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Offline Zaealix

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg512126#msg512126
« Reply #564 on: June 17, 2012, 04:01:47 pm »
I'd think such a creature, would simply become suspectible to different things.
Ex. Basilisk blood would most likly insta-kill it (-20 HP), but if it didn't work, it would grant the creature adrenaline.
Adrenaline however would delay it, if we grant these two equivilance, than it would be 6 turns of delay.
I feel this creature highlights what is a perhaps a precieved weakness in buff cards, namely that they 'aren't worth the investment' or that they are too easily countered.
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg512220#msg512220
« Reply #565 on: June 17, 2012, 09:18:58 pm »
I'd think such a creature, would simply become suspectible to different things.
Ex. Basilisk blood would most likly insta-kill it (-20 HP), but if it didn't work, it would grant the creature adrenaline.
Adrenaline however would delay it, if we grant these two equivilance, than it would be 6 turns of delay.
I feel this creature highlights what is a perhaps a precieved weakness in buff cards, namely that they 'aren't worth the investment' or that they are too easily countered.
Yeah that's part of why I brought this up, buffs are underrated.
1) I have a hard time imagining a creature that would be healed by burns, beatings and bolts that would also be harmed by healing.
2) It would be really hard to remove.
3) There would be more debuffing if a debuff were added rather than a card that was debuffed by buffs.
I think the damage effect has been done before via negative hp on an undead creature. (However I could not find it)
Let me go a little more in detail with the idea.
I'm thinking a 5|1 creature that can only be killed by a heal or buff.
If we're thinking outside the box, an opponent who has Guardian Angel as a key creature is a nightmare. This is saying I've never found a particularly good reason why we can target enemies with heal.
This hypothetical creature of mine would be some kind of chaotic reverse energy monster, or possibly some kind of spirit or undead thing.   :darkness or :entropy maybe?
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg512230#msg512230
« Reply #566 on: June 17, 2012, 09:43:50 pm »
I'd think such a creature, would simply become suspectible to different things.
Ex. Basilisk blood would most likly insta-kill it (-20 HP), but if it didn't work, it would grant the creature adrenaline.
Adrenaline however would delay it, if we grant these two equivilance, than it would be 6 turns of delay.
I feel this creature highlights what is a perhaps a precieved weakness in buff cards, namely that they 'aren't worth the investment' or that they are too easily countered.
Yeah that's part of why I brought this up, buffs are underrated.
1) I have a hard time imagining a creature that would be healed by burns, beatings and bolts that would also be harmed by healing.
2) It would be really hard to remove.
3) There would be more debuffing if a debuff were added rather than a card that was debuffed by buffs.
I think the damage effect has been done before via negative hp on an undead creature. (However I could not find it)
Let me go a little more in detail with the idea.
I'm thinking a 5|1 creature that can only be killed by a heal or buff.
If we're thinking outside the box, an opponent who has Guardian Angel as a key creature is a nightmare. This is saying I've never found a particularly good reason why we can target enemies with heal.
This hypothetical creature of mine would be some kind of chaotic reverse energy monster, or possibly some kind of spirit or undead thing.   :darkness or :entropy maybe?
1) Buff cards are worth the investment
2) Having a CC use vs 1 creature would not buff the buff cards

3) Such a creature would be vulnerable to: Quint?, Heavy Armor, Basilisk Blood, Chaos Power, Adrenaline, Holy Light, Angel, Bless, Reverse Time, Purify +indirect counters
4) Heavy Armor, Holy Light, Angel and Purify are not very common and thus should not be counted as counters. Still that leaves enough counters (provided they get effects worth the higher than Lightning cost.)
5) It would usually only be removed by Basilisk Blood, Chaos Power, Bless or Reverse Time. Similar to Immaterial being removed by 3 CC shields.

6) Undead burn
7) Reverse energy sounds like it would treat all energy (mechanical, thermal, electrical, healing) the same.

The idea is definitely worth developing and submitting to the crucible after tuning.

PS: I would still recommend adding more debuff cards if the intent is to add more debuffing.
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Offline Zaealix

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg512232#msg512232
« Reply #567 on: June 17, 2012, 09:51:08 pm »
hrm...A method to turn adversity(incoming spells) into power...
Perhaps some sort of 'absorbtion?' except that does not explain the negative effects of beneficial effects...
Another idea is some sort of 'reflective' creature, like the many times you see in tales of an adventurer coming across a 'shadow' of oneself, and having to either fight and defeat it...Or somehow 'accept it'. This seems like a more fitting idea, the shadow you must 'accept', as such a thing is only strengthened by conflict, but defeated when subjected to kindness.
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg512258#msg512258
« Reply #568 on: June 17, 2012, 11:50:54 pm »
hrm...A method to turn adversity(incoming spells) into power...
Perhaps some sort of 'absorbtion?' except that does not explain the negative effects of beneficial effects...
Another idea is some sort of 'reflective' creature, like the many times you see in tales of an adventurer coming across a 'shadow' of oneself, and having to either fight and defeat it...Or somehow 'accept it'. This seems like a more fitting idea, the shadow you must 'accept', as such a thing is only strengthened by conflict, but defeated when subjected to kindness.
A spirit of conflict or something along those lines (shadow ...) could work.
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513049#msg513049
« Reply #569 on: June 20, 2012, 06:32:14 am »
More bothersome questions for the aged perennial woody plant!

Majofa did his own version of changes to the current cards. What changes would you make to the current cards? You may not add or remove any cards, only slightly rework them. What are the top 5 that you would change? How and why?

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513183#msg513183
« Reply #570 on: June 20, 2012, 04:06:24 pm »
More bothersome questions for the aged perennial woody plant!

Majofa did his own version of changes to the current cards. What changes would you make to the current cards? You may not add or remove any cards, only slightly rework them. What are the top 5 that you would change? How and why?
I have looked through Majofa's changes and for the most part found them to be positive or neutral.

Shard of Focus
Shard of Focus suffers from a few factors
1) It is overpowered. (Benefit>>Cost)
2) It damages the metagame. (Decks include or counter Shard of Focus)
3)  :rainbow becomes a much less useful cost mechanic at moderate-high costs. (Either OP with rainbow or UP with duo)
4) It is too resilience for its potent effect
There are a variety of fixes each with there own pros and cons.
I would:
Reduce the casting cost and increase the activation cost. (An activation cost should be used to balance activated abilities.)
Reduce the hp gained while maintaining the cap on uses. (Reduce the resilience)
Reduce the effect from hard PC to soft PC. (Reduces the long term effects)
Since this would be a large shift and the original was OP, I am far more confident with the direction than the actual values.
Casting Cost: 5 :rainbow|3 :rainbow
 :rainbow :rainbow: Delay a permanent 2 turns. Gain +5hp. Turn into Black Hole if hp>15
Notes:
Only the top permanent in a stack can be delayed. (Do you split to protect from Quicksand or not to protect from delay?)
Delay stacks.

Shard of Sacrifice
Shard of Sacrifice has 1 problem. Its cost and effect are in the same currency. You pay hp and get it back immediately in healing.
I would remove the hp cost, remove the useless drain clause, increase the casting cost and reduce it to 1 turn of healing (effective 2 turns of protection).
Casting Cost: 7 :rainbow|5 :rainbow

Holy Light
Holy Light is a card that swings from UP to OP depending on the opponent's Element of choice. There are 2 problems with this.
1) It is punishing a choice that I do not think should be punished. I do not think players should be penalized for their choice in element.
2) The difference between creature healing and a double strength lightning bolt is too large a swing for both to be balanced simultaneously.
I would change the effect. Holy Light is meant as a protective spell or a CC spell.
Something simple like: Target is ignores the next 2 targeted effects but will not attack this turn.
(Protects vs most CC, slow down enemy creatures and hinder cards like Fractal or Adrenaline)

Reflective Shield & Emerald Shield
Back when I joined the forum there was a deck type that only used Bolt cards as a win condition. I believe this deck type disappeared due to the addition of Reflective Shield. If this counter were nerfed as part of a berf to both cards, I think this deck type would return. (Generally the more deck types exist the better the metagame is.)
I would:
Change Reflective from blocking and reflecting to just reflecting the effects of the targeted spell.
Make more spells like Black Hole, Silence, Poison and Shard of Sacrifice count as targeted spells.
Finally I would give them both DR 1|2 for 3|5 quanta.
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Offline Shantu

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513258#msg513258
« Reply #571 on: June 20, 2012, 09:53:54 pm »
Reflective Shield & Emerald Shield
Back when I joined the forum there was a deck type that only used Bolt cards as a win condition. I believe this deck type disappeared due to the addition of Reflective Shield. If this counter were nerfed as part of a berf to both cards, I think this deck type would return. (Generally the more deck types exist the better the metagame is.

I have seen you say this in multiple places, but this is - in my opinion - false. It is usually easy to circumvent reflective shield, since you can have your own: you need only a single nova to power it. If reflective shields are unavailable to you, you will more often than not still attempt to bolt your opponent (speaking of deck choice) because of the rarity of reflective shields in pvp. Even with a reflective shield in play, Fahrenheit can still win the game for you.
The only real thing ruining (read as: hindering in the case of fire bolt) bolter decks is the quanta cap. It makes 2 out of 3 bolts nigh useless for one-turn-kill purposes. You need to have caused a serious amount of damage already to be able to OTK with them. Which is not as easy for Darkness and Water as for Fire.

If "a deck type that only used Bolt cards as a win condition" means truly bolts only (so no other sources of damage, like a Fahrenheit, which is a pretty natural addition to such a deck), I agree such decks have disappeared and what I wrote earlier can be ignored. But the reason is that all bolter decks use some other source of damage to soften up your opponent, to win earlier and to be able to OTK with the quanta cap.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 09:56:33 pm by Shantu »

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513269#msg513269
« Reply #572 on: June 20, 2012, 10:35:05 pm »
Reflective Shield & Emerald Shield
Back when I joined the forum there was a deck type that only used Bolt cards as a win condition. I believe this deck type disappeared due to the addition of Reflective Shield. If this counter were nerfed as part of a berf to both cards, I think this deck type would return. (Generally the more deck types exist the better the metagame is.

I have seen you say this in multiple places, but this is - in my opinion - false. It is usually easy to circumvent reflective shield, since you can have your own: you need only a single nova to power it. If reflective shields are unavailable to you, you will more often than not still attempt to bolt your opponent (speaking of deck choice) because of the rarity of reflective shields in pvp. Even with a reflective shield in play, Fahrenheit can still win the game for you.
The only real thing ruining (read as: hindering in the case of fire bolt) bolter decks is the quanta cap. It makes 2 out of 3 bolts nigh useless for one-turn-kill purposes. You need to have caused a serious amount of damage already to be able to OTK with them. Which is not as easy for Darkness and Water as for Fire.

If "a deck type that only used Bolt cards as a win condition" means truly bolts only (so no other sources of damage, like a Fahrenheit, which is a pretty natural addition to such a deck), I agree such decks have disappeared and what I wrote earlier can be ignored. But the reason is that all bolter decks use some other source of damage to soften up your opponent, to win earlier and to be able to OTK with the quanta cap.
As your second paragraph correctly assumed, I was not talking about Fire Stall.

The addition of Reflection required the bolt only OTK to be a +2 card combo. Any combo player will tell you that adding even +1 card to a combo drastically reduces its speed and consistency. Obviously the quanta cap (added much later) is an additional obstacle to the bolt only decks. The quanta cap was added to reduce the presence of FireStall. I believe there are better solutions that could have been done instead. (Additional counterdefense/evasion cards like Psion)
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Offline Jyiber

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513276#msg513276
« Reply #573 on: June 20, 2012, 10:47:20 pm »
Now that I've read that, what about a card to increase the quanta cap.

I'm thinking a  :rainbow permanent that raises the cap by a finite amount or,
removes the cap altogether.

Or it could be tied to one element and force a duo for bolt decks.

Creative juices not flowing for theme idea...
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513319#msg513319
« Reply #574 on: June 21, 2012, 01:04:06 am »
Now that I've read that, what about a card to increase the quanta cap.

I'm thinking a  :rainbow permanent that raises the cap by a finite amount or,
removes the cap altogether.

Or it could be tied to one element and force a duo for bolt decks.

Creative juices not flowing for theme idea...
Other is the way to go.
I would recommend having 2 effects: One to increase the quanta cap, the other to exploit the increase.
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg513322#msg513322
« Reply #575 on: June 21, 2012, 01:11:59 am »
Now that I've read that, what about a card to increase the quanta cap.

I'm thinking a  :rainbow permanent that raises the cap by a finite amount or,
removes the cap altogether.

Or it could be tied to one element and force a duo for bolt decks.

Creative juices not flowing for theme idea...
Other is the way to go.
I would recommend having 2 effects: One to increase the quanta cap, the other to exploit the increase.
Bolts and Faren would already exploit the increase.
My 3 game-modification principles:
1. If it ain't broke, don't wreck it.
2. Simple fixes for simple problems.
3. Remember to fill in the holes.

 

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