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Offline JangooTopic starter

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New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57143#msg57143
« on: April 21, 2010, 06:50:49 pm »

Tutorial-Idea

A lot of complaints have been made about the hardships of FG-farming recently and even some more experienced players believe it's hardly worth it anymore.
That issue aside, I have been farming electrum with a blackhole-based speed-rainbow in T50 a while ago and made a calculation that turned up a net-gain/time which was just as high as when I would farm FGs.*

The idea of the tutorial is to advise new players and those who already got to play a bit more to go into the T50 first with a specialized (partly upped) rainbow before throwing themselves at the FGs with a largely unupped deck and getting all frustrated.
Aside from the idea, that gaining just as much electrum in T50 should still be possible, new players will rapidly accumulate rare cards for later use this way.


Problem + help appreciated

Not only the FG-landscape has changed, the T50 landscape has too.
The deck relies on blackholes to reach an EM-rate as high as 60% while still playing rapid-fire 2-3min matches ... thus the supposed riches.

Now recently I have encountered a lot of non-rainbows in the T50: Fractal decks, Life-rushes, Hope-decks etc. seem to have gotten really prominent for T50 players to leave up.
If this has reached the dimension I am guessing when playing the occasional T50 match, the whole strategy might be screwed.

I would really appreciate if you could use the below deck to play a couple T50 matches (even numbers of 10) and keep track of the stats, so I can get a better idea inasmuch T50 has changed too much and how the unupped version of this deck actually performs.


I could use these stats:

- two time-segments:
1. Sunday-Tuesday/Wednesday 
2. Wednesday-Saturday
-> please keep the following stats seperated if you go ahead and try the deck:

- average time / match

- win-rate (including farms)

- EM-rate (as % of won matches, including farms)

- rainbows / non-rainbows faced - ratio (farms go as rainbow)

- card-spin-rate (exact cards are not important unless you really wanna add their costs up.)

- "RoF-factor" I don't know how to quantify this one. Not having the Uli, the Graboid and the Archangel around at x/4+ HP (like in the upped version) really hurts the deck. So far, I was still doing pretty good with it ... Please somehow report back, if RoF presented a (too) serious problem for you.

Example stat-sample:

games played: 20
won: 16 (9 EM)
lost: 4
cards: 10
rainbows: 14
non-rainbows: 6
~time/match: 2,5min
RoF: lost 2 matches due to RoF, a couple problematic ones


The deck

Code: [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vm 55v 55v 55v 590 5c1 5c1 5fa 5if 5oj 5rn 5up 5up 5up 61r 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 77f
Now I know that having 6 Supernovas and an upped Pulvy isn't exactly Newbie-class.
The tutorial is meant for those who already gained some electrum and also for those who accidently get informed on possible ways to go. Pulvy can be traded for a Deflag to start with until the first Pulvy is won.
Supernovas and a Pulvy as first upgraded cards may not be AS wise a suggestion as hourglasses and Otys, however, gaining more cash to move on to those cards next should be no big deal with this deck. Oty, FFQ and Towers are next on the list of ups and lead over perfectly to -say- PuppyChows rainbow or any other standard rainbow for that matter.


Blackholes:
When playing the deck, remember that the blackholes are -above all- meant to achieve EMs often with this deck: up to 36 HP can be healed ... keeping one or two in hand for healing up shortly before the final blow should be the standard move here, not strategically "drying out" the opponent (unless of course it's not even a rainbow).

Steals:
Use of steals with this deck is also to be handled with care: There are 3 steals in there to win an eventual "steal-war" for the Pulverizer. Pulvy is often badly needed to kill those upcoming weapons and SoGs, above all however to kill any delaying phase-shields or Permafrosts.
If you get a steal early and there is no Pulvy in sight, stealing an hourglass for yourself is usually a very good bet. SoGs seem to be a waste of steal most of the time while the occasional shield can make sense.

-----

The fully upped version is not interesting for the tutorial as such.
But if you want to try out this devastating "final-stage" T50 and PvP deck and maybe submit some seperate stats, I wouldn't complain  :D

Code: [Select]
4vm 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 74b 74f 74f 74f 77f 77f 77g 7ah 7dq 7gv 7ju 7n3 7q7 7t9 7t9 7t9 80bThis deck has been pretty short on Grav.quants before the Pulvy-nerf already, so it might be time to give that Oty the final boot and bring in the Were, a 2nd spectre or nothing at all.
After all: If you really want one, TU is often your Oty with this deck.  ;)

-----

*based on a ton of matches with the rainbow in T50 (card-spin-rate of 40% + cardcost taken into consideration: 40 elec/card on average) and the following stats for Ivalmians FG-rainbow: 58% win-rate, ~12min matches, 60%?? EM-rate, 33% card-win rate (Zanz said so)
Unfortunately, I had those stats hardcopy (pencil + paper) and threw them out but I figure win-rates haven't exactly gone up with the new gods, have they?
 

airframe

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57203#msg57203
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 09:32:24 pm »
I assume the elf is for offensive use to be used on enemy cretures? I'll try this out.

Snowstorm

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57258#msg57258
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 11:07:30 pm »
Quote
Now recently I have encountered a lot of non-rainbows in the T50: Fractal decks, Life-rushes, Hope-decks etc. seem to have gotten really prominent for T50 players to leave up.
If this has reached the dimension I am guessing when playing the occasional T50 match, the whole strategy might be screwed.
This might be useful, it's from a wednesday night. Its the makeup of the top50 decks i encounted over a 3/4 hour play session.

Just a disclaimer, i'm not 100% familiar with some deck types, and so a few might be muddled, but i'm sure it's pretty much there or thereabouts.

I was playing an un upgraded earth deck with graboids and such, so anything that out damaged me went into the 'fast' section' and anything slower i could generally thwomp went into the 'slow' section.

SLOW STARTING (25/55)
rainbow (slow): 20
pharoah deck (not farm): 2
water/darkness poison: 1
defensive earth deck: 1
entropy/aether deck: 1

FAST (22/55)
quanta denial (pests): 6
mono life rush: 5
rainbow (fast/rush): 4
earth rush (graboids): 2
mono water slow: 2
fire rush: 2
mono water fast: 1

farms: 8


Offline JangooTopic starter

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57280#msg57280
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 11:52:40 pm »

Thx Snowstorm ... like you said this will help getting the overview for the T50 landscape done.

Just to be sure: Only those called "rainbow" ended up with quantum-generation for all 12 elements right?
Or did the entropy-, pharaoh- and possibly pest-denial decks do that too?

For the blackhole question, it doesn't really matter if a deck actually was a classic FG-rainbow ... e.g. a few supernovas in the mix and a deck would be "rainbow" enough for blackhole to kick in.


I assume the elf is for offensive use to be used on enemy cretures? I'll try this out.
Yes, primarily (for both unupped and upped). If there is nothing to mutate and you have the FFQ out, mutating some flies turns out pretty nice too though: 5/5 abominations outlive the dreaded RoF.  ;)

Offline yaladilae

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57282#msg57282
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 12:02:05 am »
I dont agree with the FG part, I just found it more fun and reli love my new FG deck for v1.21

Regardless, with enough farm set up, I have also found T50 farming (tested on new acccounts) has faster electum then falsegod, and much more important more consistent

Apologies, too tired to elaborate on this,will come back when I wake up~

Snowstorm

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg57963#msg57963
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 04:39:51 am »
Thx Snowstorm ... like you said this will help getting the overview for the T50 landscape done.

Just to be sure: Only those called "rainbow" ended up with quantum-generation for all 12 elements right?
Or did the entropy-, pharaoh- and possibly pest-denial decks do that too?

The ones i marked as rainbow were obvious ones, i believe the pest decks were mostly a few colours rather than a full rainbow, but to be fair i didnt take THAT much notice.. i was just getting rough deck types down so i could avoid the ones i couldnt beat :P im pretty sure the entropy deck was a one off deck, i havnt seen it since. the ones i marked as specifically pharoah decks were time/other, rather than full 12 color split.

glad it was useful.

Offline JangooTopic starter

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg59363#msg59363
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 10:15:22 am »


Nobody wants to throw in some stats for a measly 10-20 games with this?  :(

Offline Essence

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg59529#msg59529
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 07:16:02 pm »
10:45 AM PST
1 - rainbow, rof lost a golem, EM, 1 card

10:49
2 - rainbow, oty stalled entire deck, rof killed rush, lost

10:53
3 - rainbow, Rof really hurt, win, 1 card.

10:58
4- rainbow, stalled RoF w/BH until Anubis came out, EM, 0 cards

11:00
5 - rainbow, no Rof, win, 0 cards

11:04
6 - rainbow, no RoF, win, 0 cards

11:07
7 - Time/Earth/Light/Fire (lifegain deck), no RoF, win, 0 cards

11:12
8 -  rainbow, no Rof, win, 0 cards

11:17
9 - shrieker rush, no RoF, loss

11:19
10 - aether w/Rol (hopeless), no RoF, win, 0 cards

11:22
11 - life rush, no RoF, horrible loss

11:24
12 - graboid rush, no RoF, horrible loss

11:26
13 - lava golems, no RoF, VERY narrow win, 3 cards (!)

11:28
14 - rainbow, no RoF, win, 0 cards

11:32
15 - farm, EM, 0 cards :(

11:34
16 - earth/gravity, win, 0 cards.

11:37
17 - farm, EM, 0 cards :(

11:39
18 - rainbow, no RoF, lost.

<10-minute gap while I cleaned up from my son pouring a large container of

onion powder onto the kitchen floor and dancing in it.>

11:50
19 - rainbow, no RoF, HUGE win (Stole a Trident -- Trident+Black Hole=WIN), 0 cards.
**Looking back on it, I think this was a farm that happened to be able to use it's cards.  I spun Squids, Pulvys, and Tridents.**

11:53
20 - rainnbow, no RoF, win, 0 cards



So, in about an hour, I got in 20 games, of which 15% were against farms, I won 75%, EMed 10%, and got 5 cards.  Keep in mind that this was with a baby in my lap about half the time, so it's probably a few minutes slow.

Also, I played wrong, and used the Black Holes for control/delay more than I probably should've. 
If something happens and you think it deserves my attention, feel free to PM me. Other than that, I'm probably here if you want to shoot the breeze.

Snowstorm

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg59607#msg59607
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 10:08:53 pm »
Just saving up for the last 2 upped cards and i'll be able to test it out, probably tomorrow night.

Offline JangooTopic starter

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg59654#msg59654
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 12:10:14 am »
Thx Essence ... I relived the experience. I suppose that baby was just dancing in the onion powder to express it's anger about your recent loss. ;-)

Just a note on the stats:

They don't have to be as detailed as Essences here. A brief summary in total numbers would actually be better.
Also, farms should be included in the stats as "win", "em" and "rainbow" (unless of course it fought back and you didn't actually win or em). Taking extra stats on how many farms one will encounter might be interesting, but what counts is that cash flows easily in that case which is not going to happen against FGs or lvl5s.

Offline Terroking

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg60180#msg60180
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 01:16:16 am »
Alright, I'm finally taking some stats on this deck, to add onto Essence's

Editing with them now.

I could do some with the upped version as well, if need be.

Encounters:

Rainbow-5
Speed Rainbow-3
Farms-2


Rainbow Win Rate: 6/2
Total Win Rate: 8/2
EM: 7

Cards won:
1x Rain of Fire-71elec
1x Bone Wall- 43elec
2x Relic-65x2=130elec

Electrum gained- 490-30=460+130+43+71=704elec net gain, 10 matches.

That's 10, one of the losses was due to a bad draw and the other to an incredible hand by the AI (Both Speed Rainbows).
I ask nothing of humanity but fairness in all things, but I do not expect even that.

Offline JangooTopic starter

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Re: New Newbie/Intermed tutorial planned ... could use some help on deck-stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5618.msg60304#msg60304
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 02:03:35 pm »

Now that's what I am talking about ... if intermeds get to play this deck like THIS they ought to cash up pretty quick.  ;D  The games I did aren't quite as good but very close to that.

Thx for the stats Terro. As soon as we hit 100 games I'll post a summary.

 

blarg: