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Offline ratcharmerTopic starter

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When are two ideas too similar? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=12546.msg157859#msg157859
« on: September 13, 2010, 04:52:05 pm »
A few recent (or less recent) events have started me wondering about this: at what point are two card ideas too close together, and only one of them should be in the crucible?

A couple of cases to illustrate what I'm talking about:
-The recent debate in the armory of Blue Mage versus Identity Thief. They're both similar ideas, but in different elements. The author of Blue Mage was upset that Identity Thief was advancing faster than their own card even though it was a very similar idea.

-A while back someone suggested a time spell to "reset" a creature to it's newly-summoned state. I commented that one of my permanent ideas in the crucible had an ability that did just that, and that I was pretty certain there had been a creature with that ability suggested at some point as well as another spell. The thread was then locked, which I actually feel kinda bad about since it appears that neither the spell nor the creature version was ever pursued into the crucible, so I feel like the card concept is sort of "blocked" now.

-Recently, I made a card idea I was quite excited about, filled in the whole table etc. made the card image- complete with a picture I made specifically for that card, and even went so far as to work out in detail exactly how the card would interact with every card it effects. Then, when I went to post it, I how that literally the post before mine was a card with a nearly identical concept. Normally I would just scrap my card, re-use the image and jump in support of it's twin, but the author of that card does not seem to have pursued it into the crucible, and, to be honest, I don't particularly care for the way they executed the concept.

-Tiger Mount and Trojan Horse in the crucible for gravity, and while both were decent cards neither has done very well in the polls (I think one has even been archived). I feel that this is at least in part because there were two extremely similar card concepts on the same poll, so they split between them the votes of all the people who like that concept.

These are some of the specifics I'm wondering about:
-How big of a change is "different enough"? If there are two cards with similar concepts but different mechanics is that ok? what about a permanent and a creature that do the same thing?

-If you like a card idea that's in pre-crucible stages, but the author doesn't seem to be pursuing the idea anymore, is it ok to make your own version? If so how long should you wait? If not, then what should you do?

Offline Hyroen

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Re: When are two ideas too similar? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=12546.msg157881#msg157881
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 05:24:18 pm »
In the end, I think as long as you and the other person who suggest the card are fine with the two being similar it ends up being an honourable fight to see who did it best.

If you received inspiration, and I mean legitimate inspiration from someone who suggested some time back, credit them and their creativity.

If the card is in the Crucible Archives, clearly people didn't really like it, or didn't like it enough for it to have survived the competition. Spruce it up without making it too complicated. State that you were inspired from the old idea, thank the original creator and accept that you are only reviving the idea, not exactly making one.

If a party is clearly not happy with the predicament of your card looking a lot like theirs, it's a good idea to:

1) See who made it first, they obviously get to keep their card the way it is.
2) Change the name of your card, the art, in essence, make it different.
3) Explain the significant difference of your card (if one exists) and how its contribution to a deck (preferably more than 1 example) would be different from the contribution of the other card.

Looking at it from afar, ideas in this forum have two intertwined goals, to enrich and expand Elements the Game, and to provide an overflowing well of ideas for Zanzarino to browse through, get inspired and see how cards mesh with in-game mechanics, or may even inspire Zanzarino to create new in-game mechanics. Upon the realization that all concept makers, artists and organizers have 1 goal in common, to improve the game we all know and love, respect to each others' ideas will come naturally and you will know what to do when the time comes.
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Scaredgirl

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Re: When are two ideas too similar? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=12546.msg158873#msg158873
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 04:06:48 am »
These are some of the specifics I'm wondering about:
-How big of a change is "different enough"? If there are two cards with similar concepts but different mechanics is that ok? what about a permanent and a creature that do the same thing?
There is no definite answer to this. All we can do is use common sense. If you think a previous idea might be too close to yours, just tweak your own idea a bit.

Game mechanics is the key here. Similar concepts is not a big deal as long as game mechanics are different.


-If you like a card idea that's in pre-crucible stages, but the author doesn't seem to be pursuing the idea anymore, is it ok to make your own version? If so how long should you wait? If not, then what should you do?
As a rule of thumb, remaking an old idea should be avoided. It's generally easy to tweak your own idea so that game mechanics are different. It's also easy to come up with something totally different.

I guess that if the previous idea was made like 6 months ago and the person who had the idea has since disappeared, you can remake the idea. But you have to mention that it's a remake and you have to include a link to the original topic.


2) Change the name of your card, the art, in essence, make it different.
This is 100% incorrect. Name of the card or its art has zero significance in making your card unique. Those two things don't matter at all, so changing them makes no difference what so ever. If you want to make your card more unique, you need to change game mechanics.

Offline Hyroen

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Re: When are two ideas too similar? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=12546.msg159005#msg159005
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 01:12:41 pm »
2) Change the name of your card, the art, in essence, make it different.
This is 100% incorrect. Name of the card or its art has zero significance in making your card unique. Those two things don't matter at all, so changing them makes no difference what so ever. If you want to make your card more unique, you need to change game mechanics.
Haha, not quite incorrect SG. Please read the post thoroughly before calling something incorrect. I'm not trying to make people revolutionize the Elements world as we know it, if I was of course I would add that people should think of different game mechanics. I'm saying if 2 people have the same idea that they could:
2) Change the name of your card, the art, in essence, make it different.
Because you may not want to knowingly be making the same card someone else already thought of.
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