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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Design Theory => Topic started by: EmeraldTiger on January 07, 2012, 05:52:22 pm

Title: Elemental Themes
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 07, 2012, 05:52:22 pm
This may be incorrect to some degree but a beginning is a good thing.

:aether Aether is immortality, duplication, dimensions and there are also things that affect the mind.
:air Air is Evasion and Freedom.
:darknessShadows, Stealth, and the manipulation of opponent's resources.
:deathDecay, Death affects, undead.
:earthProtection, Fortitude.
:entropyChaos, Biased Luck, Thermodynamics.
:fireDestruction, Passion, Burning
:gravityMass, Order, Technology.
:lifeReproduction, Growth, Maintain life.
:lightHoly, Healing, Ignoring the opponent.
:timeEgypt, Clocks, Game speed, Deck and card
:waterIce, Synergy, Patience
I wish to use this in order to know what can be used when making Mono and Hybrid card ideas. If anyone has something they wish to add to this, please do so.

What themes do the following create as hybrids?
What existing themes do they have in common?
:aether/ :air
:aether/ :darkness
:aether/ :death
:aether/ :earth
:aether/ :entropy
:aether/ :fire
:aether/ :gravity
:aether/ :life
:aether/ :light
:aether/ :time
:aether/ :water
:air/ :darkness
:air/ :death
:air/ :earth
:air/ :entropy
:air/ :fire
:air/ :gravity
:air/ :life
:air/ :light
:air/ :time
:air/ :water
:darkness/ :death
:darkness/ :earth
:darkness/ :entropy
:darkness/  :fire
:darkness/ :gravity
:darkness/ :life
:darkness/ :light
:darkness/ :time
:darkness/ :water
:death/ :earth
:death/ :entropy
:death/  :fire
:death/ :gravity
:death/ :life
:death/ :light
:death/ :time
:death/ :water
:earth/ :entropy
:earth/  :fire
:earth/ :gravity
:earth/ :life
:earth/ :light
:earth/ :time
:earth/ :water
:entropy/  :fire
:entropy/ :gravity
:entropy/ :life
:entropy/ :light
:entropy/ :time
:entropy/ :water
:fire/ :gravity
:fire/ :life
:fire/ :light
:fire/ :time
:fire/ :water
:gravity/ :life
:gravity/ :light
:gravity/ :time
:gravity/ :water
:life/ :light
:life/ :time
:life/ :water
:light/ :time
:light/ :water
:time/ :water
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 08, 2012, 08:58:42 pm
I try to use a Arch(General 1, 2, 3) theme system for elements
 :aether Immaterial, Copy, Psionics
 :air Freedom (Movement, Evasion, Maneuverability)
 :darkness Manipulate the enemy (Deception, Drain, Compulsion?)
 :earth Strength (Protect, Break)
 :water Freeze, Alchemy, Aquatic
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 08, 2012, 09:24:10 pm
How is the layout? Am I asking the right questions
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Anarook on January 08, 2012, 09:34:52 pm
Something I've been tyring to fight for
 :fire - purification
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 08, 2012, 10:44:38 pm
How is the layout? Am I asking the right questions
"What themes do the following create as hybrids?"
This would be misunderstood as Duo
"What existing themes do they have in common?"
This would be understood as hybrid
"Where do these elements overlap?"
This is hybrid

Something I've been tyring to fight for
 :fire - purification
I agree that destructive purification is a subtheme of Fire's destruction arch theme
Destruction (Destroy, Sacrifice, Purify)

To start things off:
Aether/Air :aether/ :air
Lightning: Aether uses electricity. Air controls storms. Both use Lightning.
Out of reach: Aether hides in another dimension. Air retreats to the sky. Both can retreat out of reach.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 10, 2012, 01:52:29 am
NAME:
Demo 1
ELEMENT:
ElementA or ElementB
COST:
2 :elementA or :elementB
NAME:
Demo 2
ELEMENT:
HybridAB
COST:
2 :hybridAB
Which represents a better format?
Which is cleaner?
Which is easier to understand?

Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Naesala on January 10, 2012, 02:16:23 am
For now just watching this, will come back later with some suggestions
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Bhlewos on January 10, 2012, 02:17:12 am
I prefer Demo A because it's easier to understand.

As for the themes listed I would add Mechanics to Gravity - Mechanics being "the physics concerned with the behavior of physical bodies" - including such concepts as Momentum and Acceleration. Gravity Pull could also be argued as being part of Mechanics because it represents a gravitational Force in between two objects.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 10, 2012, 02:23:02 am
I prefer Demo A

 :earth/ :fire
Shatter Earth breaks. Fire destroys.

 :death/ :life
Poison Death uses decay of target. Life grows the infection.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Daguerreo on January 15, 2012, 08:04:42 pm
 :water is calm, fluidity, adaptability, source of life, purification.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 18, 2012, 05:17:07 am
Water can submerge itself to escape. Whether what chases it catches it depends on what chases it.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Freefall357 on January 18, 2012, 05:46:52 am
:death/ :life
Poison Death uses decay of target. Life grows the infection.
just :death = decay

:death/ :life
Infestation, Infection
A Virus, Fungus, Destructive Growth/Life..,Life spreading through and feeding off of everything to produce new/more life.
-This deck can infect your opponents field with multiplying viruses and pestilent corpses, while your side fills with creatures with poison stingers and the animated bones of your fallen enemy.
"I am not taking your life, I am re-purposing it for the benefit of all, don't you see?"

 :entropy/ :darkness
Psychosis? Fears and Monsters that exist in the mind of a child made real...
-this deck can cause randomness under a shroud of darkness, leaving the opponent unsure of what to expect
"what truly lurks in the darkness under the bed and behind closed closet doors..."

 :life/ :time
Epoch
The evolution of all things, be they ideas or lifeforms
-These decks will slow your opponent while your army has time to grow and bloom until it is beyond control.
"Give it time..."

 :time/  :death
Inevitability
The end...The inexorable advance toward oblivion.
-These decks will hold your opponent as your undead forces pound them into the dust. Alternately, they will stack poison onto the opponent rushing him in a race against his own mortality...
"...and in the end, nothing."

 :darkness/ :time
Secrets
Mystery, Manipulation
-This deck can use precog to know what you opponent is up to, it can use cloak so he will not know what you are up to.  You can mess with his hand and his draws.  You can make his cards work for you.  You can make his HP work for you...
"Your mind is like an open book...and I am the author..."

 :time/ :aether
Intangible Forces
Fate, The marionette-strings that move the universe.
-This one is similar to Darkness/Time, but it has a much stronger focus on stealing, manipulating, and protecting creatures.  Returning enemy creatures to their decks after you copy them, or returning your own injured ones to yours.
"Now you see me, now you see...wait...what?"

 :earth/ :fire
Volcanic
Slow, steady, raw power.  Potential energy and a violent release.
-This deck can hold it's own with thick or burrowed creatures.  They are augmented with bursts of flame and flights of phoenixes.  As a creature damage deck, you have a constant and harder-than-average to CC group of damage dealers.  When you get built up enough, you can unburrow, summon high-damage, easily killed fire creatures and a volley of pure 'spells' to finish off a target well before he is thinking it is nearing the end.
"The ground's unyielding placidity both hid and contained the violent chaos within."


anywho, fun thread.
I am not 100% sure what you where really looking for, so I kinda tossed several thoughts into my ramblings.  I hope you find something you can use.
I look forward to people's responses, I may contribute more if I feel so compelled later.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 18, 2012, 06:04:38 am
anywho, fun thread.
I am not 100% sure what you where really looking for, so I kinda tossed several thoughts into my ramblings.  I hope you find something you can use.
I look forward to people's responses, I may contribute more if I feel so compelled later.
Remember the idea is that each of these themes would fit as a theme in either mono element.
This isn't themes described by  :death + :life
but rather by
 :death -> theme X
 :life -> theme X
 :death/ :life theme X

Also these themes do not need to be on the scale of decks. Then can be on scales smaller than cards.

 :entropy/ :darkness Fear
Pandamonium is mono :entropy Fear
Nightmare is mono :darkness Fear
Therefore Fear is part of both elements
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Freefall357 on January 18, 2012, 08:29:15 am
Remember the idea is that each of these themes would fit as a theme in either mono element.
This isn't themes described by  :death + :life
but rather by
 :death -> theme X
 :life -> theme X
 :death/ :life theme X

Also these themes do not need to be on the scale of decks. Then can be on scales smaller than cards.

 :entropy/ :darkness Fear
Pandamonium is mono :entropy Fear
Nightmare is mono :darkness Fear
Therefore Fear is part of both elements
less interesting, but doable

 :life/ :light = healing
 :life/ :death = poison
 :light/ :time = sun

like that?
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 18, 2012, 02:25:23 pm
less interesting, but doable

 :life/ :light = healing
 :life/ :death = poison
 :light/ :time = sun

like that?
Yes.

Why does Sun fit Time?
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 18, 2012, 02:28:22 pm
My first thought after catching up with this thread is, Wow this is more interesting than I thought it would be.

Would  :gravity/ :life = Growing Mass?
A common thing i see between  :light/ :time is Divine Golden things.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Naesala on January 18, 2012, 09:43:03 pm
 :aether :gravity Long living (immortal or high HP)
 :gravity :earth Protection (g. pull, armagio, shields, protect artifact)
 :darkness :water Adaptation? (water duos, darkness making use of enemy cards)
 :gravity :darkness absorbtion[theft?] (black hole, steal)
 :darkness :time Manipulation (of the hand for time, of the field for dark)
 :fire :death Destruction (nearly all cards)
 :darkness :death Evil? (more thematically)
 :life :time Speed? (more metagameish)
 :gravity :water Technology (catapult, steam machine)

some ideas, few arent great
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Freefall357 on January 19, 2012, 01:16:05 am
Yes.

Why does Sun fit Time?
The Desert theme to it...and SUNdial...in a round about way, day/night...
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 19, 2012, 01:24:19 am
Yes.

Why does Sun fit Time?
The Desert theme to it...and SUNdial...in a round about way, day/night...
Deserts are created by the gradual removal of vegetation and decay of the land. ( :time , maybe :death if you look at the decay aspect a different way)
A Sundial is a timetelling device similar to a clock, that tells  :time based on the position of  :light (sunlight, to be exact).
The actual sun is a very hot star commonly associated with :fire and :light in common mythology. Stars themselves seem to be implied to fit best in  :aether ,  :fire ,  :gravity ,  :entropy , :light , and maybe  :air or :darkness if you want to stretch the concept.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 21, 2012, 11:08:35 pm
A common theme for  :gravity :time is speed/tempo.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Daguerreo on January 22, 2012, 01:01:05 pm
 :water / :time is patience, is costancy (a drop of water which erode the rock), is a flow
 :water / :life is Mother Earth, the greatest mass generator of life.
 :water / :light is spirituality, sacrality, redemption.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 22, 2012, 01:07:43 pm
:water / :time is patience, is costancy (a drop of water which erode the rock), is a flow
 :water / :life is Mother Earth, the greatest mass generator of life.
 :water / :light is spirituality, sacrality, redemption.
Your patience example is good. Time procrastinates (Shield). Water is patient (Shard). Therefore both elements have the theme of Patience.

I am not sure if your Mother Earth example fits. That sounds more like it requires both elements to justify the theme rather than the theme existing separately in each element. (It sounds even more like it is a Mono Life theme but not a Mono Water theme.)

The same holds for your  :water +  :light example.

This thread is about  :water or  :light not  :water +  :light. The thematic intersections rather than unions if you will.
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Daguerreo on January 22, 2012, 01:09:19 pm
 :water /  :darkness is superstition, legends about curses of the ocean and creatures. Is the deepness of the ocean
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: Daguerreo on January 22, 2012, 01:14:56 pm
I am not sure if your Mother Earth example fits. That sounds more like it requires both elements to justify the theme rather than the theme existing separately in each element. (It sounds even more like it is a Mono Life theme but not a Mono Water theme.)
 :water +  :life generate a great quantity of creatures at same time. Life on Earth started inside the water, and it's evolution too.

The same holds for your  :water +  :light example.

This thread is about  :water or  :light not  :water +  :light. The thematic intersections rather than unions if you will.
Holy water? Baptism? Is theme of purification by water
Title: Re: Elemental Themes
Post by: OldTrees on January 22, 2012, 05:33:10 pm
I am not sure if your Mother Earth example fits. That sounds more like it requires both elements to justify the theme rather than the theme existing separately in each element. (It sounds even more like it is a Mono Life theme but not a Mono Water theme.)
 :water +  :life generate a great quantity of creatures at same time. Life on Earth started inside the water, and it's evolution too.

The same holds for your  :water +  :light example.

This thread is about  :water or  :light not  :water +  :light. The thematic intersections rather than unions if you will.
Holy water? Baptism? Is theme of purification by water
This thread is about  :water or :life not  :water +  :life. This is a critical distinction. That said, you have convinced me about  :water or  :life having armies of creatures.

If you had left it at purification I would agree with you on  :water or :light. It was the broader themes of spirituality, sacrality and redemption that I thought required holy to be added to water.

:water /  :darkness is superstition, legends about curses of the ocean and creatures. Is the deepness of the ocean
How can legendary water beasts be a Darkness theme? A legendary water beast would never be a Mono Darkness card.
Instead of "deepness of the ocean" perhaps "obscuring vision" with algae (water) or with darkness (darkness)
Superstition and Curses about the ocean would fit in either Water or Darkness

Thank you for your contributions and your explanation of them.
blarg: