Zblader's Cross-Design Column

[OdinVanguard]

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Spoiler for Creature Slot Importance:

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Do you know where this was first posted? I want to make use of it in explanation for a series and would like to give credit to the author.

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I think we can all see that EtG does not have combat tricks and is not ideal for the addition of combat tricks.
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Indeed, this is presently a problem.
We do, however, have field effects and, for that matter, a field. This could provide a good avenue for introducing some level of combat into the game.
As others have mentioned, there are a lot of difficulties to be addressed, so I am making a series on it.

Since field based combat makes a nice avenue for adaptation of outside ideas that require position and / or combat related themes, I thought this would be a good place to bring in discussion. Particularly since it is very relevant to the card being discussed.

[Hyroen]

Actually, I made that image and the argument that slots 1, 2 and 3 are of prime importance along with lesser importance for slots 4 & 5.

Seeing that Flooding isn't a card that presents major challenges for the metagame, it's clear that creatures excluded from that area are more valuable and that other factors affecting HP are largely at play.

[OdinVanguard]

Actually, I made that image and the argument that slots 1, 2 and 3 are of prime importance along with lesser importance for slots 4 & 5.

Seeing that Flooding isn't a card that presents major challenges for the metagame, it's clear that creatures excluded from that area are more valuable and that other factors affecting HP are largely at play.

I agree.

Big thanks for taking the time to make the illustration by the way. It proves very useful as a visualization aid for field effects.
(Here is the link to the series I'm using it in: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48038.0.html )

[ZephyrPhantom]

Card #2
Needlebite Trap, Magic the Gathering
Topic : Autocasting

As mentioned before, conditional autocast seems to be the direction this thread is heading in. So where does this card fit in?

As a trap, Needlebite Trap and EtG Traps has many similarities to an EtG Trap - it is meant to be casted under a certain condition to 'counter' an action by an opponent, and the casting usually gives you a benefit (in both cases, free/lowered cost).

If [condition], autocast this card for free.

If [condition], you may cast this card with [lower/free] cost.

One of the key differences is that an EtG Trap must respond to the condition, whereas an MtG Trap can be held back and saved for later. This allows an EtG player to 'force' certain traps out of a players hand, and partially a side effect of the fact EtG has no stack/chain/instant system.

Let's break down Needlebite Trap's 'trap effect' :

If an opponent gained life this turn,

The first part of making a 'responsive' card like this one is that you need a condition to trigger off of - Needlebite Trap picks a relatively simple condition that many White, Green, and even Black MtG players could possibly be using in their decks.

What makes having a such a broad condition important? The reason for this it helps the card to see play - MtG Traps penalize the player for not playing their 'Trap' condition by having a much higher normal casting cost. Having narrow conditions like Refraction Trap make the card less likely to be cast, and less likely to actually respond to what it's supposed to do. (Not every important Red instant/sorcery in MtG is a damage spell, even if a majority are.) While the problem isn't as apparent on the color-specific MtG Traps due to 'countering' what the color is best known for, you can find much more blatant example in EtG's Holy Light, which rarely sees play even in element-specific matchups.

, you may pay rather than pay Needlebite Trap's mana cost.

Pretty straightfoward here - condition is met, benefit occurs. This helps to compensate for the usually overcosted trap by making it extremely cheap to play in the right situation.
Likewise, autocast ideas here in EtG could 'respond' to an effect by autocasting themselves for free, saving the player quantum he might need to use later.

Target player loses 5 life and you gain 5 life.

The actual effect is important - you want the effect to be decent if it was normally casted, and extremely efficient if it was 'trap' casted. As I mentioned back with Reflection Trap above, not every Red instant/sorcery is a damage spell, meaning you can have a potentially dead card. The limit of the effect is further stressed by the fact there has to be something damaging a creature/you to prevent - if there's no card to respond to, this card can't do anything.

On the other hand, Needlebite Trap's effect is relevant regardless of when you cast it - in a game where you start with 20 life, it's draining 1/4 of an opponent's life and giving back 1/4 of your life. While it is expensive to cast, it doesn't have to respond to anything and knocks your opponent down a notch in most games.

It's also worth noting that an EtG Trap doesn't necessarily have to trigger of an enemy's actions - if the card triggers off something very general like 'successful attacks' or 'taking damage', you could easily create the condition yourself.

Moomoose and Odinvanguard compiled a list of possible triggers we could use for our 'trap' a few pages back. I'm also leaving up some sample ideas that I've made:

Ninja of the Red Scroll
4
4 | 1
Ninja of the Red Scroll is immediately played for free if a player takes more than 3 damage from a spell.

Ninja of the Sanctum
2
2 | 2
Ninja of the White Scroll is immediately played for free when you take noncreature damage.
Noncreature sources deal 1 less damage to you.

What do you think is the best trigger for a Trap?

[Chapuz]

What do you think is the best trigger for a Trap?

The  one covers poison, UG and Voodoo, while the  one only covers Lightning and Shockwave.
The  one has a much higher chance of being autocasted and that's better for me. The autocasting ability would be too situational with the spell restriction.

[andretimpa]

What do you think is the best trigger for a Trap?

The  one covers poison, UG and Voodoo, while the  one only covers Lightning and Shockwave.
The  one has a much higher chance of being autocasted and that's better for me. The autocasting ability would be too situational with the spell restriction.

The one responds to bolts as well and the spell damage can be dealt to your opponent (so you can create the condition yourself, even in a mono- ).
But if you take into account the effect too, the one counters the reason it was triggered best.

[Zaealix]

In the view of the way this mechanic works, I almost can't help but imagine this buff to  's heal
normal: 3|2 for 20 HP. Flat, and rather vanilla for a spell.
However, instead...One could go in this direction:
3|2  for 20 HP, autocasts for free if you take 10 or more damage in a turn.
Now, it's a bit more akin to a proper 'trap' where you can manually use it at will, or let it's effect occur and gain a quanta advantage on the opponent...Orrr
3|2  for 20 HP, gives all creatures  +0|+2 HP if you've played 3 or more creatures this turn.
A more 'offensive' variant, one that ties into  's strengths of fast creature summoning, and counteracts CC.
The second variation is more of a 'secondary' effect unlocked by other actions, as opposed to an opportunity cost, like the original mechanic, so it's probably a bit off-topic, but hopefully I've got the right understanding of how to utilize this feature in card design.

[andretimpa]

While I don't feel there is any need to buff Heal the secondary effect idea is interesting, that is your actions in a turn so far affecting the way some cards are cast.

[Chapuz]

Needlebite Trap is comparable with Unstable Gas. Damages a good % of the opponent's total HP for a high cost.

Now, a question for MtG players: Is that 25% HP healing considerably good in MtG meta? Does the low-cost effect make it an extremely useful card?

[OldTrees]

Now, a question for MtG players: Is that 25% HP healing considerably good in MtG meta? Does the low-cost effect make it an extremely useful card?

Trap cards are designed to be:
Very inefficient if cast normally
Very efficient if triggered

A 6 cost non trap card could do 6 or more damage and healing
A 5 cost non trap card could do 5 damage with no healing
Remember that each +1 cost is more expensive than the last +1 cost in MtG

Also healing is almost as good as damage in MtG since there is no HP limit

[OdinVanguard]

Now, a question for MtG players: Is that 25% HP healing considerably good in MtG meta? Does the low-cost effect make it an extremely useful card?

Trap cards are designed to be:
Very inefficient if cast normally
Very efficient if triggered

A 6 cost non trap card could do 6 or more damage and healing
A 5 cost non trap card could do 5 damage with no healing
Remember that each +1 cost is more expensive than the last +1 cost in MtG

Also healing is almost as good as damage in MtG since there is no HP limit

Trap cards also come up heavily in Yu-Gi-OH. Instead of auto-cast, they act more like auto-trigger. (i.e. they have to be played).

There is certainly a close connection between the two though.

I think traps can be set to trigger off just about anything.

Russianspy did a whole series on autocast cards I think.

I and a handful of others have been trying to get the auto-trigger version off the ground.

The auto-trigger version is a bit harder to do well since to be truly effective they need to remain concealed.
There are some issues to consider for effective concealement:
1) Quanta usage will tip off opponent that something has been played.
--- A well versed and observant opponent can deduce what it was from the amount and type used.
--- This can be compensated for a little if there are many traps that have the same cost... but that takes a lot of new cards
2) Trap identity must be concealed.
---Invisibility is one option.
---"Facedown" may be another.
------Again, this requires a wide variety of traps to help keep opponent guessing
---Mimicry (looking like a different card to opponent) could also be an option.

[Drake_XIV]

Traps... sounds like my Instinct series...