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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523214#msg523214
« Reply #756 on: July 19, 2012, 03:24:16 am »
How much do you consider protecting a target row (essentially, 1/3 of a cloak) to be worth?
Depends on the Row. If the player gets to choose then it would be almost the same as the current cloak without protecting either the creatures (middle row) or the permanents. Probably 2-3  :darkness + 1 card.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523219#msg523219
« Reply #757 on: July 19, 2012, 04:16:51 am »
How much is card cost worth? Like, what's the equivalent of 1 card in terms of quanta? HP? Other benefit?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523226#msg523226
« Reply #758 on: July 19, 2012, 04:58:02 am »
How much is card cost worth? Like, what's the equivalent of 1 card in terms of quanta? HP? Other benefit?
1 card cost ~= 2-3 quanta cost
1 quanta cost might be ~= 5hp cost
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523234#msg523234
« Reply #759 on: July 19, 2012, 06:24:52 am »
Would a permanent that lets you discard costs to increase your hp or gain quanta (like half of the discarded card) be good?

Do some shards fit too much of a niche instead of being able to be splashable like they were meant to?

Would something like this be a good idea? As a spell? If the difference was changed to +/- 4?

Would a permanent that stopped all spells for both people for 3 turns be a good idea? What would be the cost?

Besides the shards, are there any cards that you feel to be OP?

Did you ever try this logic game? It's quite fun.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 07:41:49 pm by furballdn »

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523357#msg523357
« Reply #760 on: July 19, 2012, 08:12:38 pm »
1) Would a permanent that lets you discard costs to increase your hp or gain quanta (like half of the discarded card) be good?

2) Do some shards fit too much of a niche instead of being able to be splashable like they were meant to?

3) Would something like this be a good idea? As a spell? If the difference was changed to +/- 4?

4) Would a permanent that stopped all spells for both people for 3 turns be a good idea? What would be the cost?

5) Besides the shards, are there any cards that you feel to be OP?

6) Did you ever try this logic game? It's quite fun.
1)
The cost of the discarded card is not paid. It should not impact the benefit gained. Otherwise yes.

2)
Yes. Shard of Wisdom cannot be used without   :aether or  :light. Shard of Focus is too powerful for a splashable card (Hence cannot be simultaneously balanced for rainbows and mono decks without a major change). Shard of Sacrifice has a disloyalty penalty rather than a loyalty bonus.

3)
It can be used both as Attack Reduction and Rage. However Attack Reduction can be accomplished by CC (prevent attacking or remove the creature) and Rage is already a spell.
So no. I do not think it is a good idea in addition to cards already in the game.

4)
A rush deck would love that card since it prevents the opponent from equalizing. 3 of those would be 9 turns of status quo. (with 3 turns of playing between the double sided Silence) I would reduce it to 2 turns and a cost of 4 quanta.

5)
Yes. The degree of imbalance differs from card to card. I find cards that have imbalance less than 1 quanta in magnitude to be balanced. I consider cards with imbalance of more than 1 quanta in magnitude to be overpowered. This ranges from cards that are slightly to cheap (Fog, Graboid, Reverse Time) to metagame injury (Shard of Focus). However I have watched the card pool get fine tuned. Most of the op cards are now in the slightly too cheap bucket.

6)
Yes. It is quite fun.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523365#msg523365
« Reply #761 on: July 19, 2012, 08:32:20 pm »
2 turns and 4 quanta? Wouldn't that make it slightly inferior to cloak?

Null Field
*2 turns
*4 quanta
*Can't be targetted by spells
*Can be destroyed through destroy skill

Cloak
*3 turns
*hides field
*4 quanta
*Can be destroyed/stolen
*Disappears with AoE

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523369#msg523369
« Reply #762 on: July 19, 2012, 09:07:34 pm »
2 turns and 4 quanta? Wouldn't that make it slightly inferior to cloak?

Null Field
*2 turns
*4 quanta
*Can't be targetted by spells
*Can be destroyed through destroy skill

Cloak
*3 turns
*hides field
*4 quanta
*Can be destroyed/stolen
*Disappears with AoE

Null Field
*2 turns
*4 quanta
*Losing player cannot play anything including offense to equalize.
*Can be destroyed through destroy skill

Cloak
*3 turns
*hides field
*4 quanta
*Can be destroyed/stolen
*Disappears with AoE

Cloak maintains your strength. Null maintains your strength and their weakness.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523370#msg523370
« Reply #763 on: July 19, 2012, 09:11:00 pm »
They can still play creatures and permanents. Null Field only stops spells from being played. If there are two rush decks facing off against each other, the one packing null field would be slightly slower.

Offline Zaealix

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523373#msg523373
« Reply #764 on: July 19, 2012, 09:14:41 pm »
mmm....Ya no, cloak's not really a thing that's used enough for people to care, but AOE Spells can negate it. That said, people don't seem to realize it's an option...Or don't need to care.
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523376#msg523376
« Reply #765 on: July 19, 2012, 09:26:27 pm »
They can still play creatures and permanents. Null Field only stops spells from being played. If there are two rush decks facing off against each other, the one packing null field would be slightly slower.
Doh. I was thinking about MtG for a moment where all cards are spells.

If it only stops spells then it has a similar utility to cloak. It prevents fractal, black hole, shard of sacrifice ... but does not stop abilities. 3 turns 4 quanta would be fine.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523771#msg523771
« Reply #766 on: July 20, 2012, 11:21:17 pm »
You said 2 turn silence would cost 4 quanta. I disagree. Wouldn't it increase in a way that's greater than linear? 2 turn silence form one card should be at least 5 or 6 quanta.

Which element best embodies the qualities of "salvaging"?

If you pay 1 quanta + discard 1 card per turn, what should the gain be? 10hp per turn?

Why do you disagree with discarding a dragon and reaping X benefit while discarding a photon reaps X/10 or a smaller amount of benefit?

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg523787#msg523787
« Reply #767 on: July 20, 2012, 11:45:41 pm »
You said 2 turn silence would cost 4 quanta. I disagree. Wouldn't it increase in a way that's greater than linear? 2 turn silence form one card should be at least 5 or 6 quanta.
2 turn double sided silence that started counting on your opponent's turn would be a minimum of 4 quanta. (1 more than the mark produces in that time)
Your Turn 1 cast
Their Turn 1 silence
Your Turn 2 silence
Their Turn 2 silence
Your Turn 3 silence
Their Turn 3 vocal
Your Turn 4 cast
Their Turn 4 silence

Which element best embodies the qualities of "salvaging"?

If you pay 1 quanta + discard 1 card per turn, what should the gain be? 10hp per turn?

Why do you disagree with discarding a dragon and reaping X benefit while discarding a photon reaps X/10 or a smaller amount of benefit?
No element has a salvaging theme yet. I would go for a mental element since the hand is affected by nightmares and obsession.

1 :underworld + 1 card per turn for 10hp per turn is a good starting estimate.

I think that players should only reap benefits for costs they pay. They have not paid a higher cost to discard a dragon than to discard a photon. In both cases they paid 1 draw.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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