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finkel

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg75329#msg75329
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2010, 07:28:20 pm »
I've beaten dream catcher 7/7 times now O.o
Play as many rays as you can, since the worst he can do is antimater them. A lobo/electrocuter is a must before playing any dragons, otherwise he'll antimatter them. A quantum tower helps too, but either way after a few turns he'll be moving quanta around mostly. Fractal rays, play at least 5, so the discord can't hit, then wait for the hope, and that's it. An electrocuter will help tremendously with the annoying skill creatures. I've been lucky enough to draw one when I needed it 4 out of those 7 games, but I won one of them without drawing it until I had 17 cards left.

Seravy

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg83246#msg83246
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2010, 09:24:25 pm »
hmm...it seems I'm not yet banned...I knew I'll end up coming back, that's why I asked for one, lol
might as well answer some questions, then.

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Meecow/JoshK: how do you respond when Rainbow plays an Eagle's Eye and/or uses your own Electricutor to render your RoL's useless and/or dead?
Play more fractals. Sooner or later, he will switch the stolen Elec with the Eagle Eye, so you don't need to worry about the field filling up with lobo-ed rays.
The deck has 6 fractals (yes, the sixth one is very important against Rainbow, with only five, losses are much more common), so you can afford playing the first 3-4 fractals on rays, and only play the fifth one on the dragon.
While Rainbow is "easy" it is somewhat more risky than others, unfortunately :
-An early forest spirit, if you can't lobo it, is sometimes able to kill your before you win. Especially if your rays get killed in large numbers and you don't draw enough fractals, or have a slower, somewhat clogged hand, and can only produce 4-5 rays per fractal
-Pillar destruction, although rarely, but might prevent you from playing your fractals if you get an uneven draw (not enough pillars in the middle of the deck). Electrocutors are nice extra permanents to protect your lands with, play all of them when you can.
-If your dragon is coming late (in the last 5-6 cards for example), forest spirits outgrow the shield and you lose
-If you miscalculate, or are impatient and play too many dragons too early, miracles can drag out the match and forest spirits or deck out is the result.
-Not drawing enough fractals against his creature removal can also result in a loss, but with 6 of them, that is rare. With 5, it's pretty common, and with 4, Rainbow is almost impossible (or at least with my strategy of playing more rays for him to destroy)
Overall, Rainbow has the highest chance of getting a loss, but the win rate is still above 50%. If you really, really want to maximize efficiency, skipping him can be considered : the chance of losing is a bit high, the games are usually longer than usual and need more attention, and the chance of winning cards is relative low against him too.

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I've beaten dream catcher 7/7 times now O.o
You must have been really lucky.

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Play as many rays as you can, since the worst he can do is antimater them.
Very often I couldn't play a single fractal in the entire game...Discord kept moving my aether and light quanta into other elements for 10 turns straight and I never reached 8 aether and 7 light in time...and individual rays get killed (shockwave+thunderbolt), leaving you with no fractal target, so playing them before fractal is dangerous.
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A quantum tower helps too, but either way after a few turns he'll be moving quanta around mostly.
"few" was at least 5-6 for me, which is enough to lose the game even to 2-3 damage creatures as he has many of them.
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An electrocuter will help tremendously with the annoying skill creatures.
There was a game where the AI forgot to destroy it, but usually it gets destroyed before you can even start using it. Butterfly effect can be used instantly, so it wins out against Elec.

At first, I though Dream Catcher is easy too, but after losing 80% of the games, I reconsidered.

Oh...and for the troll :
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Hey! Why keep posting decks of the same concept again and again?
I cannot count how many time it had been posted.
As long as the card pool is this limited, and gods are this powerful, the number of decks with a good win rate will be also very limited.
You can either play this for speed farming, a time rainbow for score/wins, or an entropy rainbow for something in-between : Faster, but a bit more losses than time rainbow and much higher luck factor.

All the other decks are either
-slow with a much lower win rate than time rainbow, so Time Rainbow is clearly superior to them.
-fast, with a horrible win rate, like less than 50% even on the gods they are supposed to be "good against"
-Specifically working against a certain god only, or a very few of them, only useful for Oracle predictions
-or are variations of the three decks that work.

Until the game gets 200 new cards, or the gods get nerfed, you'll see tons of variations of the same 3 decks, because there really is nothing better.
Even in card games having 1000+ cards to build deck from, only a limited number of decks are tournament level, and only a very few (2-3) are top tier, so many players play those same decks, and their variations. Elements have a much smaller card pool, and also spread around in much more colors, which you can only have 2-3 of in your deck if you want to keep the deck stable in quanta generation, unless you go rainbow and use all 12.

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Lol what do you expect. You posted a RoL-Hope deck not in the spirit of RoL-Hope. People can and will criticize the areas that your anti FG deckbuilding inexperience surfaces in.
The spirit of the deck...are we playing Yugioh here or what? Let's believe in the heart of the cards, guys...The Blue Eyes White Dragon said he won't listen to our orders if he isn't included in a control deck suitable to his greatness, lol

More seriously, you can optimize decks for :
-Win rate overall (Time Rainbow wins here by a lot, so this place is taken)
-Win rate against certain opponents (You don't know the opponent in advance, unless you use Oracle, so these decks have a limited use)
-Electrum gained per hour. (I wanted to optimize for this, as this seems what ROL/Hope can be the best at, and where we don't have a better deck yet.)
-Score gained per hour. (Top 50 is better for that than false gods...high win rate false god farmers are too slow, and top50 farm decks boost score gain there by a lot)

Out of this, optimizing for electrum/hour seems the best choice, regardless of what the spirit of the deck otherwise is.
If I were to optimize for control (is that the spirit of the deck, even?), I'd end up with a 60 card deck that also includes time element, hourglasses (drawing is essential for control), sundials(more stalling is necessary in a larger deck), 6 shards(more healing is also necessary because the deck is much slower now) , maybe even phase shields (for additional protection...control decks need to go for 100% protection). As three elements are not too stable, and fractal costs a lot of aether, which is hard to get using a time mark (absolutely necessary for hourglasses), I'd then go for rainbow, which means that I have to take fractals out. Without fractals the rest of the combo is useless, so they go out as well...and I end up with a standard time rainbow after adding in the replacement cards.
So let's not optimize this for control...we have a superior control deck already.

Whoa...I wasted another hour making a forum post again....I really need to stop doing this.

Seravy has spoken...commoners are permitted to think whatever they want about his wisdom. He doesn't care about them anymore :P

unionruler

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg83700#msg83700
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2010, 07:26:37 am »
More seriously, you can optimize decks for :
-Electrum gained per hour. (I wanted to optimize for this, as this seems what ROL/Hope can be the best at, and where we don't have a better deck yet.)
-Score gained per hour. (Top 50 is better for that than false gods...high win rate false god farmers are too slow, and top50 farm decks boost score gain there by a lot)
Yes RoL-Hope is best at electrum gained per hour, but I'm quite sure there are at least 2 variations of RoL-Hope that surpass your variation at that. Reason being you do quit a lot more games than is necessary with RoL-Hope, which you cite the /time part for, but from my own experience optimizing for a slightly greater amount of control would gain you the most electrum per hour. NOT as much as my deck is oriented towards that, BUT somewhere nearer.

As to score gain per hour, Top50 USED to be better than false gods. However, when you are dealing with a field of 1/3 RoL-Hope, 1/3 Rainbow and 1/3 strange stuff people experiment with nowadays (notably denial strats and antimatter decks) + farms, the difference exists, but is rather insignificant. Reason being you can't fight that many strategies at once and EM all the time.

...and I end up with a standard time rainbow after adding in the replacement cards.
So let's not optimize this for control...we have a superior control deck already.
I think anyone who followed this thread closely would know that this isn't the point of the argument. The opportunity cost of time rainbows are far too high in terms of electrum per hour to actually consider them. Factually speaking, the difference in the extent of control you get with a time rainbow as opposed to the most control based RoL-Hope is less than most people make it out to be. Reason being RoL-Hope does damage control, not creature control, and so people tend to think of it as less precise when it really is rather efficient.

midg3333

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg83820#msg83820
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2010, 12:21:11 pm »
so, i saw this post and decided to try it out. I added 2 shards in, making it a 32 card deck with a few less upgrades than the one in the OP. Went to fight an FG and the first one i got was obliterator. I got amazingly lucky because i got an early electrocutor and he drew no pulvy till the very end, so he wasted all his momentums on 1 creature while i lobod it over and over, and I ended up getting an EM and winning a card. Next, i get put up against scorpio, but luckily i got an amazing hand and ended up winning (although he would have killed me 2 turns later with poison), and won a card. Then, i go up against osiris, get an early lobo and easily win. I love my luck. Overall, i like the deck  :D

$$$man

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg83854#msg83854
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2010, 01:19:38 pm »
my recommendations would be
-1 fractal
-1 electrocuter
-1 hope
+3 Sog

and this pretty much changes the deck but
-2 light dragon
+3 archangel
+1 improved miracle

and you now have a 32 card variant which i use for god farming :D

Pantheon

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg85181#msg85181
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2010, 08:30:57 pm »
This is the most well thought out and described deck i've used so far, with quite a low entry cost (only need 6-10 upped cards, the rest is efficiency) - Kudos to the OP for writing out detailed but to-the-point descriptions. You also seem to know a lot about card game theory, something it seems a lot of elements players lack. Being a magic player for 14 years has tought me a lot about it too.

Yes RoL-Hope is best at electrum gained per hour, but I'm quite sure there are at least 2 variations of RoL-Hope that surpass your variation at that. Reason being you do quit a lot more games than is necessary with RoL-Hope, which you cite the /time part for, but from my own experience optimizing for a slightly greater amount of control would gain you the most electrum per hour. NOT as much as my deck is oriented towards that, BUT somewhere nearer.

In the light of my comment above regarding card game theory, can you please list the differences in cards, strategy and tactics in those 2 other variants you concider better? Why are they "better", and what are they "better" at?

Kurohami

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg85287#msg85287
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2010, 10:41:40 pm »
The fractal ROL deck is pretty brilliant in that it's the first non-rainbow FG killer with a relatively consistent win rate, but I'd say there are better versions of it out there than this one. As for essence doubting the result of the deck against Rainbow, I'd say you should really try it out, perhaps using a better version of it though. Rainbow is indeed a LOT easier with this deck than with Rainbow. You were talking about how rainbow would still the lobo, but that doesn't matter, lobotomizing 1 ray per turn is not enough to render this deck helpless, and I would usually not play the lobo if I'm up against rainbow since I would end up with a lot of useless creature on the field. Eagle's eye is not a problem because it will remove the ray to open up slots for new ones, and it will target dragons once you get one out. The only thing you gotta watch out for is his miracles, which may make you deck out if he's lucky, timing the the summoning of the dragon usually solves that problem.

heffroncm

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg91768#msg91768
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2010, 10:52:31 pm »
Hi folks, new to Elements.  I wanted to thank Seravy for posting this thread.  Of a few concepts I've tried out that purported to be low cost FG farmers, this is the first that performed anywhere near the claims.  The entry cost for a new player was also surprisingly low.  It almost seems wrong that a deck with 6 upgrades and 3 rares should be able to perform this well when other beginner FG decks recquire similar investments and offer slower, more difficult rewards.

In short, thanks for a great deck.

For others wanting to use this deck as a springboard into FG farming, I've consolidated the tips that helped me the most.  Nothing really new, just bits I've read in this thread and others referencing it.

You can start off with FGs as soon as you have the 3 Lobotomizers and 6 Ray of Lights (upgraded Photons).  Use the deck in the original post, replacing the Shard of Gratitude with another Aether Pillar.
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5la 5la 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61u 61u 61u 622 622 622 622 622 622 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jpAs you amass money, upgrade order is crucial.  You'll see the biggest returns in win speed and win % by upgrading your Lobotomizers to Electrocutors.

After upgrading your Lobotomizers, get three Shards of Gratitude.  You'll need to farm the basic card, a Shard with a green-colored background, from Top50.  You'll be replacing a Hope, a Fractal, and an Aether Pillar with these three.  The Shards will help you attain Elemental Mastery a fair amount of the time against easier FGs, and more importanlty move Morte and Scorpio from the "ditch" list to the "worth attempting" list.
Code: [Select]
5la 5la 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 80e 80e 80eNext upgrade your Dragons.  This lets you pack more damage on the field.  You only have room for 23 creatures on the field, and you'll be using every slot in most games.

This is as far as I have taken the deck at this time, and really seems like as far as you need to go.  Upgraded Fractals and Pillars would add some speed and reliability, but I have yet to see a situation where the extra few Aether quanta would have turned a loss into a win.  Hopes are a trade off: the become slightly more powerful, but also become slightly more expensive.
A few questions for the more experienced:

Is there anything this sort of deck can do about Fire Shield?  At current, it's a scoop as soon as I see one hit the table.  For FGs they only show up in Octane's deck, who is a ditch anyway.  The pain comes when I want to do some Top50s for rares to build other decks with.  I'd hate to go about upgrading another deck solely for Top50 >.<

This thread mentions other decks of this same sort which are "better."  In the forum searching I've had the patience for, I'm mostly finding decks that look very similar.  This deck just seems more streamlined than the other decks I've seen built around Ray of Light and Hope.

sSethia

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg91815#msg91815
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2010, 11:42:47 pm »
Is there anything this sort of deck can do about Fire Shield?  At current, it's a scoop as soon as I see one hit the table.  For FGs they only show up in Octane's deck, who is a ditch anyway.
Fire Shields also show up reliably early when facing Hermes, but he is also a "ditch".

An unupgraded deck can easily farm the Top 50 too. If you're having trouble farming the Top 50, I suggest you take a look at this deck (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5396.msg60749.html). Just add a few more gravity pillars and change your mark to Aether.

heffroncm

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg91886#msg91886
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2010, 12:36:13 am »
Didn't see them listed under Hermes when I wiki'd the ditches :-D

I'm not having any trouble with Top50, just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  The deck is entertaining, I've always been a "combo" player in CCGs, and it actually does really well in Top50 already.  Fire Shield just shuts it down absolutely, and there doesn't seem to be anything Aether / Light can do about it.

dzanis

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg94965#msg94965
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2010, 09:25:01 am »

Would adding Lucefirin to the deck help against all gods that lobotomize your rays and also to make shield stronger?!

and thanks for the deck, it is great.

Krzysiek K.

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Re: Turbo-speed false god farming https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6546.msg94981#msg94981
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2010, 10:44:55 am »
Would adding Lucefirin to the deck help against all gods that lobotomize your rays and also to make shield stronger?!
I've seen some people using it and tried it myself. In my games, it sometimes helped a bit and shining dragons are nice addition, but the improvement wasn't dramatic for me - fractaling single photon usually gave comparable results (unless I waited a bit more for more lobotomized photons, while letting in more damage). Also I think single Luciferin in the deck would be unreliable and two of them would mean quite a lot of dead cards in most common situations, so I personally prefer to go without them.

 

blarg: