Sailing the Seven Seas - A discussion about Water

[OldTrees]

3) I would like Water to have more major mechanical themes. Freeze is well developed, Alchemy could be embellished more and I cannot think of a third.

Underwater creatures, maybe? (Shard of Patience, Flooding)

Reliance on a single card does not a mechanical theme make. For underwater to be a major mechanical theme there will need to be a second source of standing water.

[mega plini]

Reliance on a single card does not a mechanical theme make. For underwater to be a major mechanical theme there will need to be a second source of standing water.

then we should make such a card. I can't see the problem realy

[Tiko]

I'm still wondering about the continious debate of Flooding..

This is not the card Water is based on, and it shouldn't be; it's only another 'tool' in its repertoire and I strongly believe it should be left that way. Also, it recieved quite a buff recently with the increased slots it cancels (which was one of the best things that could've happened to it, especially considering all the random suggestions thrown around in the 'Buff this..' topic(s)) and with the addition of the mass-buff potential of SoP; despite that the latter is not working as efficiently as it was meant to. I cannot voice my opinion enough, that this way now it functions greatly for what it was created for, particularly when combined with Water's other creature-control options. Just spend some time playing with it, and you'll see.

I see three areas Water can be greatly improved.
1) I would like Mono Water to have more options.
2) I would like Water to have more quanta basis support for its non Mono options.
3) I would like Water to have more major mechanical themes. Freeze is well developed, Alchemy could be embellished more and I cannot think of a third.

I completely agree with OldTrees here, and I'm really curious how could the theme of Alchemy be enhanced.

[mega plini]

For me flooding isn't just "a tool" but one of the cards with the most flavor in the entire game. That's why I think there should be more interactions with it.
I'm not saying this is my goal, on the contrary, I believe that the cards water need should be focused around flooding because of it's awesome flavor but they should also contribute to reach the main goal which is, in my oppinion that is, to enhence it's mono options. LIke Old trees Says, it is important. I believe flooding can be one of those options.
@oldtrees: Flooding could be this third mecanic you're looking for!
I realise that not all of  problems can be solved with flooding (or a card that interacts with flooding). Concernig the quanta issues for exemple.
@master of water: What do you think should be our major priority, creating a new stable  quanta source or an entire new mecanic?

[OldTrees]

For me flooding isn't just "a tool" but one of the cards with the most flavor in the entire game. That's why I think there should be more interactions with it.
I'm not saying this is my goal, on the contrary, I believe that the cards water need should be focused around flooding because of it's awesome flavor but they should also contribute to reach the main goal which is, in my oppinion that is, to enhence it's mono options. LIke Old trees Says, it is important. I believe flooding can be one of those options.
@oldtrees: Flooding could be this third mecanic you're looking for!
I realise that not all of  problems can be solved with flooding (or a card that interacts with flooding). Concernig the quanta issues for exemple.
@master of water: What do you think should be our major priority, creating a new stable  quanta source or an entire new mecanic?

Underwater like Airborne could be greatly expanded. However the Underwater theme must not require the card Flooding. Preferably it would also expand beyond Floods as a source of standing water.

[Tiko]

@master of water: What do you think should be our major priority, creating a new stable  quanta source or an entire new mecanic?

An alternate quanta source would help out the already existing cards, so I believe it should come first. A new (balanced and also fitting) mechanic for Water would mostly support future additions to the game.

Underwater (aquatic) as a passive could be a nice touch, though I think it'd be too limited to the element itself. Unlike Airborne or Ranged, it'd be hard and somewhat strange to suit creatures from various elements with this attribute.

[darkrobe]

I posted this in the other topic. But to elaborate here. My basic view of water is the following:

Water can deform to fit any container. this leads to a lack of self identity where any duo using water resembles (thematically) the non water element more so than the water element.  -> high damage growth.    -> poison buildup. Nymph tears -> other element specific ability.  -> earthquake. Drop the water from those duos and they still make thematic sense. the water is unnecessary. Water needs central themes that other elements can bring out, rather than those elements being expressed in water.

I believe that certain water themes have been underdeveloped. the Freeze/frozen theme is the exception.

The Alchemy connection is rather weak: nymph tears is good. but thats about it. what about scrying pools or tracer fluids or controling flow of the game? The thematics are there, but the cards are not.

The real weakness I see is that the flooding/drowning/underwater theme has been left completely undeveloped. Which is odd because it is something I think would be the highlght of water. This should be the 3rd theme that OT was trying to think up. I believe the issue is that Flooding (the card) sucks all the creative juices out of the theme, because it puts together everything that would be in that theme in one card. Death by drowning, water cards underwater, field control, etc. Any card that tries to break into the Flooding/underwater theme, will run into the issue that it will seem to need to be paired with flooding. and although flooding could use some more combo cards. Water as an element needs more card based around oceans and water and drowning that are not reliant on flooding (the card).

[OdinVanguard]

Thanks for starting a topic like this.


Also, it's been a while since I came to the convinction that what Water really needs is a unique, new quanta producer. Sort of like a new Nova or Immolation, only suited for Water (I think a synergy / trio quanta producer would be great). Without entering in too much details as you don't wish to discuss of card ideas, would you agree that a quanta producer would be a good addition / complement to this element's arsenal?

I had a couple ideas for increased water quanta production:
1)  Refractive Mist Shield: Immaterial, Reduce all incoming damage except direct creature and weapon attacks by 50%. Every point of damage prevented by mist shield adds 1 and 1  to your quanta pool.
2) Abysal stores: while flooding is in play, each water creature you control that has no active ability and is in a flooded region produces 1 per turn and increases your  cap by 1. (obviously intended crawlers but will also make opponents think twice before using lobotomize) Art work could be some kind of atlantis looking underwater structure / city

[Pineapple]

Thanks for starting a topic like this.


Also, it's been a while since I came to the convinction that what Water really needs is a unique, new quanta producer. Sort of like a new Nova or Immolation, only suited for Water (I think a synergy / trio quanta producer would be great). Without entering in too much details as you don't wish to discuss of card ideas, would you agree that a quanta producer would be a good addition / complement to this element's arsenal?

I had a couple ideas for increased water quanta production:
1)  Refractive Mist Shield: Immaterial, Reduce all incoming damage except direct creature and weapon attacks by 50%. Every point of damage prevented by mist shield adds 1 and 1  to your quanta pool.
2) Abysal stores: while flooding is in play, each water creature you control that has no active ability and is in a flooded region produces 1 per turn and increases your  cap by 1. (obviously intended crawlers but will also make opponents think twice before using lobotomize) Art work could be some kind of atlantis looking underwater structure / city

I don't believe this thread is meant for collecting card ideas. If you wish to present card ideas to the community, it would be more apt for you to submit them to The Smithy (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5039.msg56336#msg56336).