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Znork

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What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375960#msg375960
« on: August 05, 2011, 06:47:45 pm »
Here is my deck for farming Elders and Bronze Arena - It's not mine, It's a kevkev60614 deck. I should be using an Arsesenic instead of the Hammer.

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4t5 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 8pm


I am looking for more rare cards to build an FG Farming deck. If I was to upgrade 3 or 4 cards in this deck to make it even more reliable against Bronze decks, which ones should I upgrade?? And in which order?

Or would that be a complete waste of money?

I have though of different possibilities:

Upgrading Grabloids might be the most obious.

or

I could upgrade half of my Novas. That could allow me to use more quanta heavy creatures. Or would that increase my chances of a bad draw too much?

or

I could upgrade Phoenixes. They are really cheap in quanta but also only do 4 in damage. So maybe I should then add some more fire creatures (dragons or golems maybe). Or would that destroy the balance of the deck?


Thanks

Artois

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375974#msg375974
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 07:39:48 pm »
Im not sure that fully upped this deck would have much luck in FG farming...

... however, of those cards, I've never heard of anyone who regrets upping their novas, as they are versatile and can be used in many decks including FG farming decks.

Offline Dm

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375976#msg375976
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 07:43:39 pm »
Here is my deck for farming Elders and Bronze Arena - It's not mine, It's a kevkev60614 deck. I should be using an Arsesenic instead of the Hammer.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4t5 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 8pm


I am looking for more rare cards to build an FG Farming deck. If I was to upgrade 3 or 4 cards in this deck to make it even more reliable against Bronze decks, which ones should I upgrade?? And in which order?

Or would that be a complete waste of money?

I have though of different possibilities:

Upgrading Grabloids might be the most obious.

or

I could upgrade half of my Novas. That could allow me to use more quanta heavy creatures. Or would that increase my chances of a bad draw too much?

or

I could upgrade Phoenixes. They are really cheap in quanta but also only do 4 in damage. So maybe I should then add some more fire creatures (dragons or golems maybe). Or would that destroy the balance of the deck?


Thanks
I'd upgrade graboids. But if you're going to get upgrades for a FG farmer, I'd suggest upgrading the supernova's.. this deck fully upgraded couldn't farm FG's to save your life. So yeah. Upgrading the graboids would be smarter to kill bronze faster, but then again, you probably want to work on a FG. In that case, you should get the nova's upgraded. But beware-  they will ALSO cost 2 entropies, which means you'll need 1 nova and 1 immo, 2 immo's, or 2 nova's.

Znork

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375977#msg375977
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 07:48:48 pm »
Thanks!

Sorry, I was unclear - This is not going to be an FG Farming deck, but I was thinking of updating it anyway.

I guess your'e both right - I should update Novas because I can use them in CCYB for instance (never had an FG Farming deck).

Should I add more Novas so I have 3 Novas and 3 Supernovas? And should I add anything else now that I'm getting more quanta (hopefully)?

Offline Pineapple

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375984#msg375984
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 08:27:37 pm »
Don't don't don't don't EVER (Okay, maybe there are some exceptions.) put Snovas into Grabbix.

Until you get to that point where you accumulate so much wealth you can upgrade cards like nothing, you should focus on fully upping your False God grinder.
So don't upgrade this deck, if you're going to, upgrade graboids then immolations.

But for now, I recommend massing your money so that, after you get enough rares, you can start off with a semi-upped FG grinder. And remember that RoL/Hope requires 6 upgraded cards bare minimum, so definitely don't dump your money into Grabbix if you're planning on using RoL/Hope.

Znork

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg375996#msg375996
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 09:03:02 pm »
Don't don't don't don't EVER (Okay, maybe there are some exceptions.) put Snovas into Grabbix.

Until you get to that point where you accumulate so much wealth you can upgrade cards like nothing, you should focus on fully upping your False God grinder.
So don't upgrade this deck, if you're going to, upgrade graboids then immolations.

But for now, I recommend massing your money so that, after you get enough rares, you can start off with a semi-upped FG grinder. And remember that RoL/Hope requires 6 upgraded cards bare minimum, so definitely don't dump your money into Grabbix if you're planning on using RoL/Hope.
Haha I was just about to press upgrade when I thought: "maybe I should check the forum for new replies". So thanks - I will save my 4.500 for something else.

And thanks for letting me know the name of the deck, too.

Offline Dm

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376023#msg376023
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 09:51:10 pm »
Don't don't don't don't EVER (Okay, maybe there are some exceptions.) put Snovas into Grabbix.

Until you get to that point where you accumulate so much wealth you can upgrade cards like nothing, you should focus on fully upping your False God grinder.
So don't upgrade this deck, if you're going to, upgrade graboids then immolations.

But for now, I recommend massing your money so that, after you get enough rares, you can start off with a semi-upped FG grinder. And remember that RoL/Hope requires 6 upgraded cards bare minimum, so definitely don't dump your money into Grabbix if you're planning on using RoL/Hope.
Upgrading SNova's wouldn't be that bad in grabbix, but it would throw off a bit of the balance specially because that means you will need 2 novas, 2 immos, or 1 nova 1 immo (Plus the photons to power the immo's) to get the SNova out. That will make it so you get worst draws, but that also means that you can get out faster (And possibly immo a phoenix if you're on a tight spot, because SNova goes as 2 nova's.) The main problem would be with lycanthrope as it also uses entropy, but you can switch that for say, a forest spirit, or momentum even.

Yes, you won't upgrade all SNova's - that'd be wrong - so upgrading like only 2 would be alright. Not only that but SNova's are extremely useful (Speedbow, anyone?), both for, I dunno, AI3 grinding (if you want to.) and FG (Shak'ar or CCYB, for example.)

Side note : If he wanted to start FG grinding he could just go ahead and grab himself a Liquid Antimatter deck. Don't need upped cards for that. Or slowly upgrade CCYB as he goes.

Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376028#msg376028
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2011, 09:58:08 pm »
The only major benefits gained from upgrades here are on Graboid, Immolation, and Hammer.  Forest Spirit and Lycanthrope are often just used for additional immolations, due to their low cost; upgrading Lycanthrope will not help you use its skill any faster since if you have 2 :entropy, you also have 2 :darkness... Forest Spirit does become a little more stable, but it gets a cost hike as well.  Rays of Light are pointless since you do not use Light quanta in this deck, Phoenixes are much more potent unupped and are easily played with Immolation, and as has been said, Supernovas are much more difficult to play in a deck that has so little source of Entropy quanta.

So there you go; upgrade the Graboids first, then the Immolations, then the Hammer.  Leave the rest.

As for False Gods, if you bridge anything from this deck into some FG farmer deck, it should be the Photons - RoL/Hope can be run unupped aside from RoLs, so farm the electrum to get those six cards upped and you can quickly switch over and start turbo FG farming.

Znork

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376043#msg376043
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2011, 10:58:48 pm »
Thanks for all the advice, guys!

This leads me to few extra questions:

It seems I should probably now (or soon) choose between CCYB and Rol/Hope for my FG deck. I have no idea which is most fun to play.
  - For CCYB - should I start with Sanctuaries instead of SoGs? I have no SoG's. And what should I replace 1 Pulverizer with - I only have 1. I could play Owl's Eye or Eternity for CC perhaps?
  - For RoL/Hope - does it work unupped at all?

I could do the Liquid Antimatter deck. Is it more profitable to farm FGs with a low succes rate than it is to farm Elders or Bronze? Or is it just more fun?

On another note - I actually immo Phoenixes quite often to get another Phoenix on the board - not just in a tigt spot. As long as I have one :fire when I immo, I know I will have two active on the board next round (given there is no cc from my opponent that round). Of course, if I draw a Photon right after that, I will have wasted one  :fire that I might need later. Same system applies when I am one quantum short of playing several creatures in my hand - I can immo the Phoenix, play the other creatures and get the Phoenix going again next round.
   - But since I'm a newb that might be either common knowledge or just stupid.




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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376047#msg376047
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2011, 11:18:57 pm »
As for the original question, I would upgrade Immolation, then Graboid, then Hammer.  I have a deck a lot like that one, but the major difference is that I use Lava Destroyers instead of phoenixes; they get bigger and stronger, but phoenixes never die, so both are reasonable choices.

For the new question, I would play CCYB over RoL/Hope.  (Liquid Antimatter only works on a few FGs; it's worth using sometimes if the oracle tells you who is up next, but otherwise don't bother)  RoL/Hope is, in my opinion, an overrated deck, and even if people disagree with me and claim it is equal to CCYB, (it's not :p) the CCYB deck is far more interesting to play. 

Quote
- For CCYB - should I start with Sanctuaries instead of SoGs? I have no SoG's.
Quote

Sanctuary is a great card.  In my false god farmer, I use 6 SoGs AND 3 Sanctuaries, and I love them both :)  Sanctuary is vital against Dark Matter's deck, and makes Decay even more of a joke than he already is.  You might not want to have a full set of six because of the 4 (3 upgraded) light quanta you'll need to play it, but I'd strongly advise using at least a few of them.  If you have room in the deck and aren't having light quanta issues, go ahead and use six.  I'd use more in my FG farmer deck but I don't know what to cut for them, and it's already at 60 cards.

Quote
And what should I replace 1 Pulverizer with - I only have 1. I could play Owl's Eye or Eternity for CC perhaps?
Either one is an excellent choice.  If your deck is a lot smaller than 60 cards, you might need Eternity to avoid running out of cards, by using it on your own creature.  If you are smart with your hourglasses, though, it will be very rare that this is necessary.  I used Eternity in my FG farmer for a long time, though now I'm using 2 pulverizer and no other weapons.  You should look at what mark you want to use and how many cards you are using in air and time, and make the judgement based on that.  (and on personal play style)

Quote
- For RoL/Hope - does it work unupped at all?
If the Rays of Light aren't upgraded, you need either Luciferin or Light Nymph to make it work at all, so yeah, you basically need the Rays upgraded at a minimum.  I had the whole deck upgraded except for the Hopes and towers/pendulums, and it still sucks compared to CCYB, GotP Time, voodoo, and my own rainbow deck ("The Deck") so I wouldn't even bother with RoL/Hope.  It might be a good choice against some gods if the oracle tells you who is up next, but even then, I've always just either gone with my rainbow deck, or occasionally a specific counterdeck.

Quote
On another note - I actually immo Phoenixes quite often to get another Phoenix on the board - not just in a tigt spot. As long as I have one  when I immo, I know I will have two active on the board next round (given there is no cc from my opponent that round). Of course, if I draw a Photon right after that, I will have wasted one   that I might need later. Same system applies when I am one quantum short of playing several creatures in my hand - I can immo the Phoenix, play the other creatures and get the Phoenix going again next round.
   - But since I'm a newb that might be either common knowledge or just stupid.
Nothing wrong with that plan in many cases; I did that all the time when I played a cremation deck.  Phoenix is one of the best things to immolate because you can just bring it back next turn.  If you have a phoenix in play, another in hand, and immolation in hand, I think that it would always be the correct play to immolate the phoenix in play unless you already had 7 or more fire quanta. (I could be wrong, but if it's not 100% of the time, it'll be like 98-99%)



Offline Pineapple

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376051#msg376051
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2011, 11:25:12 pm »
Don't don't don't don't EVER (Okay, maybe there are some exceptions.) put Snovas into Grabbix.

Until you get to that point where you accumulate so much wealth you can upgrade cards like nothing, you should focus on fully upping your False God grinder.
So don't upgrade this deck, if you're going to, upgrade graboids then immolations.

But for now, I recommend massing your money so that, after you get enough rares, you can start off with a semi-upped FG grinder. And remember that RoL/Hope requires 6 upgraded cards bare minimum, so definitely don't dump your money into Grabbix if you're planning on using RoL/Hope.
Upgrading SNova's wouldn't be that bad in grabbix, but it would throw off a bit of the balance specially because that means you will need 2 novas, 2 immos, or 1 nova 1 immo (Plus the photons to power the immo's) to get the SNova out. That will make it so you get worst draws, but that also means that you can get out faster (And possibly immo a phoenix if you're on a tight spot, because SNova goes as 2 nova's.) The main problem would be with lycanthrope as it also uses entropy, but you can switch that for say, a forest spirit, or momentum even.

Yes, you won't upgrade all SNova's - that'd be wrong - so upgrading like only 2 would be alright. Not only that but SNova's are extremely useful (Speedbow, anyone?), both for, I dunno, AI3 grinding (if you want to.) and FG (Shak'ar or CCYB, for example.)

Side note : If he wanted to start FG grinding he could just go ahead and grab himself a Liquid Antimatter deck. Don't need upped cards for that. Or slowly upgrade CCYB as he goes.
Splitting the 4 novas into 2 snovas/novas does not make Grabbix faster. If you have enough entropy for a snova, you have enough quanta for everything except extra phoenix rebirths. That means that the snovas will be dead cards until you can use them, and when you can use them, you only get phoenix rebirths. It'd be much better to upgrade the immolations instead of the snovas because it's worth +2 more rebirths, not just +1 more, it works exactly the same as immolation, and he can build vng or second ball with cremations.

And sure, snovas are used for more deck types than cremations, but, unless he's completely sure he wants to drop everything until he gets a fully upped ccyb, then he should save his money for actually upgrading an FG deck so that his electrum flows enough for him to be able to fund speedbows, shak'ars, and ccyb (all decks that do not work well unless fully upped).

And yes, he could start now with LSAM and spend his money on making the best Arena grinder, but unupped LSAM nets comparatively less electrum than Perpetual Light or fully upped CCYB, and he doesn't have a fully upped FG grinder yet. Again, he can upgrade the 6 snovas in batch if he plans on going with CCYB, but he should never put any in Grabbix.

Thanks for all the advice, guys!

This leads me to few extra questions:

It seems I should probably now (or soon) choose between CCYB and Rol/Hope for my FG deck. I have no idea which is most fun to play.
  - For CCYB - should I start with Sanctuaries instead of SoGs? I have no SoG's. And what should I replace 1 Pulverizer with - I only have 1. I could play Owl's Eye or Eternity for CC perhaps?
  - For RoL/Hope - does it work unupped at all?

I could do the Liquid Antimatter deck. Is it more profitable to farm FGs with a low succes rate than it is to farm Elders or Bronze? Or is it just more fun?

On another note - I actually immo Phoenixes quite often to get another Phoenix on the board - not just in a tigt spot. As long as I have one :fire when I immo, I know I will have two active on the board next round (given there is no cc from my opponent that round). Of course, if I draw a Photon right after that, I will have wasted one  :fire that I might need later. Same system applies when I am one quantum short of playing several creatures in my hand - I can immo the Phoenix, play the other creatures and get the Phoenix going again next round.
   - But since I'm a newb that might be either common knowledge or just stupid.




Replace the pulverizer with a protect artifact, or just don't use CCYB until you get another one in Bronze special spins.
RoL/Hope does works relatively well with 6 upgrades (the RoLs). It obviously don't work completely unupped, since nothing powers the Hopes unless you add Fractal-clogging, hard-to-draw Luciferins.

FGs are not fun, they're extremely depressing to play against because you lose a lot. However, you can only spin upgraded cards in the slots, which sell for 1k each, so they're the best for electrum.

And about Liquid Antimatter, it does work, and you do make a profit, and I like it much better than unupped CCYB. I find it extremely underrated.
And, of course, I love RoL/Hope too and find that Perpetual Light is more efficient than CCYB with the same amount of upgrades, but it all comes down to opinion. :P

Artois

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Re: What to upgrade (make the fast faster) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29514.msg376059#msg376059
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2011, 11:37:18 pm »
Theres a forum thread on FG grinders, non-upped/partial/full upped, choose a deck from there, and then grind to get what you need!

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.0.html)

I have a lot of those decks, and although CCYB + RoL are good, Voodoo (modded) Bucky1andonly is by far the best FG grinder.
(I'm usually playing Voodoo or Eternal Chaos these days).

However, snovas, for CCYB, Voodoo + speedbow arena grinders are win win imo!

 

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