Card Idea Engine (Communal Card Creation)

[OldTrees]

We don't want to overload this brainstorm. I expect us only being able to work on 3-4 of these at a time an still produce sufficient quality.

If there are ideas from that thread that you think are versatile enough to help boost the elements that need it then please mention those.

[Nepycros]

So far ideas
Ambush
 : Ambush
Current attack is reduced to 0.
Current attack of ___ increases by the damage each previous ___ deals.
Current attack resets to Full Attack at end of turn.
Phasing in/out N,M ? ?
Creature starts vulnerable/untargetable.
After N turns Creature becomes untargetable/vulnerable.
After M turns Creature becomes vulnerable/untargetable.
Repeat 2 & 3
Phase
Immortality with a duration
Redirection Full/Partial
Redirect All creature targeting effects
Redirect All negative creature targeting effects
Redirect All damage
Redirect the first N effects
Debuff -N|-M  ? (old age)? (Chill)
probably best saved for another batch. Only Time of the above needs a buff IMO.
Creature's current and full stats are reduced by -N|-M.

Ironically, the effect of reducing a creature's attack to 0 and passing it to another is also in the Ant series.

At the very least, we can come up with names. Perhaps we'll take a vote on elements later.

Ambush ability could be given to a creature called Shadow Walker or another kind of creature that traverses through areas of inscrutability.

Phasing could be given to Phase Beast or Dimensional Beast, if you want to go right out with it.

Redirection will definitely be given to a Guardian.

Debuff is tricky. Since there are so many different effects, perhaps it would be better left to voting.

[OldTrees]

My idea was for each new mechanic to be versatile enough that we could create a series for each one showing off the many ways in which it could be used/applied. Some mechanics will not be versatile enough to cover 6+ elements but will be versatile enough to still cover 6+ forms. The expansion, development and refinement of each mechanic into a series will determine the final elements and variants involved. Current elements listed are just examples testifying to the versatility of the ideas. (A Phase series would include both Phasing and Phase)

On Ambush
Ambush works as a multiplier
4 creatures with ambush 4|4 (blessed), 1|1, 1|1, 1|1
Vs Solar Shield
2nd, 3rd and 4th ones activate Ambush [Current Stats: 4|4, 0|1, 0|1, 0|1]
First creature attacks dealing 4-1=3 damage [Current Stats: 4|4, 3|1, 3|1, 3|1]
Second attacks 3-1=2 damage [Current Stats: 4|4, 3|1, 5|1, 5|1]
Third attacks 5-1=4 damage [Current Stats: 4|4, 3|1, 5|1, 9|1]
Fourth attacks 9-1=8 damage
Total Damage: 17

4 creatures with ambush 4|4 (blessed), 1|1, 1|1, 1|1
Vs Dusk Shield
3rd and 4th ones activate Ambush [Current Stats: 4|4, 1|1, 0|1, 0|1]
First creature attacks missing [Current Stats: 4|4, 1|1, 0|1, 0|1]
Second attacks 1=1 damage [Current Stats: 4|4, 1|1, 1|1, 1|1]
Third attacks missing [Current Stats: 4|4, 1|1, 1|1, 1|1]
Fourth attacks 1=1 damage
Total damage =2

[Pineapple]

Mechanic: temporary stat changes.
examples (some of these don't really work cuz i suck at generating ideas, but you get the point):

all last for 1 turn or until the creature attacks (or, if it's delayed/frozen, if the creature is put into action)

Aether: copies target creatures' stats
Air: already has dive, doubles attack
Darkness: Lowers target creature's attack to 1
Death: Lowers target creature's HP to 1
Earth: Increase HP by 20
Entropy: change HP and attack by somewhere between +5
Fire: Gain +3/3
Gravity: Doubles HP
Life: increases attack by number of creatures in play
Light: Gain +5/+5 for an outrageous amount of quanta
Time: Decrease target creature's atk to 0 and HP to 1 for and outrageous amount of quanta
water: Halves the target's atk.

[OldTrees]

Mechanic: temporary stat changes.
examples (some of these don't really work cuz i suck at generating ideas, but you get the point):

all last for 1 turn or until the creature attacks (or, if it's delayed/frozen, if the creature is put into action)
Aether: copies target creatures' stats
Air: already has dive, doubles attack
Darkness: Lowers target creature's attack to 1
Death: Lowers target creature's HP to 1
Earth: Increase HP by 20
Entropy: change HP and attack by somewhere between +5
Fire: Gain +3/3
Gravity: Doubles HP
Life: increases attack by number of creatures in play
Light: Gain +5/+5 for an outrageous amount of quanta
Time: Decrease target creature's atk to 0 and HP to 1 for and outrageous amount of quanta
water: Halves the target's atk.

Temporary stat changes is a good broad mechanic. It is a little too broad for the degree of dissection that is planned. Can we narrow the topic down?

On another note, there is a push for Dive to change from current attack -> 2x current attack to current attack -> Full attack + Current attack.

[EmeraldTiger]

I would like an ability that does this.

from wiki

Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to a rhetorical tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance

Sort of like the Malegolbia somewhere in this board, or like my Sentinel Ant idea in the Series section. I support it completely.

I agree that this redirection would be a good ability to refine further. It would help both new ideas and current ideas. What elements would it fit in?  any more?

I just thought of a  Passive ability Phasing: Creature/Permanent is untargetable every other round. And a creature that is phased out can pass though phase shield.

What if the ability was 3 Phase: Creature becomes immaterial for one turn for each 10 in your possession. Similar to Firebolt, but a CC counter.

I think that would work as a nice additional Skill/Spell to the original Phasing in and out ability

here is another but for
  Dehydrate: Target creature gets -#| -#
# and  cost to be determined.

I think that a debuff ability is a good idea. However Fire does not need assistance right now. However it is a neat mechanic that we can save to refine later.

So far ideas
Ambush
 : Ambush
Current attack is reduced to 0.
Current attack of ___ increases by the damage each previous ___ deals.
Current attack resets to Full Attack at end of turn.
Phasing in/out N,M ? ?
Creature starts vulnerable/untargetable.
After N turns Creature becomes untargetable/vulnerable.
After M turns Creature becomes vulnerable/untargetable.
Repeat 2 & 3
Phase
Immortality with a duration
Redirection Full/Partial
Redirect All creature targeting effects
Redirect All negative creature targeting effects
Redirect All damage
Redirect the first N effects
Debuff -N|-M  ? (old age)? (Chill)
probably best saved for another batch. Only Time of the above needs a buff IMO.
Creature's current and full stats are reduced by -N|-M.

The desert concept associated with  is a way we could implement the debuff.

[OldTrees]

Current Phase: Phase 5
We are skipping Phase 4 due to small number of ideas.
Next part is to learn everything we can about the new mechanics and how to balance them.
Ambush
Phasing
Phase
Redirect
Debuff
Temporary modifiers [A little broad, will be difficult to cover completely. Try this last?]


I will be busy for a few days. I hope that will not deter the dissection of the mechanics.

[EmeraldTiger]

I just had an idea based on the debuff affect and antimatter. What if there was a rule that said only creatures with 0hp dies, + or - hp does not die. the only twist to - hp is, -#hp is subtracted from its owners health. i'm not sure if i explained that well enough.

[OldTrees]

-HP does not make much sense to me.

Comparison of Buff to Debuff
Blessing [+3|+3] 3|2 vs Antiblessing (seen for its 3rd time I think?) [-3|-3] X|X-1

Elements is based upon 1 damage per turn = 1 quanta.

I think:
Blessing adds 3 damage per turn [+3 value] and moves the HP up 1 category on average [+1 value] but requires a creature [-1 value]

I think:
Fire Bolt does 3 damage
Drain life does 2 damage and heals 2 hp
heal yourself 2 hp = deal the opponent 1 damage?

I think:
Lightning Bolt deals 5 damage to a creature for 2 quanta
N (0<N<6) damage to a creature is worth 2N/5 quanta

Shakier ground:
So Antiblessing is -3 damage to you per turn/+3 healing per turn and 3 damage to the creature but requires a creatures (however the opponent supplies the creature so no cost reduction?).
The 3 healing is worth 1.5 quanta
The 3 CC damage is worth 1.2 quanta
So an Antiblessing is worth 2.7|1.7 or ~3|2

Does this sound reasonable?

So a -N|-M should cost .5N+.4M

[EmeraldTiger]

Sounds reasonable, but as words go i would use Hex or Curse.

[Uppercut]

Elements is based upon 1 damage per turn = 1 quanta.

Lycanthrope, graboid, all of the bolts, the dragons (which hint that different elements have different attack/cost ratio formulas), and all creatures with grow/whatever that fire equivalent to grow is that happens to just be grow minus the defense all happen to disagree with this statement.

[OldTrees]

Sounds reasonable, but as words go i would use Hex or Curse.

It was not a card suggestion but rather an attempt to dissect a theory behind debuffs. What else can we learn about them?

Elements is based upon 1 damage per turn = 1 quanta.

Lycanthrope, graboid, all of the bolts, the dragons (which hint that different elements have different attack/cost ratio formulas), and all creatures with grow/whatever that fire equivalent to grow is that happens to just be grow minus the defense all happen to disagree with this statement.

1) This is not a thread for half responses. If you do not have anything to contribute then you might as well post somewhere else. This is a thread about developing prebalanced mechanics that can then be used for higher quality cards. Debating how to balance a new mechanic is appropriate. Simply negating (especially if incomplete) the previous theory is not sufficient here or in any theory based thread. Please develop your own theory and return.
2) We have had this discussion before. There is an amazingly high correlation between attack and quanta cost for vanilla creatures. This is a relevant guideline for Buffs and Debuffs. Deviations from this baseline have reasons for such deviation. For the most basic of cards (Vanilla creatures, buffs and debuffs) this guideline is very accurate.
3) How the exceptions named are not exceptions can be explained if it is necessary however not for half responses.

One example for specators:
Fire Spirit
Cost: 2+X
Atk: 2X
Total Damage/Total Turns = X
2+X vs X is pretty close.