Post by: Higurashi on October 21, 2010, 05:39:02 pm
Been using Angels since June 2010. Bit tired of having to go for the deck code when posting it to people that ask for my version. Also noticed there's no Hope version with Archangels in the FG deck archive, so I've submitted this solely for the purpose of showing people it's just as awesome. Also, the name is based on the concept of Aether being unchangeable, and it's also a reference to Perpetual by VNV Nation. (<3)
I like speed in my Hope, since that's the deck's main strength. It has a solid win rate of ~45% while still being very fast, making it a perfect deck for grinding FG's. For that purpose, Archangels speed it up quite a bit as it helps you by getting the damage output going earlier in the match. This helps against all FG's, since you'll finish faster and reduce the power of their double draw. It also helps against FG's with shields, since you'll usually be able to get more damage out before that shield comes up, and it helps against FG's with healing for the same reason. For instance, I rush Ferox a lot more often with Archangels than Dragons.
On the flip side, you'll do less total damage late-game, which means you can't one-turn kill most FG's, and might deck out against Chaos Lord if he times his Dissipation Field well. Pros and cons to both.
There are two sides of the coin to the problem of CC as well, of course. While it's easier to bait most CC with an early Archangels to protect your RoL's, they don't have 12 HP like the Light Dragon. Luckily though, 7 is quite enough for most FG's, and since they can heal themselves, they won't go down over time like Dragons. Pros and cons to both.
As some of you know, I've participated in many Archangel/Light Dragon debates. The reason I explain the differences in this thread is I submit it because it's a different version. This thread is not for discussing what's better. Thanks in advance for respecting that.
That said, feel free to say what your preferences are, as always. If there's anything the countless debates have shown, it's that it boils down to preference. RoL/Hope is a very customisable deck since it relies on a combo. Anything around that can be adjusted. For instance, I sometimes run this with 2 SoG's, 2 Electrocutors, 3 Archangels, 5 RoL's, 4 Fractals or any combination of these.
Upgrading priority
Assuming you start from this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14533
1. RoL's
2. Pillars/Pendulums (improves win rate a lot. splitting from the start is never a bad idea)
3. Dragons/Angels (depending on what you go for. more damage is very useful)
4. Lobotomizer (economical upgrade since you will often use its ability several times)
5. Fractal
6. Hope (due to new AI logic of prioritising RoL's when Hope is up, the extra protection comes in handy. however, this is still optional, as you can lose some games from having 7 :light and upped Hopes on your last turn)
Skips
The rest of the info on this deck can be found in other RoL/Hope guides. However, I will note here than I only autoskip Octane. If early shield pops up for Hermes and Neptune, I quit. If early Inundation or Octopi and no Electro pops up, I quit vs. Neptune. If Ferox gets several early Bonds, creatures and early to mid-game Shield, I quit.
Update: Removed the SoG's since they were changed in 1.29. It may very well be even more lucrative with full speed.
Old stats by Noobiecakes and morningstar: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14312.msg294710#msg294710
Image time! I got this idea since I just rushed Rainbow again. The first two are really old pics.
(http://i.imgur.com/vM54Z.png)
This is your only chance of beating Hermes. He gets very few towers and spends the :fire on growing his Spectres.(http://i.imgur.com/sDZqq.png)
Yeah, that's how you do it!(http://i.imgur.com/iFDZU.png)
Just today, as my luck turned for the evening.(http://i.imgur.com/DPzjM.jpg)
The usual victims like DG and Destiny were killed about 5 times each during this day of farming, and you can find my epic survival against Gemini in that thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8305.msg380421#msg380421). x)
Post by: trisk22 on October 21, 2010, 10:25:27 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on October 21, 2010, 10:26:39 pm
Is this any better for score, and why archangels over dragons?
Post by: Wat? on October 21, 2010, 11:49:17 pm
Archangels can heal and cost less to summon, I guess.
Post by: lava golem on October 22, 2010, 12:04:01 am
I kinda like this more than the standard build who killed my score.Archangels are 6 :light for 7|7
Is this any better for score, and why archangels over dragons?
Light Dragons are 13 :light for 13|13
it's quicker to fractal angels because they cost half, so it's good against ferox and poison rushes
I use almost the same thing with a nymph and a dragon, no SoGs and 4 hopes...
Post by: ddevans96 on October 22, 2010, 12:15:05 am
That makes sense. I really have no preference myself, just wanted to know the reasoning behind anyone elses :)I kinda like this more than the standard build who killed my score.Archangels are 6 :light for 7|7
Is this any better for score, and why archangels over dragons?
Light Dragons are 13 :light for 13|13
it's quicker to fractal angels because they cost half, so it's good against ferox and poison rushes
I use almost the same thing with a nymph and a dragon, no SoGs and 4 hopes...
Post by: genraenera on October 22, 2010, 12:47:52 am
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5lk 5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81qI've never tried archangels to be honest, I'll upgrade two of them now and test it out. I've always had the idea that 7 damage is simply too low, but I guess thats just being asinine.
Other than the lack of pendulums, great deck, and best of luck making it to the archives :)
Post by: lava golem on October 22, 2010, 01:10:38 am
Post by: kobisjeruk on October 22, 2010, 02:31:21 am
Post by: lava golem on October 22, 2010, 02:53:56 am
This is my version of RoL/Hope:
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5lk 5lk 5lk 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7kc 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81qHoping for another light nymph :D
Post by: Higurashi on October 22, 2010, 11:35:26 am
The main problems I see are they struggle more against Miracle, Ferox etc who have mass healing, and a full field of these is worth less than Dragons.The only time Miracle is hard is when she rushes like crazy, and that's a problem no matter the deck. Once you set the stall up, it's a 100% win with both versions. AI is still too dumb with Miracle. Ferox I win a lot more against with Archangels. With Dragons you have basically no chance to rush him.
One thing you should change on your deck, make half the towers into pendulums. Seism becomes a lot easier after that.Yeah, I would if I still used it. As it is, this deck has a win rate of a bit over 80% against Seism, so I personally have no reason to do it. Of course, Dream Catcher also has two Quicksands, so it never hurts.
the best creature to fractal is Light Nymph (best cost:damage ratio in :light excluding hptono/RoL, ability to negate lobo effect)Aye, they're good for their damage-to-cost ratio just like Angels, and for their skill. The latter mostly comes to use when your RoL's get Lobo'd. However, the AI will lobo your Nymphs first. If you use Dragons, however, you can become almost unbeatable late-game with Light Nymphs. Then again, I'd rather go for speed as mentioned. I'd rather say I prefer something than say it's "best" or "better" since you use them all differently.
Post by: DesolateSoul14 on October 22, 2010, 07:49:04 pm
Post by: zse on October 22, 2010, 08:45:49 pm
1) Heal on Angel attracts FGs, so stupid AI Lobotomizes Angels and leaves bioluminescent RoLs intact. (Makes Angel better vs. Gemini, not sure if this works on Elidnis & Decay)
2) Heal on Angel attracts FGs, so stupid AI Twin Universes those instead of waiting for better target. (Makes Angel better vs. Paradox & Gemini)
3) Angels have 7 attack. Duh! (Makes Dragon better vs. Neptune)
I think this Angel version has little smaller win% than the version of Dragons I used to play with, but this deck seems bit faster to use. Angels can sometimes out-rush with fast damage, while with Dragons the game has to be taken into control before you can really start your final attack. All in all, these versions are surprisingly different, even though at first look they seem almost similar. Good job Marisa!
Post by: genraenera on October 22, 2010, 09:11:12 pm
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5lk 5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7ju 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81qIts the OP deck, with the towers differentiated. Splitting the towers into pendulums and towers isn't all that big of a deal, but in the long run any extra benefit for no costs (once you have the pendulums upgraded, that is) is worth it. After trying out angels, I LOVE them. They are so much faster than dragons, its ridiculous. I believe this build is close to the "best" possible with the current set of cards, and would recommend it to any new FG farmers looking for a good deck.
Note, it doesn't matter if you go with 3 towers and 4 pendulums or 4 towers and 3 pendulums, its irrelevant.
Post by: Wat? on October 22, 2010, 09:19:24 pm
Post by: Blasting-Light on October 22, 2010, 09:56:39 pm
Post by: genraenera on October 22, 2010, 10:02:52 pm
Post by: Higurashi on October 22, 2010, 10:24:42 pm
Post by: Blasting-Light on October 23, 2010, 01:11:07 pm
Yes, most people believe that the hopes should always be unupped because once you have it out, the difference between, say 13 and 14 damage reduc is irrelevant. You just want to get that hope out ASAP.
^What they said. That one damage reduction will very rarely ever matter, but getting it out an entire turn sooner sometimes? Huge.Thankies. ;)
Post by: lava golem on October 27, 2010, 10:10:20 am
Post by: Wat? on October 27, 2010, 02:39:07 pm
Post by: Nume on October 27, 2010, 11:18:07 pm
I have only 1 light nymph but I swapped it out for an angel.If you're using 1 light nymph, dragons are probably a better choice than angels simply because they can become bioluminescent, which is very nice and can actually make them quite fast since you end up having higher light production as well as a bigger hope wall. This is especially nice against gods like eternal phoenix who have fire storm which can wipe out your rols in one shot, but with bioluminescent dragons they still survive.
This is my version of RoL/Hope:Code: [Select]5lk 5lk 5lk 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7kc 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81qHoping for another light nymph :D
Post by: trisk22 on October 27, 2010, 11:21:30 pm
I agree, that would be useful and reduce the number of autoquit gods.I have only 1 light nymph but I swapped it out for an angel.If you're using 1 light nymph, dragons are probably a better choice than angels simply because they can become bioluminescent, which is very nice and can actually make them quite fast since you end up having higher light production as well as a bigger hope wall. This is especially nice against gods like eternal phoenix who have fire storm which can wipe out your rols in one shot, but with bioluminescent dragons they still survive.
This is my version of RoL/Hope:Code: [Select]5lk 5lk 5lk 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7kc 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81qHoping for another light nymph :D
Post by: Nume on October 27, 2010, 11:26:28 pm
Post by: Unholy Spirit on October 30, 2010, 11:12:37 pm
Post by: xn0ize on December 07, 2010, 01:31:17 pm
Post by: 2004030 on December 20, 2010, 03:11:59 pm
Quote
Light nymph:/.\
cost:9
stats: 1/9
skill cost:4 (3 if upgraded)
AA/ Dragon are the only choices now...
Post by: zse on December 20, 2010, 08:43:14 pm
... if you don't want to use Crusader:QuoteLight nymph:/.\
cost:9
stats: 1/9
skill cost:4 (3 if upgraded)
AA/ Dragon are the only choices now...
cost:5+2 :light
stats:~8/7
skill cost:1 :aether (with Electrocutor).
Post by: 2004030 on December 23, 2010, 04:34:12 pm
Thanks for reminder me that, that's the best creature indeed =]... if you don't want to use Crusader:QuoteLight nymph:/.\
cost:9
stats: 1/9
skill cost:4 (3 if upgraded)
AA/ Dragon are the only choices now...
cost:5+2 :light
stats:~8/7
skill cost:1 :aether (with Electrocutor).
Post by: Higurashi on December 23, 2010, 04:48:24 pm
Since upped Crusader starts with 3 attack, shocking past Miracle-using FG's is much harder. It also cannot heal itself like Archangel. Having more Lobos could be useful when trying to deck Rainbow out (will be much worse for rushing) and always good against Dream Catcher, but I don't see much else use for it.
Post by: jmizzle7 on December 23, 2010, 08:12:13 pm
Post by: willng3 on December 23, 2010, 08:25:38 pm
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5lk 5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7k5 7k5 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81qNot sure whether I would like to use this over the one posted here, but it's a possibility I suppose.
Post by: Higurashi on December 23, 2010, 08:53:02 pm
Post by: Emissary Laito on December 25, 2010, 12:58:23 am
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7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7ju 7k4 7k4 7k4 7q9 7q9 7q9 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80iDon't know if using Sundials in this has been done before or not, but I haven't seen it done.
Been messing about with them in ROL/Hope since before the buff though.
This seems pretty fast from my tests so far. Haven't gotten any statistics, but I'm doing pretty well with it at the moment.
Since Mark is Light, I can power my Sundials easily and use upgraded Hope. Drawing pillars is quicker with 3 Sundials, so I don't actually need Aether mark to power Fractals.
Post by: Higurashi on December 25, 2010, 01:13:02 am
Post by: TheNemesis on January 04, 2011, 03:10:16 am
Post by: willng3 on January 04, 2011, 03:15:40 am
Morning Glory could be a choice. Then you get a 11/7 immortal creature.I'm assuming you intend to use Morning Glory with a Crusader variant of this deck. One problem with that: Crusader cannot target Morning Glory.
Post by: Doichimaru on February 17, 2011, 09:21:32 am
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5lk 5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7ju 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81qThis variant is what I have been using off and on for the past... let's say six months. Although Perpetual Light is awesome, I felt that an extra tower was needed to make eight. Also, making half the towers pend instead really provided some help vs. Seism. Finally, I felt also that a fourth SoG was needed. A bit of xtra healing never hurt, eh?
Edit: Also, if you happen to have an improved miracle in your possession, then that is also a plausible option.
Post by: Higurashi on February 17, 2011, 02:03:28 pm
So I just added SoG's to make a couple FG's viable. Now, if you want to talk Miracle and other stall cards like Light Nymph, you're better off going full stall with Dragons, Nymph/Luci, Miracle and 6 SoG's. Higher win rate, slower electrum gain.
Post by: Newbiecake on February 19, 2011, 10:57:55 pm
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5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7ju 7k4 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81qNewbie friendly version:
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5la 5la 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 80e 80eAhh, what a productive day. 80 games for each now. Expect the statistics tomorrow.
Post by: Doichimaru on February 20, 2011, 12:01:14 pm
It does have 8 quanta sources. Now, the original idea behind Archangel RoL/Hope was to capitalise on the sheer speed of the deck. That's done best with no SoG's whatsoever like the original RoL/Hope build and skipping a lot of FG's. Certainly, that increases your electrum gain per hour, but I don't like losing. :Pah. i understand now. thank you Higura!
So I just added SoG's to make a couple FG's viable. Now, if you want to talk Miracle and other stall cards like Light Nymph, you're better off going full stall with Dragons, Nymph/Luci, Miracle and 6 SoG's. Higher win rate, slower electrum gain.
Post by: Newbiecake on February 22, 2011, 02:18:13 am
I feel very attached to this deck. So please, let me contribute by gathering statistics. I'm using gathering statistics for 100 games with these two decks:Done. Enjoy guys. Higs, I wouldn't mind if you add this to your first post. :DCode: [Select]5lk 5lk 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7ju 7k4 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q
Newbie friendly version:Code: [Select]5la 5la 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 80e 80eI have a little over 30 games of statistics recorded for these two decks. Hopefully I'll get it done in a few days.
Ahh, what a productive day. 80 games for each now. Expect the statistics tomorrow.
Chaos Lord: (4/5) 80%
Dream Catcher: (3/5) 60%
Gemini: (1/2) 50%
Neptune: (0/4) 0%
Dark Matter: (2/4) 50%
Elidnis: (1/3) 33%
Graviton: (2/5) 40%
Obbliterator: (0/3) 0%
Decay: (1/4) 25%
Eternal Phoenix: (0/2) 0%
Hermes: (0/5) 0%
Octane: (0/3) 0%
Destiny: (5/6) 83%
Ferox: (2/6) 33%
Incarnate: (4/5) 80%
Osiris: (5/7) 71%
Divine Glory: (2/2) 100%
Fire Queen: (1/1) 100%
Miracle (2/3) 66%
Paradox: (5/6) 83%
Rainbow: (2/5) 40%
Scorpio: (1/3) 33%
Morte: (2/4) 50%
Seism: (4/7) 57%
Overall: (49/100) 49%
Chaos Lord: (3/5) 60%
Dream Catcher: (1/4) 25%
Gemini: (1/3) 33%
Neptune: (0/3) 0%
Dark Matter: (1/4) 25%
Elidnis: (1/1) 100%
Graviton: (0/3) 0%
Obbliterator: (1/7) 14%
Decay: (0/5) 0%
Eternal Phoenix: (1/5) 25%
Hermes: (0/6) 0%
Octane: (0/2) 0%
Destiny: 4/4) 100%
Ferox: (1/5) 25%
Incarnate: (3/5) 60%
Osiris: (6/9) 66%
Divine Glory: (3/5) 60%
Fire Queen (1/2) 50%
Miracle: 3/6) 50%
Paradox: (0/0) Undefined
Rainbow: (0/3) 0%
Scorpio: (2/6) 33%
Morte: (0/2) 0%
Seism: (3/5) 60%
Overall: (35/100) 35%
If you guys would like to catagorize the statistics into "Easy", "Medium", "Hard", "Impossible" for different gods you may. I'm too lazy to do more. :P
Post by: tttt on March 13, 2011, 07:40:40 pm
Post by: Higurashi on June 02, 2011, 05:14:11 pm
Post by: Doichimaru on June 03, 2011, 06:33:37 am
Post by: JoshK on July 09, 2011, 02:40:25 pm
Post by: grindpower on July 09, 2011, 04:01:47 pm
a lot more stable in my opinion.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on July 10, 2011, 06:34:46 am
Post by: Higurashi on July 10, 2011, 06:58:55 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on July 10, 2011, 07:05:33 am
there are 29 FGs, there are 500 decks
between the 500 decks, roughly 100 or so different strategies
so... about 3 times as hard as building a FG deck is...
great...
Post by: Gallowyn on July 11, 2011, 04:25:23 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on August 02, 2011, 08:25:55 am
(http://i.imgur.com/RDU4F.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/vTJur.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/5i9QB.jpg)
Post by: Higurashi on August 02, 2011, 03:53:59 pm
Post by: elfreth on October 13, 2011, 08:36:03 pm
Still, a nice idea, I like the angels especially ;)
I am curious, how would one handle firewalls, plagues, carapace walls, and the likes that wipe out your light production and your shield?
Post by: Pineapple on October 13, 2011, 08:41:16 pm
I like the concept of this deck...but the numbers for me just aren't there. I can't even consistently battle AI4 with better than 20% win rate, haven't even attempted a FG. I've been looking for something to replace my CCYB deck after the update that mostly nullified it's current incarnation. While I like the idea here, even with tweaking it, I'm not finding it compares to the win rate w/ CCYB (even post update).I'm pretty sure that the 50% win-rate was before 1.29, when the deck still had 3 SoGs.
Still, a nice idea, I like the angels especially ;)
I am curious, how would one handle firewalls, plagues, carapace walls, and the likes that wipe out your light production and your shield?
The current deck is faster, but probably doesn't have a better win-rate than old CCYB (RoL/Hope is known to have a lower win-rate than CCYB)
To play the best against counters:
Keep a Fractal and a RoL in hand (if necessary) when you face the False Gods with those dangerous things in their deck, and only if you face False Gods with those dangerous things in their deck. Know your gods.
It may be unnecessary if you can get out enough angels fast enough.
Alternatively, just auto-quit those False Gods.
Post by: Higurashi on October 13, 2011, 08:46:07 pm
But your best bet for tips is in each FG's Wiki article, as I made a paragraph for both Dragon and Angel RoL/Hope on every FG except Hermes and Octane back then: http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/pve/false-gods/
There are also stats taken by several experienced testers both in this thread and the FGei study thread. Oni can't get the same high results I do since the deck is suited to me: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.msg349339#msg349339
Post by: oblivion1212 on November 02, 2011, 02:55:37 am
this'd work with unupped hopes, right? (not that i even care about +1 :light, i'm just pretty broke right now + no patience to use mono-:aether)
i'm still staying with dragons though (yes, i'm THAT poor)
also, what about miracles/sancs??
i haven't found any versions with said cards.. they might slow the deck, but i think it'd only add +1~2 mins, which ain't really that big, while adding EM potential.. (or not, :time is subjective; i'm used to IGT and superslow decks XD)
Post by: pikachufan2164 on November 02, 2011, 04:13:46 am
this'd work with unupped hopes, right? (not that i even care about +1 :light, i'm just pretty broke right now + no patience to use mono-:aether)You can still use unupped Hopes, but the AI buffs made a few patches ago makes it a bit harder for you to keep your RoLs on the table once Hope is in play. That automatic +1 damage reduction is useful, but you can probably do decently without it.
i'm still staying with dragons though (yes, i'm THAT poor)
also, what about miracles/sancs??
i haven't found any versions with said cards.. they might slow the deck, but i think it'd only add +1~2 mins, which ain't really that big, while adding EM potential.. (or not, :time is subjective; i'm used to IGT and superslow decks XD)
With Dragons, you'll need to manage your quanta and burst more carefully against Miracle-using FGs. There are pros and cons to working with Dragons, Angels, and Crusaders; take whatever works for you.
You could use Miracles and Sancs for healing after SoG got nerfed, but they do decrease your efficiency, since you're winning fewer games over a set period of time. Upped spins (empirical data puts it at 550 electrum per win, averaged over hundreds of games) are arguably more valuable than the EM reward (120 electrum per EM).
Post by: omegareaper7 on November 02, 2011, 04:55:57 am
this'd work with unupped hopes, right? (not that i even care about +1 :light, i'm just pretty broke right now + no patience to use mono-:aether)1-2 minutes is huge in the long run.
i'm still staying with dragons though (yes, i'm THAT poor)
also, what about miracles/sancs??
i haven't found any versions with said cards.. they might slow the deck, but i think it'd only add +1~2 mins, which ain't really that big, while adding EM potential.. (or not, :time is subjective; i'm used to IGT and superslow decks XD)
Post by: ddevans96 on November 02, 2011, 12:46:40 pm
Post by: Higurashi on November 02, 2011, 12:55:06 pm
As time passed, I kept removing more and more SoG's to end up at 2 left for a newbie-friendly build, as I called it. Turns out it was just plain more effective. By winning games at increased speed, your electrum gain really soars, so after the SoG nerf I made the official move to the healing-less version that I've had so much fun with.
There's another problem with Sancs and especially Miracles besides slowing you down. You -have- to spend :light on them, which isn't always possible or desirable as you want Hope up ASAP in the vast majority of games, or want to start your offense ASAP (almost as important). With SoG's, you at least had the option of paying for the healing with your surplus :aether. Not so here, which slows the deck down considerably. Especially Miracles go against the very idea of the deck: fast defensive setup with simultaneous fast damage output for short games.
But, of course, if you like total domination instead, there are versions for that. This would be the oldest example of a RoL/Hope that enjoys a truly overkill setup late-game: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5026.0
Both Dragons and Angels can rush, but Angels are in this deck because you can start your offence sooner and end games that are going well much faster. That means if you quit when you know you're going to lose, you can increase the electrum gain considerably. Dragons work with Luci and allow for maximum damage output late-game, so in concept these two RoL/Hopes are opposites. You might want to experiment with Sancs instead of SoG's in that one (and consequently remove the QT).
Post by: Van Helsing on November 03, 2011, 04:05:16 pm
Brand new full-speed version!I bet for dragons, they are slow but a good average winning condition. If game goes to late and opponent has to be killed in just 1 turn, dragons are the match.
Been using Angels since June 2010. Bit tired of having to go for the deck code when posting it to people that ask for my version. Also noticed there's no Hope version with Archangels in the FG deck archive, so I've submitted this solely for the purpose of showing people it's just as awesome. Also, the name is based on the concept of Aether being unchangeable, and it's also a reference to Perpetual by VNV Nation. (<3)
I think metagame of Arena makes sanctuary a must, 2 of them. For FG i think 1 sanctuary and 1 miracle is good.
I only use 2 lobotomizers, they usually come at last.
5 towers 3 pendulums. If stolen, pendulums give opponent advantage while pilars are more or less 1 over 12 chances to be helpful
Post by: Some0ne on December 17, 2011, 06:05:47 pm
Any chance to make something similar or should I try another deck? I got a bunch of upgraded cards, shards, pretty much all weapons....but no lobos T_T
Post by: Higurashi on December 17, 2011, 06:12:02 pm
Post by: pulli23 on December 31, 2011, 12:47:41 pm
he prioritizes stealing it (over electrocutor), and if he has stolen that card dissipation shield doesn't work anymore.. Also gives you a healing that can give EM/neutralize poison a bit. (I would swap 1 aether tower out). - The cost of 3 light quanta is neglectable once you fractal RoLs
I might try a combo of 1 dragon 1 archangel - then depending on the FG I can decide what to fractal as damage dealer. - Not sure that works though.
Post by: Malao on January 07, 2012, 08:28:21 am
anyway with the one posted ive been using it and had decent success in plat league so i recommend giving it a few games in plat if you already have the deck.
Post by: Icedrackon on January 12, 2012, 10:22:09 am
I'm using this mod, with +2 Sanc -2 Pendulums. Also switched one of the Angels for a dragon; either can be fractalled, depending on what you need. Fractals, pillars, pends, etc. should be upped, but I don't have enough electrum yet. :(
Post by: Kuroaitou on June 22, 2012, 09:42:15 pm
...also, we seriously need a deck compilation thread for almost all variations of RoL-Hope, so people don't copy one another or something. >.>
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on July 24, 2012, 04:12:55 am
Post by: furballdn on July 24, 2012, 04:16:30 am
Personally, I think replacing Archangels and Light Dragons with upped Crusaders is the best investment you can do. Fractaling Crusaders in turn A and endowing weapons in turn B can create an army capable to withstand and bypass almost everything. Sometimes you need more than one Lobotomisers around and Crusaders will serve as an "Animate Weapon" card for this purpose. If two Retroviruses are on field, for example, one Lobotomizer won't prevent a mass CC to kill all your RoLs, but if you have a Crusader with Lobotomizer endowed you will be able to lobo both of them and to save your game. Endowing enemy weapons is also pretty effective, even if you can't use their skills. Fire Queen's Eagle's Eyes are always nice to be endowed, for example, even if you can't use Sniper. Chaos Lord's Discords, Ferox's Jade Staves and Incarnate's Vampire Daggers can also add to the fun. You can also endow Gemini's Lobotomiser if you haven't got your own yet. ;)Crusader=3atk for 5 :light
Crusader endowing a lobo=8atk for 7 :light + 1 turn
Archangel=7atk for 6 :light
Light dragon=13atk for 12 :light
I've ignored the other weapons since you don't have the quanta to use them (although vampire dagger and discord may be fun. Jade staff won't be as good)
I also doubt you really need more than one lobo at a time and the 3 in your deck.
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on July 24, 2012, 04:57:03 am
Morte or Incarnate may play 2 or more Retroviruses in a single turn. Lobotomizing all of them is vital, you will certainly lose otherwise.
Elidnis may spam 2 or more Ulitharids and Pupper Fish in a single turn. Lobotomizing any of these creatures is helpful, since Ulitharids love removing RoL's bioluminessence skill and Pupper Fishes poison you.
Osiris may play lot of Pharaohs in a single turn. Their Scarabs are deadly to RoLs, so removing their skill as fast as possible is vital.
For me, a 8|7 Crusader with 1 :aether:Lobotomise is better than both Archangels and Light Dragons, even if I need two turns to achieve this. Also, there is no useless weapon to endow. Eagle's Eye makes Crusade a 10|7 creature, I don't give a damn if it can't use its Sniper ability. Vampire Dagger gmakes him 9|7 and gives Vampire, Discord 9|7 and Scramble, Jade Staff 7|7 and Regenerate, Arsenic 7|7 and Poisonous, Pulveriser 8|7, Fahrenheit 8|7, Titan 10|7 and gives Momentum, Eternity 7|7, Poseidon 7|7 and Electrocutor 8|7 with Lobotomise ability. At worst, Crusader will become a vanilla non-airborne version of Archangel. At best, it will completely dominate the battlefield... 8)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 05, 2012, 04:47:16 am
Post by: burpcow on August 05, 2012, 05:47:58 am
Post by: Higurashi on August 05, 2012, 10:32:25 am
If early shields for both, I quit. If early Inundation or Octopi against no Electro, I quit vs. Neptune. With Ferox, it's about how many Bonds, and if Staff+Shield shows up.
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on August 05, 2012, 11:14:07 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 06, 2012, 03:33:23 am
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 15, 2013, 06:45:45 pm
If you have two light nymphs, definately use them instead of angels. It saved me a lot of times. Unfortunatelly, I only have one and I'm using the dragon so it can gain :light for luciferin.
Post by: Submachine on December 15, 2013, 07:37:17 pm
Just showing my version:Keeping 1 Light Dragon and 1 Nymph is better, because you can decide whether you want to hit big or hit defensively. Do a pillar/pend split and you'll be probably fine, though an Improved Miracle as 31th card can be a life saver often.
If you have two light nymphs, definately use them instead of angels. It saved me a lot of times. Unfortunatelly, I only have one and I'm using the dragon so it can gain :light for luciferin.