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Offline ratcharmerTopic starter

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What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg128201#msg128201
« on: July 30, 2010, 10:04:42 pm »
Okay the title basically says it all.

What areas are each of the elements lacking? Does :light need creature control? Or does :darkness need more creatures?

Post here to share your thoughts.

My own initital response is this: something other than :earth needs a way to prevent permanent control. I think that one of the key reasons almost exclusively rainbows are used against FGs is that since so many FGs have lots of permanent control you can't have a strong anti-FG deck without being able to protect permanents.

Since mono- :earth doesn't have a lot of options for anti-FG most people go for a rainbow so they can splash the PAs into whatever strategy they want.

Note that the most popular non-rainbow strategy (Hope/fractal RoL) revolves around an indestructible permanent.

This could also apply to some of the other key anti-FG components: anti-deckout, and maybe protecting creatures.

(although I honestly think we need a few more ways to hurt immortalized creatures, immortal oty is a nasty combo)

guolin

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130113#msg130113
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 03:35:18 am »
These are all suggestions to improve the mono version of these elements. Duos, Trios, and Rainbows do not count in my reasoning of these suggestions.

 :aether - More creatures, especially to make Turquoise Nypmh useful. High-cost attacker that is not Immaterial like Phase Dragon.
 :air - Cheap attacker that does not need Dive to be useful. Either that, or a Mono-air buff card so that the Wyrm could encourage mono-Air.
 :darkness - I think Darkness is fine atm. It has perm control, creature control, direct damage spell, healing, and quanta denial. It's also capable of handling itself in Duos.
 :death - Death handles itself well like Darkness...except having permanent control.
 :earth - Earth's creatures need nerfs - then we'll talk. :)
 :entropy - Mechanically, I would say Entropy needs reliability. Aesthetically? Hell no - more randomness please. :D
 :fire - Moar quanta production - Cremations and Brimstones aren't enough to power Fire Bolts, Fahrenheit, and Crimson Dragons, heh. Alternatively, a cheap mono-fire attacker that does not consume even more quanta over time.
 :gravity - Gravity needs an unnuped creature with a good damage-cost ratio big time. Unupped Gravity rush fails.
 :life - Moar healing for them EM's.
 :light - More reliable creature control would be nice, yeah.
 :time - Time needs an attacker, really.
 :water - Perm control would be very nice. More rush and control please. But then again, I'm biased, since my favorite element is Water, heh.

Retribution

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130116#msg130116
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 03:40:27 am »
In my opinion, life needs more cards that heal. Life sounds more like healing than light does. Yet light's capabilities in this area are so much greater.

 :aether More damage
 :air More cards that utilize dive
 :darkness Perfect at the moment
 :death More creature control
 :earth Perfect at the moment
 :entropy More chaotic things. More random effects.
 :fire Perfect at the moment.
 :gravity Needs more creatures that utilize momentum and also overall damage and control.
 :life Stated above
 :light Control capabilities
 :time Damage
 :water Perfect at the moment.

Offline killsdazombies

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130117#msg130117
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 03:40:45 am »
life needs a spam creature, i like diet sodas "creaping vine (if i can find it ill put it here)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5349.0.html since diet soda died, i think ill actually make it into a card.

guolin

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130297#msg130297
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 03:51:11 pm »

Offline nilsieboy

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130298#msg130298
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 03:55:12 pm »
guolin,you know i love water to but if you think it is good at the moment,we have everything because we're just awesome
:gravity nilsieboy :gravity
I wondered why the titan was getting bigger, then it hit me. ~gravity
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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130357#msg130357
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 06:24:08 pm »
It's a little bit weird looking at this topic, since no element really needs anything. I will admit though that Aether DOES 'need' more cards sometime in the future to help open its strategy, but that's a whole different story altogether. Quantity isn't equal to quality; that said, some elements seem to have it better than others and are already ahead of the curve in terms of having reliable/strong synergies with other elements based off the cards that they can mix up with.


 :aether - Cards that reflect more of the 'celestial' theme rather than electricity. Preferably a new stand-alone permanent. Perhaps even a creature that will radically change in its mechanic if someone attempts to immortalize it, or a card that can 'phase' through shields automatically, rendering it invulnerable to all attacks (including reactive damage from shields and poisons).
 :air - Soft permanent control, or a specialized permanent to gain benefit from having multiple Air creatures out. Maybe another mid-hitter.
 :darkness - Either a really expensive hard-hitting creature or a unique shield (that doesn't rely on chance).
 :death - Additional low-attack creatures, another permanent that can combine well with either Graveyard or Malignant Cells, or a creature that gains benefit FROM being poisoned. Possibly even a spell that can affect 'immortalized' creatures.
 :earth - Technically fine as is. Might use another very low attack creature (similar to Antlion's attack upgraded).
 :entropy - Also relatively fine, although they could use another mid-hitting creature (I don't count Abominations because they're odd to handle).
 :fire - Again, fairly fine. Maybe a type of reactive permanent protection.
 :gravity - More mid-hitters than don't need Momentum to work. Permanents. Spells that aren't based on (de)buffing a creature or taking quanta.
 :life - Creatures with unusual forms of healing or creature control. Hard hitters. Possible permanent protection.
 :light - Creature control possibly, but it's almost fine as is. A definite improvement to Solar Buckler can give variety to people who want to try different shields. Perhaps they should be given a special permanent to allow quanta generation of all types, and thus make Light a possible 'Mark' for rainbows.
 :time - Permanent protection, and a decent amount of mid-to-heavy hitters. A shield that doesn't have to rely on SoG's in order to compensate for the amount of damage that's coming in at a time. Valuable forms of creature control to irritate the enemy. Better spell cards to improve card drawing techniques and mechanics, as well as cards to improve Time's quanta generation issues. Finally, new creatures that may require other elements for unique synergy and to open up possibilities for Time other than being the 'main' element for stalling rainbow decks.
 :water - Slight permanent control. Perhaps cards to help generate Water quanta faster?


Obviously I favor Time more than the other elements, but I think that based on synergies alone, Earth, Entropy, and Fire probably have some of the best combination decks to defeat elements (as well as having cards that work well with other cards from other elements).


guolin,you know i love water to but if you think it is good at the moment,we have everything because we're just awesome
Water does have a lot of cards in its inventory. ^^;;; People still haven't unlocked the 'secrets' of Steam Machine as well, considering it's only been out for less than a month I believe.

guolin

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130416#msg130416
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 07:50:45 pm »
guolin,you know i love water to but if you think it is good at the moment,we have everything because we're just awesome
Unupped Mono-water feels a little lacking. Note: Mono-water. Chrysaora, Toadfish (I'd prefer to use his ability, thank you very much), and Steam Machine aren't bad at all, but stuff like Blue Crawler, Ice Dragon, and stuff are just meh. I really don't want to dip into Fire just for permanent control, which is the reason why I made Erosion and Glacier in the Card Ideas section.

cebra

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130422#msg130422
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 07:59:01 pm »
 :air - Needs something to make use of the airborne ability(except Wings). Maybe something like, making the flying creatures stronger?
 :time - Needs definitly a strong mid-range attacker

The other elements fit in my opinion

And by the way, it´s important in my opinion that the elements stay different. It would be boring if every element had creature and permanent control.

Retribution

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130428#msg130428
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 08:10:34 pm »
Not every element needs permanent control and creature control, you know.

RedWarrior0

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg130467#msg130467
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 09:24:40 pm »
Time seems more of a control/drawing but low damage element.
Aether seems to be cards that are useful in varieties of situations
Darkness seems to be a "Benefit off opponent loss" deal
Water seems to be going in the "Synergy with all elements" direction. Needs ​:darkness​​:entropy​​:gravity​​:light​​:time
Air is one that I don't know much about; seems a little generic
Entropy is somewhat random, but not enough
Fire seems to employ the "Glass Cannon" trope.
Life needs more creaturespam and healing
Light seems a little weak, and it can certainly have its uses
Earth needs a nerf
Gravity also needs a more clearly defined theme in its playstyle. It has quantum denial, protection, shield bypass, devour.

With some of them, mouseover the text for a little bit of a description on why I think what I typed.

guolin

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Re: What does each element need? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10451.msg131762#msg131762
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 02:23:10 pm »
Not every element needs permanent control and creature control, you know.
Some elements just aren't rushy enough to beat the enemy before enemy permanents fly out. Either they are control-based, like Water, or just too darn slow, like unupped Gravity. (Even though Shields don't hurt them, other permanents like SoG do)

 

anything
blarg: