Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

[Delerium76]

Seravy, I just want to say I'm sorry about how many people keep giving you so much shit for this deck. It works well, its fast and its actually pretty cheap to get. I'm sure you know this, but those who said otherwise are wrong (they probably never even tried this deck).

I agree with Delerium about Dream catcher, I don't really have any luck vs him. He drains your quanta with black hole and pests, usually gets discord out quickly, destroys pillars, kills a lot of your rays with shock wave/rage potion, etc. I don't have all my pillars upgraded yet though, so that might make a significant difference.

Also Celidion, think about Miracle a little bit more. You can only cast it if you have 12 light quanta and be very low on life for it to be useful. Most of the time with this deck set up you can get your rays out and a hope pretty quick. There of course may be a few uses for miracle, but on balance it will decrease your win rates because you will have a wasted spot in your hand. It means you are less likely to have a ray, tower, hope, fractal all of which are more important to get out quickly pretty much all the time. If you are taking so much damage so quickly that you would need to use the miracle you're probably already dead and should have given up and moved to the next game already.

Considering you agreed with me about my comment, I assume you didn't direct your first paragraph towards me, but I do feel like I should give proper credit to this deck, as I absolutely love it.  I am nearly fully upgraded (I'm missing two elect cause I can't seem to get them to drop in lob or elec form) and it plays just like the OP says it does.  It has just one purpose, fast upgraded card/electrum farming, and it does it very well, so don't judge it if you are trying to use it for a different purpose.

[Nume]

The nice thing about dream catcher is that his creatures are all incredibly weak, so once you get one fractal its almost an auto win. There is very little he can do to stop you. Even if he gets a discord, if I have at least 3-4 towers I still play him because I can still get a fractal within a few turns generally and once I do I basically win.

[Essence]

I also have a much better win rate (80%) vs Ferox.  You just have to stop FractalingRoLs  once you get 12 Rays and concentrate entirely on pumping out 12 Dragons over 13 turns.  He has to get 6+ Bonds to overcome that kind of damage.

[Seravy]

I also have a much better win rate (80%) vs Ferox.  You just have to stop FractalingRoLs  once you get 12 Rays and concentrate entirely on pumping out 12 Dragons over 13 turns.  He has to get 6+ Bonds to overcome that kind of damage.

Ok, I've taken a look at his deck in the wiki.

There are 51 cards in his deck, 6 of them Feral Bonds. There is also a Jade Shield (-2 damage per dragon) and a Jade Staff (+5 healing), the rest is unimportant.
With 6 Bonds out of 51 cards, he draws a bond once every 8.5 cards on average. He draws 2 cards per turn, so that means 1 bond per 4.25 turns.
His starting hand has cards too, equaling 3 turns worth of cards drawn.
Overall, the number of bonds he has in play on average is (turn number+3)/4.25.

With 12 rays out, you have 11 space left for dragons.
11 dragons do 110 damage per turn over a Jade Shield. (He only has one in 51 cards, so he might not always draw it, but in about 60-70% of the games will, sooner or later)
Elec also does 3 damage, so your maximum damage output is 113.
5 bonds with a full field of creatures (we can safely assume he will get 23 creatures out by the time you finish playing the dragons) is 115 healing, more than our maximum damage output, and this is without a Jade Staff.
Playing the 11 dragons takes 12 turns, and it's safe to assume it also takes at least 6-8 turns to play the 12 rays and your hope : You have to fractal at least twice for that, and unless you drew 3+ towers, each fractal takes a minimum of 3 turns (If you play Elec, it is more)...plus you also need to draw those fractals, and a hope.

Overall, if it takes 18-20 turns, by the time you have those 11 dragons out, Ferox will have  (18+3)/4.25=4.94 to (20+3)/4.25=5.41 Bonds out, equaling or slightly going over the damage you cause.
If every game plays out according to the average scenario, losing would be certain, but of course it doesn't. Sometimes the number of Bonds are fewer, or he fails to draw a Jade Shield, and then you'll win. Pretty often you won't have a dragon in hand on turn 8-10 when you can play it, however, and in worst-case scenarios, they can be in the last 5-10 cards, in which case you lose almost certainly.

To summarize, if you have a 80% win rate, you were probably very lucky with him so far. Especially considering some of the games are usually lost to his early rushes, because he plays creatures very fast.

[Delerium76]

The nice thing about dream catcher is that his creatures are all incredibly weak, so once you get one fractal its almost an auto win. There is very little he can do to stop you. Even if he gets a discord, if I have at least 3-4 towers I still play him because I can still get a fractal within a few turns generally and once I do I basically win.

The problem is this is a deck designed to limit the amount of late game losses, and with dream catchers deck, there's too many problems that can cause a loss late game.  He destroys your elects, reverses the damage on your attackers, and scrambles your quantum.  Lets say you get a fractal off, put hope out, with 7-8 rays.  Then you put out a lob, which he destroys, and he puts out a nymph.  Within 3-4 turns, you will start doing negative damage to him due to the nymph reversing your ray's attack (even worse on dragons).  In order to do a dragon rush, you really need to get his life below 100 at a very minimum but more realistically around 70-80, due to hand size and only being able to cast fractal once a turn.  He almost always gets a discord out by turn 3, many times on the first turn. That alone sets your growth back by quite a few extra turns until the other quantum pools fill up enough for you to get up to 8 aether quantum to fractal. by then, he's put out a nymph, or abomination/butterfly and is converting your creatures and destroying your aether towers. I can rarely even keep a elect out long enough to take care of the nymph.  That is a LONG list of things he can do to stop/slow you, which puts your win ratio against him low enough to not even be worth the time.  I suggest the OP does another test with this guy and records the win ratio, because I lose to this guy more than anyone else, and it's usually not a fast loss, but a slow time consuming one.


Also, while I do like this deck very much, I don't consider the testing method to be very accurate.  To truly test, play out every game, don't just skip ones that don't look promising.  I understand skipping is part of the deck's design, but it's not a proper way to test win ratios.  For testing purposes, bad draws should be a part of the win ratio, otherwise it's hard to compare between the false gods due to some gods being skipped more often and whatnot.  I believe any competent deck can win if you skip enough times to get a perfect draw while the opponent gets a really bad one.  It's just not a very accurate way of testing.

[smuglapse]

I also have a much better win rate (80%) vs Ferox.  You just have to stop FractalingRoLs  once you get 12 Rays and concentrate entirely on pumping out 12 Dragons over 13 turns.  He has to get 6+ Bonds to overcome that kind of damage.

This is why I usually don't play him:  10 RoLs only on the field
(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd73303/ferox)

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5lj 6qq 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 7k2 7k4 7k4 7k4 7k4 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i

[Seravy]

Also, while I do like this deck very much, I don't consider the testing method to be very accurate.  To truly test, play out every game, don't just skip ones that don't look promising.  I understand skipping is part of the deck's design, but it's not a proper way to test win ratios.  For testing purposes, bad draws should be a part of the win ratio, otherwise it's hard to compare between the false gods due to some gods being skipped more often and whatnot.  I believe any competent deck can win if you skip enough times to get a perfect draw while the opponent gets a really bad one.  It's just not a very accurate way of testing.

Overall win ratio is irrevelant for this deck.
If I play out every game, I can't test games won/hour because I'm wasting time on games I'm not supposed to play.
The purpose of the test was to
-find out how much electrum you can gain per hour
-find out which gods needs to be skipped in order to maximize that amount.
If you want a good win ratio, play another deck, or a variant of hope with shards. However, you'll get half or quarter of the electrum you can get that way, because you won't be skipping the long, time consuming games that might result in losses.

As for DreamCatcher, it's really random. I'll probably move it if I have more games played. Chaos Lord might be moved too, for similar reasons.

[ellak96]

Quick Question, what is a good replacement for lobotmizers in this deck?

[Delerium76]

Also, while I do like this deck very much, I don't consider the testing method to be very accurate.  To truly test, play out every game, don't just skip ones that don't look promising.  I understand skipping is part of the deck's design, but it's not a proper way to test win ratios.  For testing purposes, bad draws should be a part of the win ratio, otherwise it's hard to compare between the false gods due to some gods being skipped more often and whatnot.  I believe any competent deck can win if you skip enough times to get a perfect draw while the opponent gets a really bad one.  It's just not a very accurate way of testing.

Overall win ratio is irrevelant for this deck.
If I play out every game, I can't test games won/hour because I'm wasting time on games I'm not supposed to play.
The purpose of the test was to
-find out how much electrum you can gain per hour
-find out which gods needs to be skipped in order to maximize that amount.
If you want a good win ratio, play another deck, or a variant of hope with shards. However, you'll get half or quarter of the electrum you can get that way, because you won't be skipping the long, time consuming games that might result in losses.

As for DreamCatcher, it's really random. I'll probably move it if I have more games played. Chaos Lord might be moved too, for similar reasons.

I think your missing my point.  Yes I agree with the goals of the deck and that overall win ratio is irrelevant for this deck when it's being used, but to test which gods go on the "skip" list and which go on the "fight" list, thats where the win ratio becomes useful, and thats why I was commenting on skips during testing.  After testing for a win/loss ratio against each god, you can take those results and decide who to skip and who to play against, thus making the deck efficient towards wins/hour. Skipping the match is a personal decision you make based on your own ability to guess the outcome of the match based on your starting hand.  Not only that, at what point were the games skipped, right at the start, or 3-4 turns into the match?  What criteria determines skipping a match?  Do you skip everything but perfect hands or just those you know you will lose for sure?  See my point?

[Seravy]

Not only that, at what point were the games skipped, right at the start, or 3-4 turns into the match?  What criteria determines skipping a match?  Do you skip everything but perfect hands or just those you know you will lose for sure?  See my point?

Gods in the skip section are there because
-I've already played against them enough times to know they should be skipped (I've played them way before starting to record statistics (Morte, Gemini for example is in this category), the stats are from a single 4-5 hours of play session only)
-I've played against it a few times which confirmed my theory of why playing them is bad (Phoenix, Neptune)
-The god has cards in its deck that are impossible to handle with the deck anyway (Octane's Unstable Gas, Hermes's Fire Shield, Neptune's Flood, Graviton's Titan, Scorpio's Poison,etc)

There is an explanation on why to skip for every god in the skip section.

As for the when to skip question...anywhere from turn 1 to when it's obvious you can't win anymore. (skips after more than a few turns of playing were recorded as losses in the statistics)

Examples :
1.starting hand 3 fractals, 2 hopes, 1 tower, 1 rol, 1 elec.
This is playable, especially if you draw another tower, and play against a slower god. However, if your first 3 draws after this happen to be 2 more hopes and 1 fractal, and the god already played some big damage dealers or a large swarm of creatures, then it's time to quit.
2.starting hand 6 towers, 1 elec
This is also playable. If you don't manage to draw fractal, rol, or hope, you still have time to draw them. Even if you don't, it's a quick loss (the god will beat you down fast), not a slow one. Especially if you don't have a rol, you can target the one played by the false god if they played any.
3.starting hand 4 fractals, 2 hopes, 1 elec, 1 rol
This is not playable, skip on turn one, unless the opponent is a very slow one (Incarnate, Fire Queen). If the opponent is slow, you can fix up your hand by discarding extra copies of hopes first (and fractals if you need to).
4.starting hand without an elec, against Fire Queen, Elidnis, Osiris or Incarnate
Here, you give up only if you still don't have an elec when a pharaoh is in play (Osiris)
or still no elec and a slow start/suboptimal hand when the queen already has queens out and started filling the play area with creatures (Fire Queen)
or still no elec when creatures are already growing over your shield and/or your rays get loboed and there is no way to quickly finish the opponent with dragons (Elidnis)
or don't skip because you can win with holding rays in hand most of the time (Incarnate)

[mac10289]

I love this deck, but i've been a fan of the Rol/Hope deck for a while just never had one fully upped till now. I've beat most of the FG's it says you can't in this thread. For the poison FG's it ALL relies on when you get your Lobo. I get it the first draw against them for some reason... but this deck is even better with 2 SoG's. It may make it a turn or 2 slower, BUT it WILL save you against some of the FG's you shouldn't be able to beat. This deck does do what it was made for....... Farming electrum.

[Nume]

He realizes that variants with shards and such will provide a higher win ratio, but thats not the goal of this version. The goal is to win as much electrum as possible per hour, by skipping any hard boss or bad hands and only playing the ones that you can win consistently and quickly. You will have many more losses, and may not gain score as fast, but will make a lot more electrum do to getting many many more battles in per time period.