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Offline kirbylover314Topic starter

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Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151312#msg1151312
« on: August 16, 2014, 05:12:38 am »
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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 4vh 4vh 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55s 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5ii 5ii 5ii 625 625 625 5li 5ll 5ll 8po


How should I improve on this? ANY FEEDBACK WILL BE HELPFUL.

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151314#msg1151314
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 05:39:12 am »
One thing I can suggest is to NOT go down to 30 cards (because there's nearly a 100% chance that anyone else will suggest that first). Try to make it work as it is.

For Crusaders,  I would either remove them or remove something else for more weapons - you have enough damage sources already.
Another tip is to add some Creature Control (CC)
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Offline kirbylover314Topic starter

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151316#msg1151316
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 06:03:08 am »
One thing I can suggest is to NOT go down to 30 cards (because there's nearly a 100% chance that anyone else will suggest that first). Try to make it work as it is.

For Crusaders,  I would either remove them or remove something else for more weapons - you have enough damage sources already.
Another tip is to add some Creature Control (CC)


I removed the Crusaders and Phoenixes and added 3 Thunderstorms and 4 more quantum pillars. I realized my quantum production is too low and a cost of 7 fire quantum does not help.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 06:15:43 am by kirbylover314 »

Offline Espithel

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151361#msg1151361
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 12:52:00 pm »
Reduce the deck to 30- Damn it Ruta. >:|
Seriously though, you need a good reason to go up to higher than 30.
Good reasons include but are not limited to:
You have card draw.
You're playing a stall.

You have neither.
Ask yourself why the deck isn't at 30.

But alas, ignoring common sense:
Bulky decks NEED card draw to be able to function well.
Put in some golden hourglasses.
Novas are designed for speedy decks, this deck is pretty slow. Replace them with more quantum pillars.

You deck uses only 4 quanta, when there's 12 quanta types.
Spread out your quanta- Add some more cards of different elements. Some growth cards. Some mid-range hitters. Removal of different kinds and elements. As for a victory condition... Momentum + Steam + Quint'll do.

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151365#msg1151365
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 01:08:56 pm »
Reduce the deck to 30- Damn it Ruta. >:|
Seriously though, you need a good reason to go up to higher than 30.
Good reasons include but are not limited to:
You have card draw.
You're playing a stall.

You have neither.
Ask yourself why the deck isn't at 30.

But alas, ignoring common sense:
Bulky decks NEED card draw to be able to function well.
Put in some golden hourglasses.
Novas are designed for speedy decks, this deck is pretty slow. Replace them with more quantum pillars.

You deck uses only 4 quanta, when there's 12 quanta types.
Spread out your quanta- Add some more cards of different elements. Some growth cards. Some mid-range hitters. Removal of different kinds and elements. As for a victory condition... Momentum + Steam + Quint'll do.
You are wrong at one point. Only combo decks need extra drawpower or small size. If your deck doesn't rely on card order or getting a card early, deck size and drawing speed really doesn't matter.
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151375#msg1151375
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 01:35:41 pm »
Decks that have more than 30 cards are less consistent than decks that don't.
Cards that have more than 30 cards are more likely to have worse hands than decks with 30.
A deck where a smaller deck wouldn't make it better is either a deck that can tolerate bulk (card draw, stall), or a deck with poor focus. Unfocused decks are worse than focused decks.

Just four simple observations I've seen.

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151402#msg1151402
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 03:01:31 pm »
Decks that have more than 30 cards are less consistent than decks that don't. Wrong. if you have the right amount of quanta, you can play just as good as normally
Cards that have more than 30 cards are more likely to have worse hands than decks with 30. Again wrong. If all your cards are equally valuable, you'll be okay. See The Deck for example
A deck where a smaller deck wouldn't make it better is either a deck that can tolerate bulk (card draw, stall), or a deck with poor focus. Unfocused decks are worse than focused decks. argument incomplete

Just four simple observations I've seen.

Don't listen to Frozengaia on this one. He's a newbie here, anyway. :3 Ruta, however, is a veteran who's been here for a very long time and he definitely knows more, so it's better to listen to him. However, if you ever use a combo deck, you might want to consider trimming your deck to the shortest deck size.
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Offline CuCN

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151414#msg1151414
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 03:43:53 pm »
Large decks with the same proportion of quanta are in fact more likely to get hands with too much or too little quanta.

From Is 30 cards always the optimum deck size?

^
This example is flawed though. It's simple statistics, you will have way more really bad draws with the 60 card version.

I still agree though that 30 isn't always best.

Nope. You won't have more bad draws; the chance of drawing each card type is the same. However, there is indeed a reason the 60-card version can be proven slightly different than the 30-card counterpart, but it is not luck. It is speed. In a 30-card deck, you draw 1/30th of your deck per draw, while in a 60-card deck you draw 1/60th of your deck per draw. Because of that, you draw twice as fast in a 30-card deck, so you deckout twice as fast. Its a double-edged sword...

I'm pretty sure you will have more bad draws. The chance of drawing any card is only the same initially. As soon as you start drawing cards the probabilities stop being the same. For example, here's a table of your probability of drawing a pillar in each of those decks given that you haven't drawn one after X draws.

X30 Card60 Card
014/30=46.7%28/60=46.7%
114/29=48.3%28/59=47.5%
214/28=50%28/58=48.3%
314/27=51.9%28/57=49.1%
414/26=53.8%28/56=50%

30 cards isn't always the best choice for a deck, but claiming that it is not more consistent is wrong. (For more, read the linked thread.)

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151420#msg1151420
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 04:11:30 pm »
Ah, thank you CuCN. :) The differences are slight, but still existing then it seems.
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151437#msg1151437
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 05:51:49 pm »
(Also, for the sake of reference, by this post I've been playing elements for 10 months. Saying I'm still a newbie here, especially looking at my (rather surprising) BL statistics... I don't think it's fair to treat me like I'm "still a newb". I find that rather condescending and quite ignorant, too. It's like you're telling me I'm wasting my time playing this game, trying to get better at it.
Preemptive apology accepted.

Another point is that on Kongregate, you will see tons of decks posted. Whenever people ask for help, first thing anyone says is "Reduce the deck to 30 cards." What do you expect me to do?)

Well, there we go.
Thank you, mediator CuCN.

Back to this, shall we?
Kirbystar's chassis deck
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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 4vh 4vh 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55s 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5ii 5ii 5ii 625 625 625 5li 5ll 5ll 8po

First of all, I said this last time but oh well:
Spread out the elements. The more elements you use, the better. Quite a lot of elements have very similar cards to each other, such as mummy, cockatrice, wyrm,  grabboid, blue crawler, psion, gargoyle, etc.

Some card draw would also be lovely. Hourglass... Put 3-4 in. They'll accelerate your deck very well.
Novas aren't too much better than quantum pillars if your deck isn't really speedy, which this isn't. You could just completely remove all the novas and the deck would run a bit better.

I would also recommend some permanent control (or PC.) This is to prevent dims (Growl.) Or other annoying shields and things.
Deflagration is the go-to PC, but steal, pulverizer and momentum all work.
Also, might as well add in a purify. You never know.

Offline omegareaper7

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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151455#msg1151455
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 07:05:00 pm »
Focus the deck and slim it down.

You are super heavy on both light and fire. And you aren't making any use of 4 of the elements.
 
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Re: Deck help https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55449.msg1151471#msg1151471
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2014, 09:12:16 pm »
(Also, for the sake of reference, by this post I've been playing elements for 10 months. Saying I'm still a newbie here, especially looking at my (rather surprising) BL statistics... I don't think it's fair to treat me like I'm "still a newb". I find that rather condescending and quite ignorant, too. It's like you're telling me I'm wasting my time playing this game, trying to get better at it.
Preemptive apology accepted.
I saw your first post as an attempt to shoot Ruta down, so I shot down you. :D <-- just as well this was a joke, I do think you're still new, even though you're through the basics and now you're learning to reach your breakpoint. I do apologize though :-[
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