06:45:39 pm
Post by: Leodip on July 28, 2013, 09:57:57 am
Your Offence is Now Diamonds achieves ~5800UEI if one plays at 400TPH, which isn't difficult with this deck (One could easily follow audiobooks while grinding)Yeah, that would be the case if I found some nice audiobooks in Italian, lol.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 28, 2013, 03:33:47 pm
Great deck. Feels pretty much just like playing AI3.
Post by: Leodip on July 28, 2013, 04:27:03 pm
Post by: Silux on July 29, 2013, 01:32:27 pm
I'm going to try this after i get enough money to have at least most of it upped.
For the price you are paying shriekers, adding two more you get a stone dragon, which is way more thouger and bypasses wings.
Protect artifact could improve win rate by not having the shield destroyed or stolen:)
edit; mistaken dragon power
Post by: serprex on July 29, 2013, 02:53:06 pm
But yes, working in Dragons helps vs the nearly auto quit Wings and damage CC. Worse vs Antimatter
Post by: Silux on July 29, 2013, 04:36:34 pm
Post by: Silux on July 29, 2013, 05:12:57 pm
10 would have lost without dragons
lost to wings
!lost no shield, would have won with upped pillars
10 would have lost without dragons
lost shield up but shriekers kept dieing against 2 bloodsuckers, oppenent had dusk.burrowing ineffective
lost aquaofuze. permafrost shield and explosion
!lost but would have won with upped shriekers artic dragon dealt 70 damage
8 two shiekers left in hand no shield
lost to wings
!lost no shield, would have won with upped pillars
10 would have lost without dragons
lost shield up but shriekers kept dieing against 2 bloodsuckers, oppenent had dusk.burrowing ineffective
lost aquaofuze. permafrost shield and explosion
!lost but would have won with upped shriekers artic dragon dealt 70 damage
8 two shiekers left in hand no shield
deck used
I will resume testing after gaining enough to have at least 2/3 upped
Post by: Bootsza on July 30, 2013, 09:38:26 am
W: 80 L: 20 W%: 80.00% TTW: 8.175 EM: 0/75 EM%: 0%
It does what was advertised. It outrushes a lot of AI4. The shield is super fun in how it stops so much at that level. Quick and easy to play. I have not worked out how much I made during the test but the money was flying in. ColourlessGreen's description of "it feels like playing AI3" is very accurate. Not a single EM though...
Decks I lost to in the spoiler:
Shadcord
Airisa
Shadtis
Aethra
Vittis
Vittis
Mores
Pyriel
Aritis
Dissa
Pyrra
Aquaes
Shaderic
Teres
Vitofuse
Aquarius
Pyreric
Mascord
Distis
Terow
Airisa
Shadtis
Aethra
Vittis
Vittis
Mores
Pyriel
Aritis
Dissa
Pyrra
Aquaes
Shaderic
Teres
Vitofuse
Aquarius
Pyreric
Mascord
Distis
Terow
Post by: Blacksmith on July 30, 2013, 12:47:23 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 30, 2013, 03:20:47 pm
This deck looks interesting and I'm gonna try it but first I would like have some more accurate status when it comes to ai4 upped drop rate.
7.85% (i.e. one in 12-13 wins) per 700
In addition to the AI4 study, see UEI (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50033.0.html) for some discussion on how those spins translate into overall efficiency.
edit: Incidentally, since there's people testing here, any of you who have more than 50-game-long tests completed are welcomed and encouraged to post them in the AI4 stats thread. Also, if you've been recording results from spins, please feel free to post any 20-win-or-longer results from spins to be included in the spin chance portion of the study.
edit2: Fixed games->wins typo.
Post by: Bootsza on July 30, 2013, 04:19:32 pm
I had 8 upped wins in my test of 100. Slightly below that but close enough.
Post by: serprex on July 30, 2013, 05:37:41 pm
Post by: Silux on August 02, 2013, 03:12:49 pm
TTW 7.23 no EM
435 net gain before spins 20.7 average gain
win rate 0.857
53 tests
0.7924 win rate
6.9 ttw
0 em
32 tests
0.625 win rate
5.125 ttw
0 em rate
=
106test
0.754 win rate
6.42 average TTW
0%em rate
Post by: Silux on August 05, 2013, 02:11:22 pm
44tests TTW;6.52, winning rate;79%
-4 shriekers
+2stone dragon
+2steel golem
23
not so different, but seems to be faster
179 tests TTW 5.972 winning rate 70.9% EM 0%
raw gain after spins 13.93 :electrum/game
25,3 wins per hour