Time for some Rainbow Nymphomania...

[MaxMilen]

Here's the deck...

Code: [Select]

5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rq 6rq 6ts 6ts 6u0 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 719 719 77f 77i 77i 7aj 7h8 7h8 7ms 7n2 7n3 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q8 7t4 7t9 7t9 808 808 80d 80d 80d 80h 80h 80h
...and here are my answers to some questions you may be asking, and maybe some you wouldn't.

What is this?
This is the current version of what's been my primary deck for quite a while now.

What's with the name?
Just a lame joke.

How does it work?
It's based on the classic Time-mark rainbow deck, but of course, incorporates Nymphs (generated through Water Nymph + Shard of Readiness) as a primary win condition.

What do you use it for?
Like many Time-mark rainbows, this is designed as an anti-FG deck, though I also use it on Top50 and AI5.

What's the win-rate against False Gods?
I haven't really done enough testing of this version to be sure, but it seems to be somewhere between 20 and 30 percent, with a little over half of its wins being Elemental Masters.

Why use both Quantum and colored Towers?
The Quantum Towers fuel my quanta needs, while the colored Towers, in addition to helping a bit with the quanta that are used more heavily, are what I make the Nymphs out of.

Don't those colored Towers sometimes mess up your quanta generation?
Admittedly, yes. But those games are a minority, and being able to guarantee specific Nymphs more than makes up for that.

Do you make Nymphs out of the Quantum Towers too?
Only if absolutely necessary, which is rarely the case.

Why use those specific Towers (and by extension, Nymphs)?
Because these are the ones I've found to be the most effective. Aether Tower ->    Nymph lets me make all my creatures immortal, Amethyst Tower ->    Nymph gives me cheap Antimatter on a stick, Time Tower ->    Nymph (though the Towers are more for the quanta generation in this case) gives me extra draw and a decent attacker, Obsidian Tower ->    Nymph combos with the    Nymph as a source of damage and creature control, and Wind Tower ->    Nymph gives me a good damage source and yet another source of creature control.

What are the weaknesses?
If this deck is up against any sort of rush, and doesn't manage to get its stall working properly in time, it usually loses quickly. It's also very weak to permanent control (i.e. Pulvy, Butterfly Effect, or high numbers of Explosion and/or Steal), and Momentum causes trouble due to the dependance on shields. Also, quantum denial can be a problem.

Why use unupped Sundials?
Personal preference. I find they work better unupped.

Why not include Otyugh, Bone Wall, or Boneyard/Graveyard?
Two reasons. Lack of room, and they're not really needed. Otyugh's brand of creature control really isn't needed, and without it, I don't really kill enough creatures to make Bone Wall or Graveyard reliable enough.

Why not include Miracle?
Two reasons. One, I haven't found a slot for it. Two, because of how expensive it is, it can be a bit iffy. Mostly the first one, though.

Why use Plague instead of Fire Storm?
Personal preference. Fire Storm kills small creatures quicker, but I can usually afford to wait, and Plague will eventually kill stuff that Fire Storm wouldn't. Also, when I'm up against an AI with Devour (Osiris, Top50 decks using Otyugh, and so on), it'll often devour poisoned creatures a lot earlier than necessary.

What's with the Spine Carapace?
Creature control, and it even works against Quinted creatures. Sure, it takes more quanta than Fire Buckler, but once I've got it going, it'll often kill creatures about as quickly as Fire Buckler would have, sometimes quicker, and that damage reduction has saved me more than once. (Yeah, downside is that it won't affect stuff with 1 attack, but that's not a big deal, and at least I won't be taking those hits.)

How fast is it?
It isn't. Between being built like a Time-mark rainbow and how Nymphs work, it's far more control-based than speed/aggro-based.

Isn't 60 cards a lot?
Yep, but it works. In fact, it's quite common for me to draw all the way through my deck, then use Eternity on Fireflies for a number of turns.

Isn't Dissipation Field risky?
Yes, but as long as I'm not forced into playing it too early, it's well worth it. Late in the game, when I've got far more quanta than I need, it's insanely effective.

How do you deal with creature control?
Ah, that's the beauty of it. Other than Fire Buckler and Thorn/Spine Carapace, creature control is mostly useless against this deck, since I won't play/generate a creature unless I can make it immortal that turn, with the occasional exception of spawning a Firefly. Of course, those two shields can be problematic. Fire Buckler/Spine Carapace + Protect Artifact = major trouble for me.

What if your Eternity gets stolen or destroyed, or is the last card in the deck?
Then I'm in trouble, and I have to hope I can win before I draw out my deck. Of course, I do try to prevent this by making sure I don't play Eternity unless I'm going to Protect it that turn, or Animate it and Quint it. As for it being the last card, well... it sucks, but at least it's very rare for me to lose because Eternity was my last card.

Aren't you a little light on permanent control?
Yes, but it seems to be enough. Thank you, Pulvy!

Would this deck work with Nymph's Tears instead of the Water Nymphs?
I have no idea. I haven't tried to make a variant with Nymph's Tears, since I didn't even build this deck until I had the Water Nymphs. My initial guess, though, is that it wouldn't be as effective, since you'd need to include Sapphire Towers, and getting your first Water Nymph going would be a four-card combo (Sapphire Tower + Nymph's Tears + Shard of Readiness + Quintessence/Elite Anubis) instead of a 3-card (replace Sapphire Tower + Nymph's Tears with Water Nymph).


Well, that should mostly cover it. Of course, I welcome constructive feedback, relevant questions/comments, and the like.

[kev]

I guess there's not really much to add.  You seem to know the recommendations people would make to shorten game time, improve winrate, and enhance reliability, but you're happy as is.  I guess it must be fun.

So just a couple comments you didn't hit on in your overview:
Dispose of the animate weapon.
In a deck with no graveyards and one FFQ in 60 cards, another SoG is definitely better than a Bond.
Doesn't seem like enough shields.

Edit: And add SOME fire.  It's the best element, after all.  It'll help balance and speed up your deck, and you're getting fire quanta from your fireflies.

[MaxMilen]

I guess there's not really much to add.  You seem to know the recommendations people would make to shorten game time, improve winrate, and enhance reliability, but you're happy as is.  I guess it must be fun.

That, it is.

So just a couple comments you didn't hit on in your overview:
Dispose of the animate weapon.

Certainly an option. Of course, the reason it's there is so that I can actually have both Pulvy and Eternity active at the same time. It works more often than you might think.

In a deck with no graveyards and one FFQ in 60 cards, another SoG is definitely better than a Bond.

Definitely worth a try. Later in the game, I'll usually have enough creatures that I really will be gaining more than SoG would, but earlier on, Bond's more likely to be a dead draw than it would be in most Time-mark Rainbows.

Doesn't seem like enough shields.

I certainly wouldn't mind having another Phase Shield or two. If I do drop the Animate Weapon, Phase Shield is the most likely replacement card.

Edit: And add SOME fire.  It's the best element, after all.  It'll help balance and speed up your deck, and you're getting fire quanta from your fireflies.

Not a bad idea, if I can find the room and pick the right card(s).


Thanks for the suggestions!

[MaxMilen]

Just to hopefully give people some ideas, here are some of the things I'm considering doing:

• Switching the Feral Bond for a third Shard of Gratitude. While Feral Bond will eventually be healing me for more than Shard will, Shard's lower casting cost, as well as it working when I don't have creatures, have me leaning pretty heavily toward the change.
• Dropping one of the Time Towers. The main reason I had two of them was because this deck uses so much    quanta, but one Time Tower may still be enough. Besides, I really have no use for more than one Golden Nymph in a game.
• Dropping the Obsidian Tower. Yes,    Nymph plus    Nymph = repeatable negative vampires, but the    Nymph is a lot less useful when it can't combo with the    Nymph.
• Adding 1-2 more Shields. As kevkev60614 noted, I really don't have that many, and given this deck's dependence on stall, I could use them.
• Adding some    cards. As is, my only use for    quanta is to ignite Unstable Gas and to fuel Dissipation Field. Considering that I am running Elite Queen, it might be wise to have something else to do with those quanta. Perhaps I'll add a Burning Tower for the    Nymph; alternatively, I might work in 1-2 Fire Storms, Explosions, or Fire Lances.
• Alternatively to the above point, switching Elite Queen to the unupped Firefly Queen, adding a second one, and adding in a single of Hope (and possibly a single of Miracle). It'd be a bit of a risk since it'd be adding yet another combo, and one that's pretty disconnected from the rest of the deck at that, but if it does work, well...
• Adding in one or both of my other Nymphs. In addition to the two Water Nymphs that are already in here, I have 1 each of Gravity Nymph and Life Nymph. True, they're expensive to play, but they could be useful.

Well, in any case, I welcome further feedback/suggestions. The deck's already been working well for me, but it's probably possible to make it even better.

[sSethia]

It doesn't look like you have enough stall cards. If your setup takes a long time to get out, stalling is very necessary.

Let's see:
6 Sundials
2 Shards of Gratitude
2 Phase Shields

Also, I would add more Hourglasses, as they help immensely. I think you need the extra drawing power.

[MaxMilen]

It doesn't look like you have enough stall cards. If your setup takes a long time to get out, stalling is very necessary.

Let's see:
6 Sundials
2 Shards of Gratitude
2 Phase Shields

Also, I would add more Hourglasses, as they help immensely. I think you need the extra drawing power.

Not a bad idea; I'm working on finding slots for more stall and maybe another Hourglass. It's figuring out what to drop that's the hard part.

[crudmonkey]

dropping a steal might be helpful, there usefull but never lifesaving

[MaxMilen]

dropping a steal might be helpful, there usefull but never lifesaving

Maybe, but you'd be surprised how many wins I can credit to a Steal, and how many times I can ascribe a loss, at least in part, to one or more well-placed Steals.

[Glitch]

The plagues are pretty pointless.  And honestly, I might drop the super novas in favor of more pillars.

[MaxMilen]

The plagues are pretty pointless.  And honestly, I might drop the super novas in favor of more pillars.

Interesting. I've found the Plagues quite useful. Could they be dropped? Probably. Would the deck be as good without them, or would those slots be better served with something else? I honestly don't know.

As far as dropping the Supernovas... maybe, though they've proven quite helpful.

In any case, I've dropped the Feral Bond and one of the Time Towers for a third Shard of Gratitude and a third Phase Shield. So far, these changes seem to have improved the deck. I'll update the deck code in the top post accordingly.

[MaxMilen]

Any more suggestions?

Now that Wings is out, I'm considering switching out one of the Phase Shields for Wings. Good idea? Bad idea? On the one hand, Wings is cheaper than Phase Shield and lasts longer; on the other hand, certain creatures that would not get through Phase Shield will get through Wings, and some of those creatures can hit pretty hard.

Another idea I've been considering would be to switch from Elite Queen to Firefly Queen, and work in a second Firefly Queen and a Hope. Not sure how I'd fit in the second Queen and the Hope, but...

[MaxMilen]

I decided to try dropping the Plagues, as Gl1tch suggested, for a fourth Hourglass and a fourth Phase Shield. So far, it looks like he was right; the Plagues really weren't that important, and it does seem like having the additional Hourglass and Phase Shield have helped. I will update the deck in the top post with these changes.

Further constructive feedback is, of course, always welcome. I will note a few things, which should help get the ball rolling.

• First and foremost -- Please, if you plan to suggest that I add a particular card, help me find something to take out for it. That's been the hardest part of tweaking this deck.
• That third Shard of Gratitude really does seem to be working better than the Feral Bond it replaced did. Yes, Feral Bond would tend to give me more health later in the game, but its higher cost, coupled with it being less effective earlier on, were not enough to make it worthwhile.
• I still have yet to work in anything that would make significant use of the    quanta generated by my Fireflies. Other than setting off Unstable Gas and fueling Dissipation Field, those    quanta really aren't doing much. I'm trying to figure out what I could do to make better use of those quanta. I've considered a Burning Tower, to then be made into the    Nymph, but what little testing I've done with that idea has not gone well.
• Alternatively to the above, I have considered replacing the Firefly Queen with a Pharaoh, but I'm iffy on this at best. The deck is already so hungry for    quanta that adding in another thing that would make heavy use of those quanta seems too risky.
• While the draw generated by the    Nymph is only sometimes helpful, the ability to guarantee    quanta generation beyond my mark has been far more helpful. No surprise, considering just how hungry this deck is for    quanta.  If anything, I kinda wish I could find a slot for a second Time Tower.
• In addition to the two Water Nymphs I'm using, I have a Life Nymph and a Gravity Nymph, each of which I have considered using, and have done some experimenting with. However, either I haven't been incorporating them effectively, or they're just not that good for this deck, since I've yet to really see them shine. Life Nymph only helps if it shows up at just the right time (so that I can then Adrenaline my creatures before immortalizing them), and Gravity Nymph tends not to be able to hit the board early enough to be helpful.
• I've mentioned before that I was considering replacing the Elite Queen with the unupped version, and working in a second FFQ and a Hope. I experimented with that, and... not a good idea. That's the kind of idea that'd only work in a deck more dedicated to it.
• I'd like to be able to work in a third Steal, if there were a good slot. Alternatively, I could see working in Butterly Effect, though given the way this deck is now, I'd probably also have to work in a Graveyard, otherwise I'd not really be able to use it effectively.
• Another thing I've been considering working in would be another Elite Anubis. Again, though, I'm iffy; as with Pharaoh, it'd be yet another demand for    quanta, which are already this deck's most used element, by quite a bit.
• I commented earlier that I was considering dropping the Obsidian Tower, abandoning its Nymph. I still might, though if I do, I am definitely replacing it with Ulitharid. The most useful aspect of the    Nymph has been its ability to get rid of dangerous opposing creature effects.