Post by: ~Napalm on May 26, 2010, 12:58:26 am
So I chose to revisit my namesake for Elements, perhaps this is to be my legacy. I did not put into the past two iterations of this what I had invested in the first two. I don't feel I need to explain why this is because it should be obvious enough. For a little while now, I have been reexamining the structure of these decks and searching for a balanced approach to achieving the positives of each deck while negating the negatives. Variants that did not take Phoenixes as their base were very prone to Creature Control decks. The nature of Phoenixes allowed them to surpass this hurdle in some measure, but the lack of a surefire damage dealer (you see what I did there..? ::)) took its toll on the overall balance and feel of the deck. The Dragons of KOTH played a role that the Phoenixes of vNG could not, and vise versa. In that day and age there was not a way around this. However, in the time since then, there have been several key additions that can bridge this gap.
The first and most important is the buff to Gnome Gemfinder. While I already touched on this with my Gems of Destruction variant, I did not do it justice. The ability to run a Fire Mark is more important than it would seem. Even though a game will normally end in 5-7 turns which means only 5-7 quanta has been transferred from Earth to Fire Quanta, the effect is tremendous. Particularly given the nerf to Cremation. It is quite difficult to explain really, it is something you'll have to experience for yourself. Having a Destroyer or Seraph out a single turn earlier than would otherwise be possible, multiple times in a single game, adds up very quickly.
Secondly, Seraphim can take the place that a Dragon would normally have filled. While the difference between 10 and 9 Fire Quanta may again seem slight (and rather obvious, why would you even consider a Dragon now..?), the difference is palpable. As an added bonus, the Light Quanta generated from Cremation isn't being used for anything else and can be invested in protection for the Seraphim in hostile environments (I've had a Seraph survive a Pandemonium or Plague this way! 8)). Seraphim are the bridge between a Dragon and a Phoenix and they make quite a splash when the enter the battlefield.
I was too stubborn to fully explore what Gems of Destruction was capable of and completely uninspired with vEnlightenment. Having returned the the old balance of 4 Fodder, 3 MP, and 5 Destroyers as a foundation to combine both of these decks has worked out quite well. While I was averse to removing the weapon at first, it is simply pleasing to the eye not having it in the deck. And furthermore, given the importance of PC in the current metagame, having nothing (important) to target can invalidate the existence of 2-3 cards in your opponents deck! A Tower/Pendulum split is also advisable but again for the purpose of aesthetics I chose to post the deck with all Towers (lookit how pretty it looks!).
The first and most important is the buff to Gnome Gemfinder. While I already touched on this with my Gems of Destruction variant, I did not do it justice. The ability to run a Fire Mark is more important than it would seem. Even though a game will normally end in 5-7 turns which means only 5-7 quanta has been transferred from Earth to Fire Quanta, the effect is tremendous. Particularly given the nerf to Cremation. It is quite difficult to explain really, it is something you'll have to experience for yourself. Having a Destroyer or Seraph out a single turn earlier than would otherwise be possible, multiple times in a single game, adds up very quickly.
Secondly, Seraphim can take the place that a Dragon would normally have filled. While the difference between 10 and 9 Fire Quanta may again seem slight (and rather obvious, why would you even consider a Dragon now..?), the difference is palpable. As an added bonus, the Light Quanta generated from Cremation isn't being used for anything else and can be invested in protection for the Seraphim in hostile environments (I've had a Seraph survive a Pandemonium or Plague this way! 8)). Seraphim are the bridge between a Dragon and a Phoenix and they make quite a splash when the enter the battlefield.
I was too stubborn to fully explore what Gems of Destruction was capable of and completely uninspired with vEnlightenment. Having returned the the old balance of 4 Fodder, 3 MP, and 5 Destroyers as a foundation to combine both of these decks has worked out quite well. While I was averse to removing the weapon at first, it is simply pleasing to the eye not having it in the deck. And furthermore, given the importance of PC in the current metagame, having nothing (important) to target can invalidate the existence of 2-3 cards in your opponents deck! A Tower/Pendulum split is also advisable but again for the purpose of aesthetics I chose to post the deck with all Towers (lookit how pretty it looks!).
TL;DR
Give this re-imagining of what Lava Rushes are capable of a test run. If you ever feel the need for speed, this is sure to please! As a result of years of re-balancing efforts, the stability is there to grant a continued respect for the sheer speed and versatility that Fire can bring to the table. Enjoy!
Lava Rush vEnlightenment
And now we've been given Seraphim to toy with in Fire decks. While they don't bring anything too new to the field, they add some pretty nifty variety. As such, the latest vNG is only a teensy bit different from its predecessors. I decided I wanted to get Seraphim in here without destroying the core of the deck. In essence I arrived upon a KOTH style deck which simply replaced the Dragons with Seraphim and the BLights with Rays of Light.
The Earth Mark gives the Destroyers plenty of room to grow and brings back the ever friendly Gavel. The ImmoFodder doubles as fuel for starting the deck and protection should the Seraphim get up and running. The Phoenixes once again provide the stability to make the deck run well most of the time. Feels good to use something so familiar again, but with new toys! And beside. Seraph has amazing art.
Gems of Destruction ~ Acronym that! I dare you.
With the buff to the Gnome Gemfinder (it's cost was reduced from 1 :earth to 0) there came the ability to rebalance Lava Rushes. And now with the recent Immolation/Cremation nerfs many of the older versions have taken quite a hit. Because I don't feel that the unupgraded version is a viable route anymore, I've taken the liberty of removing the construction guide that I worked so hard on. Thus ends and Era. We had a good run.
However, decks like this one can still be pretty powerful. With the Fire Mark, the nerf to Immolation/Cremation is felt less while you can still power the Destroyers quite well in most cases. I feel like this deck is one of the more stable ways to rush with Fire. However, there are so many variations now that it all comes down to user preference. See for yourself whether or not you like Fahrenheit in a Lava Rush!
KOTH ~ Reigning King of the Hill of t50 Grinder
May this rest in peace. The last deck to be tested by SickPillow and found to be the best of the best at t50 grinding. While I personally dislike Dragons when I Lava Rush, I had to succumb to the overwhelming need for speed if I was going to oust a Shrieker Rush. This was the end result and it really does know how to rush. Like V2, this deck is geared directly at maximum damage in a minimal time, the only exception being the Explosions that are used to take out pesky shields.
With the Arena now, I fear this can no longer justifiably keep it's title, but I'm going to leave it anyway for old times sake. This here deck is still one of the best options for super speedy rushing, especially when it comes to PvP. While the Arena may have diminished it's play time, it's just as playable as it ever was and it will forever hold a place in my heart. It was the first real accomplishment I ever had on these forums. Take it out for a spin if you want some good old fashioned t50 style speed grinding.
version Napalm Grenade ~ The Original
Aaah, the simple joy of Phoenix Spam. This here is what I would really call the original vNG. It's also the version that, until recently, I always used. While I had posted KOTH, I always used this, simply because I like Phoenixes a lot more than Dragons. They add more durability to Lava Rushes you see. While it's a bit slower than the Dragon Version, it can handle quite a bit more of a disturbance, so the drop in speed doesn't hurt it at all. Shields still aren't an issue either.
This is simply a different way to play the deck is all. While still extremely fast and very good at what it does, you gain that durability aspect that only a Phoenix can provide. Not many things can take a hit and just keep on cruisin' and givin' you a bruisin'. I'd recommend this version over the Dragon version any day of the week. But Phoenix is my favorite card, so yeah! 1 fewer upgrades helps too! This version here is better suited to PvP as it has the durability to withstand some of those meanies decks!
And now we've been given Seraphim to toy with in Fire decks. While they don't bring anything too new to the field, they add some pretty nifty variety. As such, the latest vNG is only a teensy bit different from its predecessors. I decided I wanted to get Seraphim in here without destroying the core of the deck. In essence I arrived upon a KOTH style deck which simply replaced the Dragons with Seraphim and the BLights with Rays of Light.
The Earth Mark gives the Destroyers plenty of room to grow and brings back the ever friendly Gavel. The ImmoFodder doubles as fuel for starting the deck and protection should the Seraphim get up and running. The Phoenixes once again provide the stability to make the deck run well most of the time. Feels good to use something so familiar again, but with new toys! And beside. Seraph has amazing art.
Gems of Destruction ~ Acronym that! I dare you.
With the buff to the Gnome Gemfinder (it's cost was reduced from 1 :earth to 0) there came the ability to rebalance Lava Rushes. And now with the recent Immolation/Cremation nerfs many of the older versions have taken quite a hit. Because I don't feel that the unupgraded version is a viable route anymore, I've taken the liberty of removing the construction guide that I worked so hard on. Thus ends and Era. We had a good run.
However, decks like this one can still be pretty powerful. With the Fire Mark, the nerf to Immolation/Cremation is felt less while you can still power the Destroyers quite well in most cases. I feel like this deck is one of the more stable ways to rush with Fire. However, there are so many variations now that it all comes down to user preference. See for yourself whether or not you like Fahrenheit in a Lava Rush!
KOTH ~ Reigning King of the Hill of t50 Grinder
May this rest in peace. The last deck to be tested by SickPillow and found to be the best of the best at t50 grinding. While I personally dislike Dragons when I Lava Rush, I had to succumb to the overwhelming need for speed if I was going to oust a Shrieker Rush. This was the end result and it really does know how to rush. Like V2, this deck is geared directly at maximum damage in a minimal time, the only exception being the Explosions that are used to take out pesky shields.
With the Arena now, I fear this can no longer justifiably keep it's title, but I'm going to leave it anyway for old times sake. This here deck is still one of the best options for super speedy rushing, especially when it comes to PvP. While the Arena may have diminished it's play time, it's just as playable as it ever was and it will forever hold a place in my heart. It was the first real accomplishment I ever had on these forums. Take it out for a spin if you want some good old fashioned t50 style speed grinding.
version Napalm Grenade ~ The Original
Aaah, the simple joy of Phoenix Spam. This here is what I would really call the original vNG. It's also the version that, until recently, I always used. While I had posted KOTH, I always used this, simply because I like Phoenixes a lot more than Dragons. They add more durability to Lava Rushes you see. While it's a bit slower than the Dragon Version, it can handle quite a bit more of a disturbance, so the drop in speed doesn't hurt it at all. Shields still aren't an issue either.
This is simply a different way to play the deck is all. While still extremely fast and very good at what it does, you gain that durability aspect that only a Phoenix can provide. Not many things can take a hit and just keep on cruisin' and givin' you a bruisin'. I'd recommend this version over the Dragon version any day of the week. But Phoenix is my favorite card, so yeah! 1 fewer upgrades helps too! This version here is better suited to PvP as it has the durability to withstand some of those meanies decks!
Post by: killsdazombies on May 26, 2010, 01:02:00 am
Post by: ~Napalm on May 26, 2010, 01:05:04 am
Post by: killsdazombies on May 26, 2010, 01:06:16 am
Post by: Retribution on May 26, 2010, 01:22:47 am
Post by: icybraker on May 26, 2010, 01:23:39 am
Post by: plastiqe on May 26, 2010, 01:32:15 am
Post by: Retribution on May 26, 2010, 01:37:17 am
The Photons are for the Immolations.I know that, but I don't think six are needed for six immolations. You have minor phoenixes.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 26, 2010, 02:37:20 am
In the unupped version, 4x Deflagration is overkill for AI3. Maybe you could try some Rage Pots?I could see your point. Perhaps 3 Deflagrations and 1 rage potion. I'll have to try it and edit. I don't want too much creature control for AI 3 because you simply don't need it. T50 is where that comes in. (Especially the Otyughs and Ray of Lights...)
Do you really need SIX photons?I hear you. You could try it with 5, but I wouldn't recommend any less than that. Often times I end up waiting a turn or two for the 1 photon I need to rush the field. For AI 3 you'd be okay waiting, but in the t50, 1 turn can be the difference between life and death.
I was farming the t50 with this by 350 score by the way. I'd say 55-65% win rate totally unnupped. After I had 3 Minor Phoenixes and 6 Cremations, at least 70%. Fully upped is 85-90%.
Post by: Retribution on May 26, 2010, 03:44:10 am
Post by: plastiqe on May 26, 2010, 04:48:22 am
..I don't want too much creature control for AI 3 because you simply don't need it. T50 is where that comes in. (Especially the Otyughs and Ray of Lights...)I think it's the opposite, T50 with all the rainbows is where you need permanents control... but people change their decks all the time so who knows. On the other hand, I know AI3 have quite a few creature threats: squid, maxwell's, otyugh & mind flayer to name a few. Either way your unupgraded version could benefit from Rage Potion cause it serves double duty for buffing Golems. For AI3/T50 I personally prefer a pillarless rush with novas cause it's super fast and I can use cards like momentum.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 28, 2010, 08:20:38 pm
Post by: Retribution on May 29, 2010, 12:12:53 am
Post by: killfer8 on May 29, 2010, 12:37:38 am
Why the upped phoenixes?They cost 2 instead of 7
Post by: Retribution on May 29, 2010, 12:55:18 am
Post by: xdude on May 29, 2010, 03:58:11 pm
Sorry, I meant unupped.They deal more damage.
Post by: ~Napalm on June 01, 2010, 01:16:41 am
*sigh* so I succumbed to the overwhelming need for speed.
Post by: Higurashi on June 15, 2010, 10:06:42 pm
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2whgg21.jpg)
Also, I <3 kartis
Post by: comeon1103 on July 19, 2010, 10:40:27 am
Post by: comeon1103 on July 19, 2010, 10:41:39 am
Post by: Higurashi on July 20, 2010, 02:58:22 pm
what do u use the 2 cramas for if u only got 2 rays? ???The remaining ones can be used on Minor Phoenixes; they're perfect Cremation targets. Not only do they come back, but they do it the next turn (unlike when they're killed by other spells).
Unrelated to that, I also wish to add that Ball Lightnings instead of RoL's are awesome. If I get a Minor Phoenix out, I can Cremate that over and over instead of the Ball Lightnings, and get 5 damage a pop for those instead. It has allowed me to speed the matches up even more, and the satisfaction of doing that little extra bit of damage needed to win with a simple Ball Lightning is lovely.
Post by: 12Elemental Master12 on July 22, 2010, 01:59:16 am
Post by: Rainbowz on July 22, 2010, 03:52:49 am
Post by: nilsieboy on July 23, 2010, 10:13:12 am
Post by: silverblack on August 05, 2010, 02:40:03 pm
5x burning pillars
3x crimson dragons (comes in handy when u have photons/immolations, but no golems)
4x deflagaration (destroy sog's, shields, weapons...)
6x immolations
6x golems
6x photons or spark (up to u)
it's been working really well, i've won all lvl3 and a fair amount of t50, mostly rainbows and a couple regular decks, the only issues are eternity's (deflag), rewinds, otyughs (when u first play golem), and the life rush deck, and the decks tht kill my golems when i first unleash them, but if i unleash them on the first turn i normally win. overall it's decent, but i would like ur opinion.
Post by: cookiepirate on August 05, 2010, 08:14:43 pm
i THINK it's when you create an account, complete the quests and reset your account
idk for sure
Post by: ~Napalm on August 25, 2010, 12:16:01 am
Lol Higurashi :D Thanks, it seems you answered most of the questions already. ;D
And thank you Rainbowz as well :D
And the only question I can actually answer:
i've been trying to build this deck but i have started with this deck instead, do u recommend tht i switch to ur unupped version or stick with this?That is also a pretty good rush, but I prefer having phoenixes for staying power. And I like the Rage Potion for the bigger enemies, or for adding that last extra damage I need to my golems. But it is quite up to you.
5x burning pillars
3x crimson dragons (comes in handy when u have photons/immolations, but no golems)
4x deflagaration (destroy sog's, shields, weapons...)
6x immolations
6x golems
6x photons or spark (up to u)
Post by: IcyChill on August 29, 2010, 05:14:56 am
Tried this before, and I just thought I should add another "spectacular feat" pic.golem rush beating octane!?!?!!? this is madness!!
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2whgg21.jpg)
Also, I <3 kartis
Post by: Higurashi on August 29, 2010, 08:24:41 am
It really is. x)Tried this before, and I just thought I should add another "spectacular feat" pic.golem rush beating octane!?!?!!? this is madness!!
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2whgg21.jpg)
Also, I <3 kartis
Post by: silverblack on August 29, 2010, 04:05:05 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on September 01, 2010, 06:37:48 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on September 03, 2010, 08:53:12 pm
Code: [Select]
5f2 5fc 5fc 6rl 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 809 809 809 809
Post by: guolin on September 03, 2010, 08:54:33 pm
I'm currently having fun with this version, although it lacks creature control, good or even merely decent hands destroy.Since you're using Fire Mark...Code: [Select]5f2 5fc 5fc 6rl 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 809 809 809 809
Gavel to Long Sword, lol?
Post by: ~Napalm on September 04, 2010, 03:22:54 am
*facepalm* good catch, meant it to be earth mark though :PI'm currently having fun with this version, although it lacks creature control, good or even merely decent hands destroy.Since you're using Fire Mark...Code: [Select]5f2 5fc 5fc 6rl 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 809 809 809 809
Gavel to Long Sword, lol?
Post by: jmdt on September 04, 2010, 08:13:52 am
Post by: ~Napalm on September 05, 2010, 02:54:35 am
Seriously, I started with entropy, got to 500 score (who knows how...), then made a timebow (fail...). At 12k score I got sick of it and gave up elements. Came back 3 months later, saw this awesome new phoenix card. So I sold my rainbow, upped 3 of them, and started farming :P
Turned into what is in the first post, which has now further evolved
Post by: Higurashi on September 05, 2010, 08:57:52 am
Post by: ~Napalm on September 06, 2010, 03:01:30 pm
Post by: jmdt on September 06, 2010, 03:04:00 pm
Lol, was this really the fasted deck around when I posted it? I was just being a noob xDIt was the first deck to use minor phoenix as cremeation foddor. A step that adds to the stability and overall speed of the deck.
Seriously, I started with entropy, got to 500 score (who knows how...), then made a timebow (fail...). At 12k score I got sick of it and gave up elements. Came back 3 months later, saw this awesome new phoenix card. So I sold my rainbow, upped 3 of them, and started farming :P
Turned into what is in the first post, which has now further evolved
Post by: guolin on September 06, 2010, 03:12:26 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on September 18, 2010, 07:57:30 am
Glad that's finally sorted out. I think I need to make a construction guide for No Land Stompy and put it on here too. Each guide in a spoiler so they can choose.
Post by: jmdt on September 19, 2010, 12:44:43 am
BTW this deck is the current KOTH i.e. the best T50 deck in the game.
Post by: willng3 on September 19, 2010, 12:54:13 am
Do you use your fire nymph in this deck now that you have it?Fire Nymph could produce some very interesting results, though you shouldn't try to improve something that's perfect IMO ;).
BTW this deck is the current KOTH i.e. the best T50 deck in the game.
Post by: ~Napalm on September 19, 2010, 01:41:57 am
Conclusion: Wait for Fire Being | Blazing Entity and then make a fire Mono :P
Post by: willng3 on September 19, 2010, 01:44:39 am
Lol yeah, I tried it for a while, but it means not playing that dragon I have in my hand, and then not playing anything else to clear the opponents field.Just out of curiosity, what did you replace with the Red Nymph?
Conclusion: Wait for Fire Being | Blazing Entity and then make a fire Mono :P
Post by: ~Napalm on September 19, 2010, 01:55:33 am
Post by: willng3 on September 19, 2010, 02:04:38 am
I think one of the MP's. Although one of the dragons would probably be a better choice. btw... We're not turning this into the Card Idea post... No more replying to anything I say just to reply to anything I say :PThat was simply showing you grace by keeping your topic alive. This on the other hand was a completely legitimate question. I was asking the question simply because I have terrible difficulty finding a deck for my only nymph to fit into, but if this is a crime then fine, I won't reply anymore.
Post by: ~Napalm on September 19, 2010, 02:10:35 am
Post by: Legit on September 19, 2010, 02:22:11 am
Also, the first link for Decay is some rainbow deck vs. AI3.
Post by: ~Napalm on September 19, 2010, 03:04:16 am
I love this deck :P
Also, the first link for Decay is some rainbow deck vs. AI3.
Hmmm, thx. I don't know when that happened. I swear it used to be a pic of my unupgraded deck beating decay. I can still find the pic, I just can't link to it >: (
Post by: Higurashi on September 19, 2010, 09:35:54 am
Send it to me and I can put it on my FTP. :D
Post by: ~Napalm on September 21, 2010, 04:03:04 am
Post by: jmdt on September 21, 2010, 04:06:33 am
Post by: ~Napalm on September 21, 2010, 04:11:30 am
You need to submit this to the T50 deck archive upped and unupped.Ok, sure why not. Although unupped is ridiculously close to vreely's now that I'm comparing them side by side. Also, when I said I started with it completely unnupped, I told a white lie. I actually started with 3 Minor Phoenixes. I'm telling you, those 3 cards alone made it great at t50.
Post by: ~Napalm on September 23, 2010, 03:01:53 am
Post by: ~Napalm on October 06, 2010, 07:30:21 pm
Post by: Gocubbies1212 on October 16, 2010, 01:21:56 am
Post by: jmdt on October 16, 2010, 01:41:41 am
should we upgrade the dragons?no.
crimsons are faster and have 1 more hp.
Post by: Gocubbies1212 on October 16, 2010, 01:48:22 am
Post by: ~Napalm on October 16, 2010, 02:47:40 am
Post by: Doichimaru on October 17, 2010, 06:44:19 am
Post by: 132jh on October 23, 2010, 02:20:51 pm
Code: [Select]
4t5 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5gi 61p 61p 61p 61p 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7dsthats currently the deck im using, i almost hav eenough to upgrade some more cards, which ones should i upgrade first?
could someone post an upgrade path
Post by: ddevans96 on October 23, 2010, 02:21:49 pm
There's one on the original post, if you care to open the spoilers.Code: [Select]4t5 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5gi 61p 61p 61p 61p 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds
thats currently the deck im using, i almost hav eenough to upgrade some more cards, which ones should i upgrade first?
could someone post an upgrade path
Post by: ~Napalm on October 23, 2010, 10:42:35 pm
But the way that I did it was Minor Phoenixes, Cremation, Tower, Explosion, Destroyer, Gavel, Ball of Lightning
Post by: anakin2177 on November 16, 2010, 08:30:47 pm
Post by: willng3 on November 16, 2010, 08:36:06 pm
Quick question: why Sparks/Ball Lightnings instead of Photons/RoLs? I mean, Photons and RoLs can last, while Ball Lightnings can't.In the long run, Ball Lightnings do more damage than RoL. It takes 5 turns for 1 RoL to inflict the same amount of damage a BL can do in one turn. Generally you hold onto any extra BL that you aren't going to cremate until the last turn where it might make killing the opponent easier. It's not required but it makes things faster over the long run.
Unupped versions of this deck I personally prefer Photons over Sparks because that damage advantage is reduced to 3 turns; which is easily doable in an unupped deck. I know some people still run Sparks to prevent them from playing a Photon and then having it get killed by Fire Bolt, Lightning, Chaos Seed, etc. but in this area it's really just a matter of preference.
Post by: Higurashi on February 23, 2011, 09:36:09 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/sM1RD.png)
This is still the best T50 deck. :>
Post by: jmdt on February 23, 2011, 09:52:15 pm
Post by: BPAV on February 23, 2011, 10:28:58 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on February 24, 2011, 05:30:27 am
Post by: Higurashi on February 24, 2011, 02:37:37 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 24, 2011, 03:08:38 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on February 24, 2011, 03:19:55 pm
I just quit after 10 turns*gasp* Quitters never Win and Winners never Quit!
Post by: willng3 on February 24, 2011, 03:30:43 pm
Well, it appears the verdict has been issued...I just quit after 10 turns*gasp* Quitters never Win and Winners never Quit!
(http://i.imgur.com/CT9Yg.jpg)
But seriously, unless you're speed grinding for rares I wouldn't advise just quitting games.
Post by: timtwins on February 24, 2011, 03:41:07 pm
Post by: Higurashi on February 24, 2011, 04:45:51 pm
It's like a hybrid between V2 and vNG. And yes, it's called vHigs in my file. It's just an in-joke. x)
Post by: ~Napalm on February 24, 2011, 04:50:14 pm
First a new meme, now vHigs... Iz gonna laugh myself to death :))
But seriously now, I prefer BLights because I can still use unupped Phoenixes that way :P
Post by: Tea is good on February 26, 2011, 01:30:36 am
Post by: Higurashi on February 26, 2011, 01:39:00 am
Code: [Select]
5f2 5f2 6rl 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 809 809Mm.. tasty stability..
Post by: Tea is good on February 26, 2011, 02:08:17 am
Post by: Higurashi on February 26, 2011, 02:19:20 am
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 26, 2011, 09:28:51 pm
Divine Glory (http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k516/Malebolgia1113/DGwithFireRushVNG.jpg)
I got lucky because his MG spams were very seperated with his low Tower count.
Post by: ~Napalm on March 01, 2011, 02:54:08 am
lol heres a feat to add:Wewt! Nice job!
Divine Glory (http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k516/Malebolgia1113/DGwithFireRushVNG.jpg)
I got lucky because his MG spams were very seperated with his low Tower count.
Post by: BPAV on March 01, 2011, 03:08:02 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on March 02, 2011, 12:27:44 pm
i am going to try this deck or should i wait (because the new cards are going to be online )Up to you, this is a pretty standard deck and it works great, if I do say so myself. But I suppose with the Gemfinder buff, we might be seeing a nice deck shift in Cremation Rushes to make them more stable.
AKA: Lava Rush vNG 2.0!
Code: [Select]
5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dn 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7dsIt has yet to be determined if this is an improvement or not. Much testing will need to be done concerning the matter. My initial reaction is that I'm not getting enough Earth Quanta if the game goes on too long, but I have enough Quanta to make Fahren better than Longsword more often than not. So maybe -Tower +Gnome would be better.
A remake of KOTH would look something like this.
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5f2 5f2 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dn 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7dsNote: You're going to want 4 MP's in here because now the alternate target for Cremation is often times more useful on the field generating Earth Quanta. This is one of the reasons I prefer unupped Phoenixes in a deck like this over Dragons.
Post by: Istari. on March 08, 2011, 07:49:04 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on March 08, 2011, 07:58:37 pm
I like the fact that this give more Immolation fodder and potentially more Earth quanta, but I worry about early game Earth if you can't get a quick gemfinder. It also has the disadvantage of more upgrades. I think upgraded it has more potential then the old rush though.You definitely have a point about early game Earth Quanta, but it's generally only an issue if you're dropping multiple Destroyers. And you're right, this idea is strictly upped. Unupped like this would not work well at all.
Building up to this from scratch would be done more easily by the standard deck, upgrading Gemriders instead of Photons/Sparks at the very end, then switching over.
Post by: ~Napalm on March 08, 2011, 10:15:47 pm
I just thought it would be fun to share that this here is the 6960th topic to be posted on the Forum. I just got my 6960th Win with it :))
Back to serious discussion: I think I'll be testing multiple different builds of this now to find out which is the best. Some things I'll consider:
- Fire Mark vs Earth Mark[/li]Dragon vs Phoenix (vs Graboid)[/li]Gemfinder vs Ball Lightning[/li]
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 08, 2011, 10:18:00 pm
evil...
why is it that the masters of my favorite elements (fire, water, and aether) are evil?
nap... previously essence (haven't made up my mind about RR yet), and higs (banned phoenix from multiple tournaments...)
Post by: plastiqe on March 09, 2011, 12:23:11 am
I like the new name, how bout you :PNow you're Master of Fire so it fits!
Post by: willng3 on March 09, 2011, 12:27:14 am
I like the new name, how bout you :PWait...so what do we call your Fractix variant NOW? ???
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 09, 2011, 12:29:56 am
Post by: ~Napalm on March 09, 2011, 04:45:45 am
Lmao most firepower quality I've ever seen (pun may or may not be intended; it's up to you). If you were to go Earth mark for the unupped one would you replace the photons with gnomes?I would think no, it slows down your spam by a whole turn to have them as gnomes. That and if you go second, you may be forced to discard. As it stands, unupped is definitely best with Photons/Sparks.
Like I said, I'll have to do some extensive Win% and ttw testing for multiple different variations of this deck now. We must find the most useful one! And besides... doing 200 games for 4-5 different decks should keep me busy for a while :P
Post by: icecoldbro on March 13, 2011, 05:01:37 am
Thanks to buff on Gnomes, there is no longer a problem of them fulling up hand, also they have higher Health therefore they can survive 2 turns vs a fire shield instead of one.Lmao most firepower quality I've ever seen (pun may or may not be intended; it's up to you). If you were to go Earth mark for the unupped one would you replace the photons with gnomes?I would think no, it slows down your spam by a whole turn to have them as gnomes. That and if you go second, you may be forced to discard. As it stands, unupped is definitely best with Photons/Sparks.
Like I said, I'll have to do some extensive Win% and ttw testing for multiple different variations of this deck now. We must find the most useful one! And besides... doing 200 games for 4-5 different decks should keep me busy for a while :P
Gnomes are definitely better now and should be changed in original post as they will no doubt make the deck more efficient and therefore faster and better.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 13, 2011, 07:13:24 pm
I know NG is nap, but what's "v"
Post by: ddevans96 on March 13, 2011, 07:13:54 pm
now that I think about it... I never knew what vNG stood for..Version.
I know NG is nap, but what's "v"
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 13, 2011, 07:28:52 pm
Version Napalm Grenade? It sounds quite catchy now that I think about itnow that I think about it... I never knew what vNG stood for..Version.
I know NG is nap, but what's "v"
Post by: Falcon4415 on March 13, 2011, 07:30:16 pm
Napalm was talking about the unupped version :).Thanks to buff on Gnomes, there is no longer a problem of them fulling up hand, also they have higher Health therefore they can survive 2 turns vs a fire shield instead of one.Lmao most firepower quality I've ever seen (pun may or may not be intended; it's up to you). If you were to go Earth mark for the unupped one would you replace the photons with gnomes?I would think no, it slows down your spam by a whole turn to have them as gnomes. That and if you go second, you may be forced to discard. As it stands, unupped is definitely best with Photons/Sparks.
Like I said, I'll have to do some extensive Win% and ttw testing for multiple different variations of this deck now. We must find the most useful one! And besides... doing 200 games for 4-5 different decks should keep me busy for a while :P
Gnomes are definitely better now and should be changed in original post as they will no doubt make the deck more efficient and therefore faster and better.
Post by: ~Napalm on March 15, 2011, 04:35:47 am
Post by: onnig on March 17, 2011, 01:23:20 am
Post by: deadlyd1001 on March 17, 2011, 02:58:35 am
but the unupped phoenixes are amazing
they give some much need resilience to the deck
+ karma
Post by: ~Napalm on March 17, 2011, 09:16:39 pm
i have been using the old version with dragons for quite a while^----- SEEE GUYS?! Somebody knows where it's at. All o' y'allz and your silly Dragons...
but the unupped phoenixes are amazing
they give some much need resilience to the deck
+ karma
Thx for the karma, glad you like it ;D
Post by: Tea is good on March 17, 2011, 09:54:16 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on March 21, 2011, 02:32:31 am
un-upped phoenixes > fire stall in t50Awww yeah. Phoenixes > A lot of things in t50 though :P
Seriously though, I would recommend Phoenixes over Dragons any day. Cheaper, can be used as revivable Immofodder in dire situations, Extremely difficult to kill permanently, etc. etc. etc.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 21, 2011, 02:36:31 am
Only problem with Phoenixes is they can turn to ash easily... Otyughs+RoF have continued to plague me throughout the T50. Then again Dragons are much worse because once their dead... their dead. No reincarnation for them :Pun-upped phoenixes > fire stall in t50Awww yeah. Phoenixes > A lot of things in t50 though :P
Seriously though, I would recommend Phoenixes over Dragons any day. Cheaper, can be used as revivable Immofodder in dire situations, Extremely difficult to kill permanently, etc. etc. etc.
Post by: ~Napalm on March 21, 2011, 03:47:24 am
Bottom Line: Phoenix are Win! Use them or be unhappy :))
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 22, 2011, 07:52:09 pm
Did you just contradict your contradiction? ???I think a small tournament is needed to decide who gets to be the master of phoenix :P
Bottom Line: Phoenix are Win! Use them or be unhappy :))
we need 4 ppl...
u..
ICB...
me..
and who?
we need one more!!!
Post by: Falcon4415 on March 22, 2011, 08:35:51 pm
Boingo.Did you just contradict your contradiction? ???I think a small tournament is needed to decide who gets to be the master of phoenix :P
Bottom Line: Phoenix are Win! Use them or be unhappy :))
we need 4 ppl...
u..
ICB...
me..
and who?
we need one more!!!
Yay, one word post FTW.
Post by: onnig on March 24, 2011, 04:34:30 am
Post by: Danade on March 24, 2011, 06:52:00 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 24, 2011, 06:59:48 pm
What order do you upgrade this in? What's prioritized?I find it funny that I answer your questions... even when it's public
answer:
immolations>destroyers>phoenixes>burning towers>ball lightnings>gavel>explosions
just my opinion
Post by: Danade on March 24, 2011, 07:02:58 pm
You're always first to reply ;DWhat order do you upgrade this in? What's prioritized?I find it funny that I answer your questions... even when it's public
answer:
immolations>destroyers>phoenixes>burning towers>ball lightnings>gavel>explosions
just my opinion
I'm using RoL's, not Ball Lightnings, is there any bonus to BL?
(Upping Immo's now)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 24, 2011, 07:05:39 pm
BLs are generally faster in upgraded fire rushesYou're always first to reply ;DWhat order do you upgrade this in? What's prioritized?I find it funny that I answer your questions... even when it's public
answer:
immolations>destroyers>phoenixes>burning towers>ball lightnings>gavel>explosions
just my opinion
I'm using RoL's, not Ball Lightnings, is there any bonus to BL?
(Upping Immo's now)
Post by: Danade on March 24, 2011, 07:07:58 pm
What do you mean by that? I tend to use RoL's as they can at least survive for a turn, quite good against a deck out right now with Fractalled Pests as it gives quantum to be eaten...BLs are generally faster in upgraded fire rushesYou're always first to reply ;DWhat order do you upgrade this in? What's prioritized?I find it funny that I answer your questions... even when it's public
answer:
immolations>destroyers>phoenixes>burning towers>ball lightnings>gavel>explosions
just my opinion
I'm using RoL's, not Ball Lightnings, is there any bonus to BL?
(Upping Immo's now)
But what do you mean by faster?
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 24, 2011, 07:10:57 pm
in unupped, BLs do 3 damage, and photons can stay around for more than 3 turns
in upped, BLs do 5, and RoL needs 5 turns to do the same damage, considering a lot of TTW is 4, or even 3, RoLs are slower
AND if you ever need something to cremate, minor phoenixes are good, unupped phoenixes do 7 damage a turn, to cremate that would slow you down, so photons are used, in upped, BLs do more damage than minor phoenix, and u can always revive the phoenix
which is why we use BL
Post by: Danade on March 24, 2011, 07:12:38 pm
TTW has shown BLs to be faster than RoLsSo they are only used for their free 5 damage output in one turn and not for an early cremation?
in unupped, BLs do 3 damage, and photons can stay around for more than 3 turns
in upped, BLs do 5, and RoL needs 5 turns to do the same damage, considering a lot of TTW is 4, or even 3, RoLs are slower
AND if you ever need something to cremate, minor phoenixes are good, unupped phoenixes do 7 damage a turn, to cremate that would slow you down, so photons are used, in upped, BLs do more damage than minor phoenix, and u can always revive the phoenix
which is why we use BL
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 24, 2011, 07:16:35 pm
after we have phoenix(s), BLs are just used for damage
Post by: ~Napalm on March 24, 2011, 11:32:02 pm
I would personally not recommend upgrading Sparksk to Ball Lightnings unless you don't have anything better to do with the 6,000 Electrum required. RoL's open the gateway for an RoL Hope deck in the future.
I now use Gemfinders and a Mark of Fire as a find it may add further stability to the deck. But again, the difference between what you use for your no cost ImmoFodder is very slight.
To answer your question about the order you upgrade it. I would suggest the following:
Immolation -> Cremation x6
Phoenix -> Minor Phoenix x3
Pillars/Pends -> Towers/Pends x6
Lava Golems -> Lava Destroyers x5
Hammer -> Gavel x1
Deflagration -> Explosion x2
Immofodder -> Better ImmoFodder x4
That was the order that I did it in, and it worked pretty well for me.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 24, 2011, 11:41:52 pm
RoL's open the gateway for an RoL Hope deck in the future.actually, RoLs just save money...
I already had Danade make RoL/hope deck :P
Post by: Sevs on March 28, 2011, 07:08:45 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 28, 2011, 11:25:23 pm
Post by: willng3 on March 28, 2011, 11:42:57 pm
Hmmm, explosions really aren't that necessary for me with this deck... most of the time you can outrush the opponent with raw firepower before they even get dangerous permanents out anywayT50 changes a LOT. Sometimes there are like 10 mono :aether decks in T50, other days it's nothing but pure rushes. It's basically the best way to balance between the two.
Post by: TStar on March 29, 2011, 05:17:43 pm
Post by: Tea is good on April 02, 2011, 11:00:45 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd167641/Rush_Lionheart.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on April 02, 2011, 11:59:02 pm
ooops, i rushed lionheart.see? phoenix version makes everything handy and dandy...
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd167641/Rush_Lionheart.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Post by: Tea is good on April 03, 2011, 12:19:39 am
Post by: onnig on April 04, 2011, 04:15:06 am
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5fc 5fc 5fc 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dn 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7f2 7f2This is what I'm currently running. I find it very handy having an extra gemfinder and 5 towers, but I don't know if I should change either of them for an un-upgraded phoenix. Or, should I put it in regardless, have 31 cards and hope auto-mulligan plays in my favor? There are times where I seem to lack a bit of damage when I don't get golems. The reason I'm asking this is because I don't have too much time to test it out due to studies and I wanted some support on this matter from veterans (or anyone actually) of this game.Thanks in advance for the help.
Edit:I've played a dozen of games with my 31 card variant and it seems to be doing better than the deck I posted above. I won against most of the T50 decks I faced so far (lost once to a rush deck and had 2 free wins from farm decks). It'll still need more testing.
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Post by: onnig on April 04, 2011, 06:10:01 pm
I don't have any quanta issues except in some extremely rare cases. It's also not rare for me to end up with excess of quanta. I'm currently trying with a long sword instead of a fahrenheit as I feel it's cheaper and less situational. Btw, I used the deck from Napalm Grenade on top of page 8 and added a gemfinder.I've played a dozen of games with my 31 card variant and it seems to be doing better than the deck I posted above. I won against most of the T50 decks I faced so far (lost once to a rush deck and had 2 free wins from farm decks). It'll still need more testing.From what I see here it appears you have some quanta issues.Code: [Select]5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dn 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7f2 7f2
From a slow start, i'd say you "pick up" steam around 3rd turn or so.
5 or so "pendulums/pilars"
cremation must at the start, comes solely from minor phoenixes; and you only have two in that deck.
Your primary attacker is Lava Destroyer, with support from Gnome Gemfinder. Second attacker is Phoenix.
Questions:
"how "soon" do you find yourself playing heavy hitters? (Phoenix and Lava Destroyer?)
"Do you find Fahrenheit effective at all?" (It appears with slow quanta production Farhenheit hinders quanta that would be used for higher hitting Lava Destroyers and Phoenixes)
"Do you feel you have more Gnome Finders over the Amount of Lava Destroyers played?"
Suggestions and modifications:
*Have you compared it to the "original vNG" to compare speeds and quanta issues?
Replace two phoenixes for two dragons and see if you get a higher attack output (it may slow your deck down a bit)
Replace one phoenix for another upped Lava Destroyer.
Fahrenheit could be replaced for CC aide/ adding a Rage Potion could help.
If you plan to replace all phoenixes for minor phoenixes, you'll boost the speed of your deck at a cost of damage output.
Overall I've seen benefits of having two phoenixes on my deck rather than having 3 or more. (the rest being minor phoenixes.) However I'm playing a deck closer to the original vNG.
Post by: ~Napalm on April 05, 2011, 09:43:42 pm
Post by: Tea is good on April 07, 2011, 11:46:37 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on April 11, 2011, 04:09:06 pm
Ultimately I like this version the best. It's similar to the original in the respect that it's focused purely on speed, with the exception of 2 Explosions.
Post by: nilsieboy on April 11, 2011, 06:16:38 pm
I had the Rage Elixir for a while, as a buff and a troublesome meddler destroyer, but eh... I ended up changing it even more now. -1 Phoenix +1 Minor Phoenix, -1 Rage Elixir +1 Crimson Dragon. So it looks something like this. (Or rather... exactly like this)brilliant, tested it and loved the new variation.
Ultimately I like this version the best. It's similar to the original in the respect that it's focused purely on speed, with the exception of 2 Explosions.
fire mark helps getting damage out and gemfinders can be cremated/ act as quanta producer for destroyer.
Post by: Tea is good on April 12, 2011, 11:33:15 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on April 13, 2011, 04:37:26 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on April 13, 2011, 08:28:51 am
Whups... Always forget about the split. But honestly... IT'S AN IMMO RUSH! Why do you care about EQ? lol21st century...
Post by: Tea is good on April 16, 2011, 04:09:44 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on April 21, 2011, 01:48:01 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on April 28, 2011, 12:43:08 am
Post by: WShadow92 on April 29, 2011, 03:07:09 pm
Post by: willng3 on April 30, 2011, 06:18:49 pm
what card to upgrade first ?There's a construction guide on what to upgrade first on the very first page of this thread. Please read it.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 01, 2011, 01:52:55 pm
Thx for doing some testing with it though! It's greatly appreciated.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 01, 2011, 11:48:29 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on May 02, 2011, 02:15:57 pm
But... Phoenixes are still better than Dragons... I don't care WHAT your data says!
Post by: ~Napalm on May 02, 2011, 03:33:09 pm
Post by: kirchj33 on May 03, 2011, 12:00:37 am
I know that data is for your personal use and all, but be careful when making assumptions based off of 50 game tests. Through my extensive testing, I found that at 50 games, your margin of error is almost a whole turn and at 200 games I would make a fair estimate that the actual TTW recorded at that point probably varies by about .15 turns. Just food for thought.
I don't know if this deck helps you solve some of your mysteries, but here:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21375.msg291949#msg291949
I made that way back when, as I first started to make EM decks. Notice the creature spread? This may not translate perfectly, but over thousands of games of testing, I found this is the most efficient spread for the deck posted.
Why does this matter? You might ask.... if you notice the deck I referenced has NOTHING supporting the fire quanta other than cremations. Which has issues by itself, but the takeaway to gain from this is that, I would imagine this setup is probably close to optimal for the best start out of the gates when you consider just the fire creatures. The supported earth quanta in the decks you are working with, along with the fact that destroyers are very low cost might make for a different story, but as you are always eager to gain knowledge, I thought maybe you could take something away here.
P.S. Keep up the good work. I love it when people use a scientific approach, you don't see that sort of thing enough imo.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 07, 2011, 04:19:41 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on May 08, 2011, 12:58:11 pm
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on May 08, 2011, 01:53:18 pm
Post by: jayjay10 on May 12, 2011, 10:47:33 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on May 12, 2011, 11:07:56 pm
Now to find out if the same is true of 200 games! 500 games! 1000 games!!!
Post by: twixy10 on May 18, 2011, 06:00:20 pm
And a bad luck example: all 11 not Sparks creatures where belong the last 15 cards :P
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on May 18, 2011, 08:17:33 pm
Post by: Sevs on May 27, 2011, 05:36:55 am
I find it better suits me
The gnome riders really help with growing destroyers
Post by: kirchj33 on June 01, 2011, 02:04:29 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on June 03, 2011, 01:10:22 am
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5fc 5fc 6rk 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 7f2 Post by: Mildrey on June 03, 2011, 09:59:19 am
It's also a very good rush deck, thanks for that.
Post by: Sevs on June 03, 2011, 05:21:23 pm
lol great answerI suggest changing the name of this deck to MLP (My Little Phoenix).No.
Post by: CPU24/7 on June 18, 2011, 05:44:49 pm
Thx Napalm!
Post by: Duncanidaho on July 04, 2011, 11:01:50 am
I'm very curious about your findings/winnings against the new AI4. anyone experiencing different gameplay?
Post by: Higurashi on July 04, 2011, 12:08:46 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on July 06, 2011, 03:48:36 am
Post by: Sevs on July 11, 2011, 06:10:21 pm
I think platinum has changed since its first implementation.
In the first couple days of platinum, every deck was "fresh" but now there is an even mix of decks with "aged" HP. Never knew I could get a 2 turn win with a gemfinder. HP even down to ~150 gives a significant advantage to the the rush deck from 200 HP
When it first came out, everyone was trying to rush Platinum so in turn everyone played a lot of creature hate decks. now that people are using FG grinders, the momentum has swung more to 12 deflags and steals. extremely good news for a rush deck with no permanant reliance.
also with a full 500 decks there there is a wide variety of oracle cards helping to aleviate seeing the double draw speedbows.
EDIT* Did 100 games last night and this morning and got over 18k electrum and went 59-41
Post by: ~Napalm on July 15, 2011, 05:06:32 am
Post by: DarknessDemon on July 18, 2011, 06:13:29 am
Post by: Pineapple on July 18, 2011, 06:55:46 am
version Napalm Grenade - The real one. KOTH is a lie!I wonder.
version Napalm Grenade 2.0! The Gemfinder Edition
You don't really use minor phoenixes over unupgraded phoenixes as you use minor phoenixes over weaker types of cremation fodder.
Post by: Calindu on July 18, 2011, 06:57:35 am
What does vNG stand for? and why use minor phoenixes over regular ones?Minor Phoenixes=cheap.Is better when you rush with upped.
Post by: bogtro on July 23, 2011, 02:49:54 am
I havn't been keeping real stats, but I'm having ridiculous results on AI3 (over 95%) and Silver league, around 70% which is amazing for an unupped rush, particularly with the health increases.
I just wish I found this sooner :P
Post by: Opsinis on July 27, 2011, 12:22:29 am
Great deck!
Post by: ~Napalm on August 08, 2011, 10:20:05 am
Post by: Zaknefeinn on August 19, 2011, 08:23:39 pm
Post by: Zaknefeinn on August 19, 2011, 09:09:08 pm
Post by: bogtro on September 07, 2011, 07:25:21 pm
Adding some Rage Potions isn't a horrible idea either - you can use them on the Ash if necessary (there's a fair amount of Lobo's out there, and 5|2 can be better than 4|1 depending on the CC anyway).
Post by: bravobr on September 16, 2011, 12:54:39 am
Post by: ~Napalm on September 16, 2011, 02:53:53 pm
Post by: Rember on September 16, 2011, 04:52:24 pm
Post by: pikachufan2164 on September 16, 2011, 06:11:48 pm
excessive amount of PhoenixesBlasphemy! Napalm can never have enough Phoenixes :))
Post by: ~Napalm on September 16, 2011, 06:23:23 pm
I've been a fan of the gemfinder version for a while for messing around in arena, but switching the crimson for a fahrenheit seems like an odd choice with the disgusting amount of pc around and the nature of immodecks keeping quanta constantly low.That's what I enjoy using. Though I've used it primarilly in Silver. The way I see it, if you draw the Fahren early, it will probably get played earlier than a Dragon. If you draw it late, how much of a difference will it really make?
You can do whatever you like, but I've found that the Fahren can be instrumental in pulling out of a quanta flooded draw!
Post by: willng3 on September 16, 2011, 06:32:29 pm
The speed is impressive enough to where it deserves it :D
Post by: ~Napalm on September 16, 2011, 06:41:19 pm
Post by: oblivion1212 on November 02, 2011, 02:59:27 am
that immo|crema nerf was pretty bad though :'( :'( :'(
on a sidenote: i tried slipping a grabboid in.. pretty weird having a 31-card deck, but it works.. a bit slower though..
Post by: lawrenceleong888 on March 27, 2012, 07:54:51 am
Thank you so much as I have advanced to Platinum league with the help of this build...
Although KOTH can handle most(more than 70%) Gold league opponents with little problem...I guess I'll have to switch to your G.O.D. today for more awesomeness...
And my friends and I do hope that you can remain to participate in the upcoming war...after knowing your reluctance...
Post by: ~Napalm on April 16, 2012, 06:50:44 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 17, 2012, 04:12:21 am
Post by: burpcow on April 17, 2012, 05:39:48 am
Post by: ~Napalm on April 17, 2012, 01:36:55 pm
Post by: Exarp on April 18, 2012, 08:23:25 am
Lava Rush vEnlightenmentI've been playing around with a similar deck, but my approach is from the opposite direction.
I found that a mark of light was enough to power one seraph, and the cremations often provided enough for the second one, assuming that I even get to play it.
With your deck, I often found myself in need of earth quanta, so I used gemfinders, rather than RoL.
I replaced gravel, which is obsolete in my version, with an extra gemfinder.
I figured that for me, a stable and consistent growth for the destroyers was more important than a single weapon.
These changes " feel" better to me, but I realise that some would prefer your version.
I know that if you never get a seraph on the table, then all that light quanta will go to waste.
But I'd rather have one seraph stay on the table than only be able to grow one destroyer and have it controled.
Sure, a seraph could still be controlled that first turn, but that would have taken out that destroyer too.
I normally use this deck to fight in the arena or to PvP. I never really used it to fight FGs.
Anyway, I liked all versions of your deck in the past, even though I never commented before.
They inspired me to favor the fire element in most of my decks.
EDIT:
I only just realized that I might prefer your version if I replaced some (or all) pillars with pendulums, since that resolves the earth quanta problem and gives me less useless light quanta...
Post by: KeY533 on May 28, 2012, 06:24:41 pm
does anybody got statistics for the Lava Rush vEnlightenment deck or does anybody know for what it was designed? I guess it isn't for Ai3/bronze .. xD
Post by: Malao on May 29, 2012, 09:54:08 am
Post by: oblivion1212 on May 30, 2012, 12:23:39 am
it'd be quite a rush if you'd add UG's, right?
not sure about this ::)
Post by: blarp on May 30, 2012, 12:26:38 am
did anyone thought of :air :fire using damselflies as cremation fodders??
it'd be quite a rush if you'd add UG's, right?
not sure about this ::)
less rushy because of how easily UG could be a dead card in your hand. plus those earth dudes are best for golems. you might be able to combine something using an air mark with those but it'd be weird.
Post by: oblivion1212 on May 30, 2012, 12:35:10 am
did anyone thought of :air :fire using damselflies as cremation fodders??
it'd be quite a rush if you'd add UG's, right?
not sure about this ::)
less rushy because of how easily UG could be a dead card in your hand. plus those earth dudes are best for golems. you might be able to combine something using an air mark with those but it'd be weird.
ahhh.. good point, my thought was changing the golems...
:-\
Post by: LuisSilva20 on June 22, 2012, 07:35:18 pm
At the moment, is the deck valid to win against FG, or arena?
And if so, what would be the update order of cards?
Thx for any replies! ;)
Post by: ~Napalm on June 22, 2012, 07:46:42 pm
1. 6x Immolation -> Cremation
2. 4x Phoenix -> Minor Phoenix
3. 6x Pillar -> Tower
4. 5x Golem -> Destroyer
5. 1x Hammer -> Gavel
6. 2x Deflag -> Explosion
7. 4x Photon -> Ray of Light
8. 2x Seraph -> Seraph (I would probably use 2x Phoenix until I upgraded the Photons as a minimum before replacing them with Seraphim, preferably upgraded ones)
Post by: LuisSilva20 on June 23, 2012, 12:56:26 am
Honestly, I'll try to progress a little bit more with this deck. I've seen a lot of decks, a lot of guides and strategies to farm till lvl 50 and farm FG, but I must admit it, its hard for me to think a little bit furder about decks, if they will help me a lot, or it will blow. Change is always hard, right? :p
Post by: cwkoss on July 18, 2013, 11:45:46 pm
These changes " feel" better to me, but I realise that some would prefer your version.
I know that if you never get a seraph on the table, then all that light quanta will go to waste.
But I'd rather have one seraph stay on the table than only be able to grow one destroyer and have it controled.
Sure, a seraph could still be controlled that first turn, but that would have taken out that destroyer too.
I normally use this deck to fight in the arena or to PvP. I never really used it to fight FGs.
Anyway, I liked all versions of your deck in the past, even though I never commented before.
They inspired me to favor the fire element in most of my decks.
EDIT:
I only just realized that I might prefer your version if I replaced some (or all) pillars with pendulums, since that resolves the earth quanta problem and gives me less useless light quanta...
Been using this to farm Bronze very effectively. Most games end under 60 secs. Definitely still viable.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 07, 2014, 01:19:41 am
The premise is the same and the goal remains unchanged. Over time, the method has evolved. I'm quite satisfied with the culmination of all the work that has been done on this type of deck. This remains my only real contribution to our little community and I would like to give it one more chance to shine. This link (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/duo-decks/lava-rush-vng-~-rushing-through-the-ages/msg74927/#msg74927) will take you to the original page that has the latest variation. It is really just a collection of all the previous versions into a single whole because the passage of time has made that possible.
~Napalm
P.S. I am aware that you could use Shards. I make no effort to hide my discontent with Shards and Bravery is no exception. If you feel I'm unjustly limiting this deck then by all means, use them. However, a Lava Rush does not need Shards. A Lava Rush in its simple elegance is better off without them. You'll see.
Post by: MasN on May 07, 2014, 09:32:08 pm
P.S.
Is it just me, or is GoD have a misplaced destroyer?
(in center)
Post by: ~Napalm on May 07, 2014, 09:38:52 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 07, 2014, 09:50:20 pm
Post by: MasN on May 07, 2014, 09:52:23 pm
As much as I want shards to be nerfed, I think OP cards are there to be used. Your deck is a fun way to not use shards.
You will notice I neglected to put explosions and a weapon.
I like RoF/QS/RT in my immorushes. (and wings)
They screw the other guy up :D.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 08, 2014, 03:24:17 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 08, 2014, 08:07:37 am
I eagerly await the day that Shards are no more. I will be ready..! :P...which they probably won't. Which is why I'm suggesting going in a different direction with this deck.
Post by: MasN on May 08, 2014, 09:10:06 pm
Let the community protest have their rares turned into useless relics.
2.) There is financial incentive to make shards OP.
Post by: ~Napalm on May 08, 2014, 09:14:15 pm
Post by: Blacksmith on May 09, 2014, 08:22:45 am
Well I would play your deck like this.
it's a bit slower but it has higher win rate for sure.
Post by: Vangelios on May 09, 2014, 10:47:17 pm
Post by: ~Napalm on May 12, 2014, 07:15:11 pm
Blacksmith points out that an ImmoRush as a deck archetype is extremely versatile in nature, which is what makes them so interesting. However, vNG is a rather specific variation. While there is plenty of room for experimentation, my intent with this deck remains firmly planted on the original foundation: to bring stability to what would otherwise be a hit-or-miss deck reliant on good RNG.
That is the cornerstone that I use when determining whether or not a change I'm considering is in line with the deck as a whole. This is how I arrived at the original variants and even more so the latest one. It is the step I excluded when I posted GoD and vE, which is why I do not like those variations now. I find that GoD relies too heavily on Destroyers and Gemfinders which actually leads to more bad hands than other variants. vE made the mistake of reverting to an Earth Mark, which is not ideal for the sake of stability.
Marks:
When the original variants were posted, decks as a whole were slower and packing less CC than in today's meta. As a result, stability didn't make as much of a difference in the long run as it will now. This is why having a Fire Mark is superior to an Earth Mark. In the extremely short games, the Growth ability won't actually be very important because the game ends fast enough that running out of Earth Quanta is hardly a problem. In the extremely long games (against lots of CC) the Destroyers will most likely be removed permanently and the Earth Quanta piles up uselessly. A Fire Mark helps wean the deck off of RNG in the early game and the extra Fire Quanta will definitely have an impact in longer games (7+ turns) when you consider the extra creature(s) that can be played off of the mark alone.
Quanta:
Even with the Fire Mark I found it is better to avoid too many Gemfinders as fodder because they will inevitably lead to bad drawing if there are too many. Ever since the advent of the Minor Phoenix, four fodder has always been enough. I see no reason to change that now. Balance that with the six towers which have always been the ideal number, it would seem, and you have the buffer needed to rely on the Minor Phoenixes as the catalyst for deck launch. These simple ideals result in a reliance on Fire itself that makes bringing in splashed cards less ideal than in most other variations. The Phoenixes and Seraphim take that place instead.
It is also worth noting that as a result of easing the burdens on Fire Quanta, this deck can and does get by without a weapon. Not requiring Fire was the single greatest benefit to a weapon, along with the fact that it made three turn wins possible. The weapon itself is not fundamental to the core of the deck given the notable changes to quanta balance achieved in recent times.
Ugh. That was a lot longer than I expected, but I wanted to fully explain some of the reasoning behind what I'm using (I'm not quite as whimsical as I usually like to portray).
Post by: Vangelios on May 12, 2014, 08:21:56 pm
2 phoenix are 14 damage with 14 :fire quanta.
1 long sword and 1 minor are 10 damage with less than 3 :fire quanta and truly the deck flows better and faster. (savings of quanta to golems and Seraphim)
the phoenix usually are stranded in my hand and I don't like it
then I recommend at least do this
Post by: ~Napalm on May 12, 2014, 08:39:15 pm
These are my personal feelings about this deck that has been my elemental signature for many years now. How anyone else chooses to apply these decks is totally up to them. The reasons for various design decisions are entirely my own. They could be totally wrong, but they haven't failed me thus far. ::)
Post by: Vangelios on May 12, 2014, 09:17:50 pm
after all I'm a hero :P
I think it's cool, immo golen is a deck for everyone tastes.
and to commemorate 127 damage in 4 turns yesss
(http://i.imgur.com/5gMcoic.png)
Post by: ~Napalm on May 14, 2014, 06:34:29 am
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/2efoojr.jpg)
I was sharing this in chat or I wouldn't have bothered to post it, lol.
P.S. According to my calculations, my variation has an 89.4% chance to have at least one Destroyer, Phoenix, or Seraph on the field by turn 2. 95.97% if I go second.
P.P.S 64.3% and 78.9% for turn 1. I like those numbers ::)
I was sharing this in chat or I wouldn't have bothered to post it, lol.
P.S. According to my calculations, my variation has an 89.4% chance to have at least one Destroyer, Phoenix, or Seraph on the field by turn 2. 95.97% if I go second.
P.P.S 64.3% and 78.9% for turn 1. I like those numbers ::)
Post by: Vangelios on May 14, 2014, 07:57:57 pm
but today I tried and tried to do the very best and just got it
138 and save long sword :P
(http://i.imgur.com/Pn9gRNv.png)
Post by: MasN on May 16, 2014, 10:05:42 pm
(i like moving the skyblitz around)
(It used to be 1 explosion 1 firestorm, but prettier nao.)
(I tried 2 MP, and it was really inconsistant, than I thought, why not just use a RoL?)
(Your PC is dead)
Post by: Vangelios on May 16, 2014, 10:24:15 pm
but then you did a completely different of the topic deck.