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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg225987#msg225987
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2010, 05:43:20 pm »
I'm back

So

Ambush

Typical damage for N ambushers with the attack=c each is cN+N(N-1)/2
Either can be balanced with fractal or without fractal but probably not both
High cost would discourage fractal but the incredible increases in damage may convince otherwise.
Susceptible to Damage prevention (DR, Miss Chance, Freezing)
CreaturesExtra DamageExtra Damage/Creature
100
210.5
331
461.5
5102
6152.5
7213
8283.5
9364
10454.5
11555
12665.5
13786
14916.5
151057
161207.5
171368
181538.5
191719
201909.5
2121010
2223110.5
2325311
Phasing N,M

Creatures can start either phased in (targetable) or phased out (untargetable).
I think the cost should be based on the average turns that the opponent has to wait to use CC.
Average turns to wait (M)(M+1)/2(N+M)
N\M1234567
11/23/36/410/515/621/728/8
21/33/46/510/615/721/828/9
31/43/56/610/715/821/928/10
41/53/66/710/815/921/1028/11
51/63/76/810/915/1021/1128/12
61/73/86/910/1015/1121/1228/13
71/83/96/1010/1115/1221/1328/14
N\M1234567
10.501.001.502.002.503.003.50
20.330.751.201.672.142.633.11
30.250.601.001.431.882.332.80
40.200.500.861.251.672.102.55
50.170.430.751.111.501.912.33
60.140.380.671.001.361.752.15
70.130.330.600.911.251.622.00
This does not take the initial state into consideration. How should we factor in the initial state?
Would it be as simple as a constant x the number of turns until phase change?
(Cost reduction for phased in, cost increase for phased out)

Phase N,M
This is similar to immortality which is worth +3 quanta.
As the average turns vulnerable before the end of the game approaches 0, the value of Phase N,M approaches +3.

Debuff -N|-M
The reduced attack acts like preventative healing. (Healing is worth half equivalent damage)
The reduced HP acts like damaging CC. (Lightning Bolt sets a guideline of .4 quanta per point of damage)
So value of Debuff -N|-M as a spell is .5N+.4M.
How would the value change if it were a skill?
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Offline ArtCrusade

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg226026#msg226026
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2010, 06:40:14 pm »
Regeneration X (passive ability):

The ability triggers when the creature with the ability dies and X quanta are available. X quanta are drained and the creature regenerates all HPs & any poisoning, but keeps buffs.
Life could get a spell which can apply this passive ability to other creatures, and there can be new creatures for life which use this ability as well. It's a nice mechanic and underlines Life's survivability in nature.
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg226032#msg226032
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2010, 06:50:22 pm »
Notes on Regeneration X

Fits both Life(recovery) and Death(reanimation)
Restores current HP to full HP upon "death"
Does it still count as a death? (I would lean no)
When Regenerate is a skill it should drain the value of the regenerated creature.
Alternatively the creature could start with a higher cost and a lower regeneration
[Value 5, Cost 7, Regen cost 4]

As a spell it probably would be best as a single target spell that gives Regeneration X (X=casting cost of creature card) for a minor cost.
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Offline ArtCrusade

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg226404#msg226404
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2010, 07:06:21 am »
The death won't be counted as one, as the creature regenerates its entire health at that point. X depends on the creature's casting cost, but will not cost more than 10 :life. The spell should cost 4 :life, because it's a bit situational.

As to Ambush, I think Ambush is just fine the way you suggested, OT. This ability would rather be used for small creatures, but will only reveal its true power when connected with Fractal or TU. It'd be interesting if you could apply it to all creatures without an active ability. The ability should not just set the attack to 0, it should include buffs - including debuffs - so a blessed creature with the Ambush ability will have 3 attack instead of 0 as a base.

Phasing looks okay.

Debuffs can basically kill creatures, so we should consider that when making up numbers for spells. The cost should depend on the power of the effect, and attack-decremention should cost less than health-decremention. The question is, should debuffs be able to set a creature's attack to negative values? However, I think this can be an ability as well, but shouldn't be as strong as the spells. I suggest an ability should only debuff both 1 attack and 1 health as a maximum, and that there should be buffs as well, just like Blessing.

My suggestion for Debuff:

Debuff(-N|-M):X [N=attack, M=health, X=cost] and [X=(N+1/2)+(N+M*2)-K; (rounded down)]

Debuff(-2|0) would therefore cost 2 quanta;
Debuff(0|-2) would therefore cost 4 quanta;
Debuff(-1|-1) would therefore cost 3 quanta;
Debuff(-4|0) would therefore cost 5 quanta;
 
K is the constant. K is 1 for an ability and 2 for a spell (though it cannot reduce the cost to 0). Additionaly, this formula can be used for buffs as well, just that K for a spell would be 3.



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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg226430#msg226430
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2010, 07:30:39 am »
You're right Ambush shouldn't reduce current attack to 0 (that was copy paste error from previous version)

Good analysis of Debuff.
I think that Debuffs should be able to reduce attack to negative (some debuffs may be exceptions based upon the rest of the card's flavor)
I agree that limiting skill debuffs to -1|-1 would be best. Probably even cap it at -3|0 and 0|-3

I do not understand your formula (is there a typo?)
X=(N+1/2)+(N+M*2)-K
X=N+.5+N+2M-K
X=2N+2M+.5-K
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Offline ArtCrusade

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg226434#msg226434
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2010, 07:34:31 am »
Forgot some brackets, the formula should be ((N+1)/2)+(N+(M*2))-K
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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg228059#msg228059
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2010, 07:55:43 am »
Comments have slowed so I assume it is time to design the cards.

Here are my suggestions for Ambush and Phasing/Phase

Ambush
Type: Passive
Effect: This creature's current attack increases by 1 for each successful attack dealt to the opponent by a creature with Ambush. These increases last until the end of the turn.
Element: Aether
Cost: 3|2
Stats:1|4
Effect: Immortal, Ambush

Element: Air
Cost: 5|5
Stats: 3|4 [4|4 upgraded]
Effect: Ambush, Airborne

Element: Darkness
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 2|2
Effect: Ambush

Element: Earth
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 3|4
Effect:  :earth:Burrow, Gain Ambush while burrowed

Element: Time
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 4|4
Effect: Gains Ambush if rewound

Element: Air
Cost: 3|2
Type: Spell
Effect: Target Airborne creature gains Ambush
Phasing In N,M
Type: Passive
Effect: After N turns being untargetable this card becomes targetable for M turns. This repeats after another N turns.

Phasing Out N,M
Type: Passive
Effect: After N turns being targetable this card becomes untargetable for M turns. This repeats after another N turns.

Minor Phasing In N
Type: Passive
Effect: After N turns being untargetable this card becomes targetable.

Minor Phasing Out N
Type: Passive
Effect: After N turns being targetable this card becomes untargetable.

Phase N,M
Type: Active(Activated)
Effect: Target becomes untargetable and gains Phasing In N,M as a passive ability. This effect replaces any previous Phasing passive.

Minor Phase N
Type: Active(Activated)
Effect: Target becomes untargetable for N turns. This effect replaces any previous Phasing passive.
Element:Aether
Cost: 6|5
Stats: 2|3
Effect:  :aether:Phase 3,1 , Phasing In 4,1

Element:Aether
Cost: 2|2
Stats: 2|4 [4|4 upgraded]
Effect: Phasing In 2,1

Element: Darkness
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 2|4
Effect: Minor Phasing In 1, Gain Invisibility when phased out

Element: Darkness
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 3|3
Effect: Phasing Out 2,2

Element: Light
Cost: 3|2
Stats: 2|7
Effect:  :light:Minor Phase 3

Element: Light
Cost: 4|3
Stats: 4|3
Effect: Minor Phasing Out 3
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Offline EmeraldTiger

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg228968#msg228968
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2010, 05:30:48 am »
i'm here can't stay away.  Question about ambush; Does a certain number of creatures with the skill have to be in play for skill to work?
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg228975#msg228975
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2010, 05:46:31 am »
Ambush requires 2 creatures for the 2nd to get +1 attack for the turn.
3 creatures give the 1st +0, 2nd +1 and 3rd +2
4 creatures give the 1st +0, 2nd +1, 3rd +2 and 4th +3
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Offline EmeraldTiger

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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg230124#msg230124
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2010, 02:53:46 pm »
There is a growing concern that ideas are losing there uniqueness. How can we help?

We could use more zone manipulation affects.
The zones we have to work with.:
Deck
Hand
Creature area
Permanent area

What types of affects we have in game?
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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg230132#msg230132
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2010, 03:10:55 pm »
There is a growing concern that ideas are losing there uniqueness. How can we help?

We could use more zone manipulation affects.
The zones we have to work with.:
Deck
Hand
Creature area
Permanent area

What types of affects we have in game?
Yes ideas are starting to lose their uniqueness. This is because usually each mechanic is used once and ignored thereafter.

This thread is trying to change that as part of its goals.
First we come up with good mechanics (new or old)
Second we understand the mechanic as in depth as we can.
Third we create a series (minimum 6 cards) that show the various forms of the mechanic. (currently on this stage.)

Current agenda:
Design and critique ideas for Ambush, Phasing/Phase and Debuff. (I have made some suggestions. Please comment on them and add new suggestions.)

Once we finish the first draft (18 cards) of these three series then we can move onto the next set of ideas.
(Temporary stat adjustments, Regeneration and Zone manipulation)
or we might try to choose a theme (Zone manipulation, Quanta Generators, ...) and brainstorm mechanics that fit that theme.
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Re: Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17219.msg230140#msg230140
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2010, 03:36:18 pm »
I vote we work on Ambush cards first. Do we want a spell that grants the the skill, or only make creatures with the skill?

The other two skills can come from permanents, and even the permanents could be given some form of phasing.
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blarg: