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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Tidal Flux Shield https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48506.msg1060155#msg1060155
« on: April 15, 2013, 07:31:39 pm »
I had an idea for a new :water shield. The idea is that it would spread damage out over time rather than actually reducing it.
I.e. it would absorb a percentage of damage from all sources. It would then release some of that damage at the end of each of its owner's turn.

The amount absorbed is rounded up and starts small but can be increased by stacking more shields (i.e. the shield is stackable)

Lastly, the owner can use :time quanta to slowly lower the amount released each turn down to some minimum.

Here is the first draft:



I could use some help
1) Balancing out the various percentages
2) Figuring out what to do with stored damage if the shield is destroyed or stack size reduced.
3) Any art ideas / suggestions would be good since I don't have any good ideas for it yet.
4) Any other feedback on balance, theme, etc. is also welcome

This idea is almost ready for smithy, but I thought the idea of spreading out damage was a cool mechanic that could possibly be used elsewhere which is why I posted here first.
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Offline andretimpa

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Re: Tidal Flux Shield https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48506.msg1060164#msg1060164
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2013, 08:02:36 pm »
It's kinda similar to your Dilation Shield. That idea was a good one, even though it seemed a bit complicated.

I think the best way to deal with destruction of the shield would be to deal a percentage of the damage held by that shield, while the rest of the damage it held is ignored.
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Offline Annele

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Re: Tidal Flux Shield https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48506.msg1060241#msg1060241
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 01:43:13 am »
The card's text is a bit messy with all those percentages - why not just say 'some absorption' or something and leave the percentages in the notes? It may make it easier to understand, and not all cards say their percentage. Ice Shield, for one, doesn't.
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Offline OdinVanguardTopic starter

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Re: Tidal Flux Shield https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48506.msg1060250#msg1060250
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 01:58:14 am »
The card's text is a bit messy with all those percentages - why not just say 'some absorption' or something and leave the percentages in the notes? It may make it easier to understand, and not all cards say their percentage. Ice Shield, for one, doesn't.

You do have a point there. It made it easier for discussion purposes to leave them on, but I can reword it for clarity when / if I post it to smithy.

Any ideas wrt to balancing?
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Offline stereohelix

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Re: Tidal Flux Shield https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48506.msg1061448#msg1061448
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 02:23:58 am »
Hey OdinVanguard.

I think this is a really cool idea conceptually and seems fun to play. I've been mulling over the balance for a bit and had the following thoughts:

Spoiler for lots of theorycrafting:
Maybe you could approach balance by looking at how other comparable shields reduce damage over time. There are four other permanent shields in the game that only reduce damage and have a fixed cost: shield (generic), diamond/titanium, fog, and dusk. Costs are:

unupped:
1DR: 1 :rainbow
2DR: 4 :earth
40%: 2 :air
50%: 6 :darkness

upped:
2DR: 5 :rainbow
3DR: 6 :earth
40%: 1 :air
50%: 4 :darkness

Average unupped creature damage is just under 4, and average upped creature damage is just over 5 (assuming an even distribution of creatures.) So if we wanted a more complete picture, we could compare these shields based on average damage reduced:

unupped:
1DR: 1 :rainbow
1.6DR: 2 :air
2DR: 4 :earth or 6 :darkness

upped:
2DR: 5 :rainbow or 1 :air
2.5DR: 4 :darkness
3DR: 6 :earth

For your shield, you might shoot for an average of about 50% DR for a cost of four :water, or for 17% DR (~.6|.8DR), a cost of less than 1 :water -- which probably means your prototype damage reduction is too low.

Next you would want to think about the time aspect. If you assume that a game lasts some average amount of time after a shield is played -- lets say 5 rounds -- you could balance the damage over time based on this. Compared with other shields with the same overall cost (including :time spent), your shield should have a similar average effective damage reduction after five rounds. You could calculate the average by assuming the same incoming damage each turn.

Some possibilities might be:

6 :water|4 :water Absorb 80% damage (~4DR). Deals 15% of damage absorbed each turn (~50%/2.5DR after 5 turns).
5 :water|3 :water Absorb 60% damage (~3DR). Deals 10% of damage absorbed each turn (~45%/2.2DR after 5 turns).
3 :water|2 :water Absorb 40% damage (~2DR). Deals 5% of damage absorbed each turn (~35%/1.8DR after 5 turns).

Of course you could also switch the wording around:

6 :water|4 :water Absorb 4 damage. Deals 1 damage each turn for every 7 absorbed.
5 :water|3 :water Absorb 3 damage. Deals 1 damage each turn for every 10 absorbed.
3 :water|2 :water Absorb 2 damage. Deals 1 damage each turn for every 20 absorbed.

When you change it to numbers rather than percentages, you can see that the :time skill makes more sense for a higher absorb shield, that the stacking idea makes more sense for a flat-reduction shield, and that the damage over time should be relatively high for the :time skill reduction to make a significant contribution (at least 1dmg/turn).
Considering all of this, I might suggest something like:

3 :water|2 :water Absorb 3 damage per stack. Deals 1 damage each turn for every 3 absorbed.
:time Balance/Align/Sustain/Endure: reduce damage per turn by 2.

or

4 :water|3 :water Absorb 4 damage per stack. Deals 1 damage each turn for every 4 absorbed.
:time Balance/Align/Sustain/Endure: reduce damage per turn by 2.

An interesting side effect of this is cost-effectiveness when absorbing low amounts of damage over time or sudden spikes of damage, but relatively poor at mitigating heavy sustained damage -- which makes it good for a control style deck -- what you might expect from water/time.


Also, I think it would be cool to put a :time poison marker on the shield for the damage over time. =)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:47:43 pm by stereohelix »
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