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happydude333

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My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355305#msg355305
« on: June 23, 2011, 11:44:43 am »
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Deck import code : [Select]
4t4 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52n 52n 52n 52p 52p 542 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c3 5c5 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c6 5c9 5c9 5c9 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5ig 5ig 5ig 5l9 5l9 5l9 8pn


The main plan of action is to use Mitosis on Forest Spirits to get loads of reasonably strong creatures that I control the power of. Add in Empathic bond for healing and it's all set.
The use of Boneyard with Thorn Carapace I find a brilliant combo escepically with multiple Empathic Bonds. If the worst comes to the worst I can always but down a lot of empathic bonds and mitosis photons to try and beat my opponent by having more cards.

Nymphs Tear's are there to get some addrenaline going on my many low power creatures, which is always fun.

Plauge and Icebolt for when something has to die faster than Thorn Carapace will kill it (or it has momentum) and Purify is for poison heavy lists or just to give me a bit more regen :)

I'm currently beating AI3 most of the time (except the chaos/darkness deck and the one that rushes you with blessed dune scorpions  >:D) and would like advice on beating them more reliably and moving up to T50 decks.

What do you all think? Any comments or suggestions are welcome :)

Thanks in advance.
HD

EDIT: I can't get my mark to show up for some reason, I use a life mark.

Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355362#msg355362
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2011, 03:17:28 pm »
EDIT: I can't get my mark to show up for some reason, I use a life mark.
You need a lowercase m in "mark="

At first glance (i haven't had the chance to give this a test drive) the deck appears to need a bit more life quanta production.  I would consider taking out the photons for additional life pillars.  I also might trade 2 heals for additional empathic bonds.  Looks like a pretty solid deck overall with a capacity to outrush stalls with forest spirits or outstall rushes with lots of healing (this may depend on a good draw which is often an obstacle for large decks).

Repeatable PC (butterfly effect/pulverizer) could pose a problem.

Interesting deck!  Good luck happydude333 :)

happydude333

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355873#msg355873
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 08:28:21 am »
Thanks, I've got that working now :)

You're right about needing a bit more life production, I've changed that, but I disagree on removing the photons, I simply don't have enough creatures and am sitting around with plenty of quanta but a hand ful of thorn carapace, emphatic bonds, mitosis, etc.

I've re-jiggled it a little bit and think it performs about the same, maybe a little better. I was wondering what you thought about trying to run these 3 elements in one deck? I've considered several things, either losing water for air, getting rid of the Forest Sprites for Firefly Queens and maybe some copies of Sanctuary for more regen goodness,  Shockwaves for more effective CC and bless for keepign stuff alive; Swapping out water for darkness to get nightfall for buffed skeletons and to give me access to Steal for some acutal PC(!); or dropping water completely and going down the route of forest scorpions and lots of poison.

All of them are pretty big changes and I quite enjoy what I'm doing at the moment to be honest.

Offline tyranim

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355876#msg355876
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 08:45:11 am »
um... sixty card deck with no draw engines at all... im going to test this since i have never used one. but for a good reason im sure

ok, its terrible. im sorry, but it is. your only source of good damage is through a 2 element combo and they consist of 9 cards out of 60. the healing isnt all that great. i got rushed by some maxwells demons... i mean really?
and i dont even know why there are photons in there. if it were me, i would give up on this project... but i lose focus fast, so that may just be me
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

happydude333

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355882#msg355882
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 10:16:31 am »
um... sixty card deck with no draw engines at all... im going to test this since i have never used one. but for a good reason im sure

ok, its terrible. im sorry, but it is. your only source of good damage is through a 2 element combo and they consist of 9 cards out of 60. the healing isnt all that great. i got rushed by some maxwells demons... i mean really?
and i dont even know why there are photons in there. if it were me, i would give up on this project... but i lose focus fast, so that may just be me
Thanks for the feedback, I'm pretty new to this so if it's an unsalavagably terribad idea then that's fine, I can try again :)
Out of curiosity what do you think my only good source of damage is? Also the Photons are for something very cheap to Mitosis as there are too many cards to reliably get Life Sprits.

Would a good idea be cutting ~1/3 of everything, but not changing the numer of life spirits and loosing all the photons instead? That would bring be down to about 40 cards?

I guess another option would be to loose the death side completely, get rid of the Thorn Carapace for some Emerald Shields and get more Ice bolts to make up for the loss of CC?

Offline Higurashi

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355887#msg355887
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 10:39:57 am »
Yep, for optimal farm decks, you stick to monos, duos or rainbows (or trios if they involve Animate Weapon). Optimal farm decks are also at 30 cards. Since your main damage source is Forest Spirits, here's an example of a fast Spirit deck: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,27392.0.html
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

happydude333

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355893#msg355893
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 11:05:20 am »
Thank you, I guess I'll start saving up for all those funky cards in that rainbow deeck :P

Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg355962#msg355962
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 02:55:34 pm »
I've considered several things, either losing water for air, getting rid of the Forest Sprites for Firefly Queens and maybe some copies of Sanctuary for more regen goodness,  Shockwaves for more effective CC and bless for keepign stuff alive;
This is possible.  Bless doesn't sound too useful.
Swapping out water for darkness to get nightfall for buffed skeletons and to give me access to Steal for some acutal PC(!)
I'm more skeptical of this.
dropping water completely and going down the route of forest scorpions and lots of poison
And this.

Allow me to elaborate.

Decks can range from 30 to 60 cards. A 30 card deck will last 24 turns (you start with a hand of seven) or 23 if you play second (the first player does not draw on the first turn), when you draw one card per turn.  Most games you play in Elements do not last this long and most exceptions fall into the ai5 and ai6(false god)  categories.  A typical game is probably 10-15 turns (i have no statsitics on this) and a fast game can be over in 6 turns or even faster.

A smaller deck has two advantages.  It allows you to take only the better cards, increasing the average value of a card you draw.  And it provides you with more consistent draws.

A larger deck would typically be played either to add the option of decking out your opponent, or when you have draw power (usually in the form of hourglasses although golden nymphs would apply as well and possibly sundials to a lesser extent; precognitions are most often used in 30 card decks to make them "appear" even smaller).  A slightly larger deck also might be used to hone in on the proper ratio of cards in your deck.

You're trying to make a deck for AI3 and T50.  As unit748596 and Higurashi mentioned, large decks are not the standard.  There are at least two reasons for this.  The composition of the decks in AI3 and T50 make blitzing a sensible strategy.  The decks in AI3 are generally large cumbersome and slow.  The decks in T50 are oftentimes farms, in which case a win is not in doubt and you may as well win as quickly as possible.  The second reason is speed.  More games means more wins.  A slower deck is unlikely to achieve more than a slightly better win percentage (not enough to compensate for the sluggishness).

I still see value in playing a large deck in AI3 for a couple of reasons.  It gives you experience with more cards and card combinations.  In a small blitz deck you may have as few as two different card types (excepting pillars).  With a larger deck you familiarize yourself with a wider range of cards and how they interact.  This is of limited utility as time goes on and you become accustomed to each card.  Additonally, it may help you develop ideas for pvp decks.  Pvp decks are often bigger than AI3/T50 farming decks.  Small blitz decks will likely always be a staple in the pvp metagame (if they aren't then something is out of balance), but stalls will have their say as well.  A 60 card deck without draw power is uncommon even in pvp, but among stalls there is a tendency towards getting bigger to deal with other stalls as stalls become more prevalent, so i wouldn't discount the notion altogether.

Hopefully this sheds some light on my suggestions above.  If you are running a large deck, defense is king, so buffing skeletons or dealing poison damage shouldn't be a priority (these strategies would be more effective in a smaller deck).  But keeping your side full of fireflies so that you can heal 100 damage per turn could be effective against some decks. (You might want to mix in a jade or reflective shield so you don't get bolted to death though).  Bless is more often used to boost creatures' attack values (particularly creatures that copy themselves or dive).  Guardian angel is a more likely source for healing, although in this deck i don't see creature-healing as a high priority.

If you have your heart set on playing a large deck, i could recommend trying earth/light or earth/light/water. The stoneskin/miracle (once you have some miracle cards) synergy is useful.

Finally keep in mind that, as with most anything, learning is gradual.  Don't be afraid to experiment with different ideas.  Even if it slows you down at first you will learn from your mistakes (if you made any) and have a better understanding of the game in the long run.

Cheers and best wishes for continuing good fortune
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Offline tyranim

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg356148#msg356148
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 07:39:50 pm »
this was what i was thinking:
-all death cards
-shields
-photons
-all bonds
-all water cards
-6 life pillars
-staff
-1 heal
-1 mitosis
+8 life pends
+4 blue crawlers
+3 freezes
+1 forest spirit
change mark to water

this is my version of your deck:
Code: [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c9 5c9 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5i6 5i6 5i6 5i6 5i7 5i7 5i7
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

happydude333

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Re: My Current Deck, Life with Death and Water help vs AI3 and T50 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27880.msg357256#msg357256
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 10:24:37 am »
Thank you very much for all the advice everyone, reading your message chromatophore was especially helpful :) It looks like I need to go back to the drawing board a little bit rather than just winging it with things that have worked reasonably well :P

Thanks for the exmaple deck as well Unit 748596, that looks like it might be a good one for me to try out sooner than the other suggestion posted :)

 

blarg: happydude333