black hole/discord deck -- general help needed for arena and/or ai3

[prophious]

so generally looking for a good pillar-less/pendulum-less deck(and un-upped as i have no upgraded cards) that uses black hole and discord(which i have only 1 discord so drawing it is tough).... looking for more of a balance though out all elements

use of immolation so then i can fuel the lava golems, where the photons are fodder for the immos

in total  i have about 10 max quanta for everything except fire and gravity... i also used some speedbow aspects and changed to how i would think a good BH/Dis deck would work

by prophious

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[bripod]

How much  do you have and whats your card base look like?

Yeah, one Disco in a "Disco-Hole" Deck is gonna make for some disappointing games
and 3 Photons aren't gonna let you play those Immo's as fast as you'd like...

Maybe you could fashion some kind of Grabbix if you have the resources.
That would allow you to grind AI3 a bit and gain cards, electrum and possibly win another Disco or two...

Let us know what you're working with and maybe we can guide you in the right direction.

[regen2k9]

Ideally, you would need 2+ discords for the discord-BH strategy to be effective (that two is a minimum, I would go with 3-4 if available).  For instance, in the deck "DisHole," four discords are used to give the player a high probability of starting the game with a discord in the opening hand (+3 pillars/pends = turn 2 discord = early denial).  I'm not saying you need this many though, since that is a different deck.  I just think you generally need multiple copies.

[furballdn]

You want a blackhole/discord deck? That's not your current deck at all. That's a rainbow. With only one discord. If you truly want a discord/bh deck, you should have at least around 4 or 5 of both. Right now, 1 discord out of 30 cards is not a discord deck at all. A good discord deck would probably be something like Seraph's.

by furballdn

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[prophious]

@bripod, my card resources are good, sort of... all are un-upped.... really have been trying to get them upped....
have mostly some cards in each of the elements and enough pillars/pendulums to play it mono currently have 6 different weapons with 2 on fire, also 1 nymph queen, 1 amber nymph(gravity) and 1 pharaoh along with 2 SoG(life complement)..... fire and life are most complete(meaning i have most of the cards from the bazaar), i have the most useful copies in darkness, fire and life and current  is 381 but can get more to buy cards needed

have toyed with a mono life poison deck, a gostmare deck, a death/darkness poison deck, a few versions of a speedbow, a lavarush....
total card count is 754 with about each element having at least 14 of each pillars and pendulums (making about 336+ cards in pillars/pendulums)

tbh i am looking on how to make this deck work a little better(being rainbow and such), 10 quanta is enough, but its hard to get all 10 some times.... i know i need at least 2 more discords so i will try to get them... in that case any suggestions for a good deck that can kill most of the bronze/silver arena players...... un-upped, ofc

[regen2k9]

@bripod, my card resources are good, sort of... all are un-upped.... really have been trying to get them upped....
have mostly some cards in each of the elements and enough pillars/pendulums to play it mono currently have 6 different weapons with 2 on fire, also 1 nymph queen, 1 amber nymph(gravity) and 1 pharaoh along with 2 SoG(life complement)..... fire and life are most complete(meaning i have most of the cards from the bazaar), i have the most useful copies in darkness, fire and life and current  is 381 but can get more to buy cards needed

have toyed with a mono life poison deck, a gostmare deck, a death/darkness poison deck, a few versions of a speedbow, a lavarush....
total card count is 754 with about each element having at least 14 of each pillars and pendulums (making about 336+ cards in pillars/pendulums)

tbh i am looking on how to make this deck work a little better(being rainbow and such), 10 quanta is enough, but its hard to get all 10 some times.... i know i need at least 2 more discords so i will try to get them... in that case any suggestions for a good deck that can kill most of the bronze/silver arena players...... un-upped, ofc

Whoa, unupped bronze/silver grinder?  That's a completely different story.  Tbh, a deck cannot successfully grind bronze without either PC or a combination of speed and denial imo.  The latter is much easier to accomplish upped.  If you really want to grind bronze/silver with this deck, I would advise that you try to make this into something similar to willng3's "Arena Destruction 101" (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28646.msg392615#msg392615).  In the meantime, I don't know of any unupped dis/hole arena farmers off of the top of my head.  For unupped bronze farming, I would recommend my unupped monodark (though I am biased  ) found here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30564.0.html.  Click "Show" under "Decks used against bronze."

[bripod]

prophious my friend, you are at "that point"... that point is when you want to do something but just don't have the means to do it..

Lemme try to shed some light on the matter. Elements will get you hooked very quickly but in order to become a "master" you're gonna have to pay your dues... and it's gonna take some time and patience.

First, lets take a look at the  involved in a single deck. Generally an Unup'd  30 card deck will run you roughly 2K (give or take) but if you want to Upgrade that same deck you automatically add 45K to the price-tag... 

Many peeps will sell every card they gain from wins to make a certain deck... and then they find out that they don't like said deck... and the process starts all over again and many get discouraged and drop out altogether...  I sold over 500 cards to make and upgrade a RoL/Hope Deck so I could grind FG's only to find out that the win % was much lower than I wanted to deal with. I was beside myself for days for selling all those cards...

So, I adopted another plan. Currently it's worked out very well...    My advice would be the following:

- DO NOT SELL ANY CARDS YOU WIN UNTIL YOU HAVE AT LEAST 12 COPIES (that's unup'd and upped added together)

- Find yourself a good reliable AI3 grinder and hit it hard. You will be gaining  and cards along the way as well as general knowledge on how to adapt a deck to different playing techniques.

- Save your  ... Just think, If you had 50K in the bank and someone posts the next best "Platinum Arena Killer" deck, you could buy it and Upgrade it and ride out that wave killing Plat lvl decks while gaining more  , more cards and more special spins until everybody starts playing a counter to it in their arena decks...

- Read the Forums everyday. You will find so much helpful info here that I can't even start to fill you in on it all.

- Use the "Trainer" (http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer (http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer)) to test out deck ideas BEFORE you plunk down a bunch of  on cards and upgrades... you just might find that the deck that someone else has lots of success with, is just not your cup of tea...

From grinding Ai3 you can win 122 different card types... Now that's quite a bit of savings over going to the Bazaar and buying them outright... If you feel so inclined to hit Ai2 (yawn) you can potentially win another 32 card types there... although you'll prolly get very bored doing so...  ???

There are many AI3 grinders listed in the Elder Section of the forums and you prolly have some of the cards needed to build one... regen2k9's Unup'd Mono Darkness deck is quite competitive and a lot of fun to play IMO. I currently used a semi-up'd version of it with a 90% + win rate in AI3.
Do yourself a favor and bite the bullet for a month. Grind AI3 relentlessly and in a months time, get back with me and tell me what your  and card vault status is... you'll be surprised... 

Now I'm sure that there are a dozen other players who will tell you a dozen different strategies, don't mean that any of us are wrong, just that we do things in a different way.
Currently I have 12 of every card (some up'd) and all but a handful of Rares. I have a very nice deck list that I can make for any given situation. It's just gonna take some focus on your part to get there. Unfortunately, there is no "simple path" to get to where you wanna go... it's up to you now.

I know this doesn't help you make your Disco-Hole deck idea better but I hope this kinda gives you some direction and understanding for obtaining your goal.

Best of luck my friend and hit me up if ya have any questions.

peace,
bripod

[prophious]

tbh i am looking on how to make this deck work a little better(being rainbow and such), 10 quanta is enough, but its hard to get all 10 some times.... i know i need at least 2 more discords so i will try to get them... in that case any suggestions for a good deck that can kill most of the bronze/silver arena players...... un-upped, ofc

what i meant by this is any deck ideas besides the dis-hole that i was looking for....

and thanks bripod for your information, but i know most of these.... i've spent may sessions buying-> creating a deck-> selling -> buying.... i've had over 2k wins with about 3k losses at one point then reset account not just once but like about 20+ times... so it only looks like i've been playing for about the last few months.... but in fact i've been playing about 2+ years

current deck i use is a version of a speedbow

by prophious

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but getting board with this and i have a few other decks that i use

by prophious

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at some point i did have 1 upped horned frog(giant frog) but sold it because of needing cards for other decks..... i have since decided to buy all of the pillars/pendulums up to at least 14 each(more if needed) and worked with cards that i felt were usable in most decks.... like a mono darkness quanta denier.... then i was trying to figure out how to get more  per match... and have found out how.... sorta.... with use of stoneskin and empathic bond i hit the max hp allowed(500) before the max quanta was set to 75(which make the stone skin, un-upped, give only +73 hp).... as it turned out if i was to finish with over 200 hp left i would get the same as the EM bonus.... but then get the EM with it it was double that.... one match against ai3 i got about 120  with EM..... my decks that i made with stone skin were very slow... but effective when i git the cards right... i incorporated it with the FFQ deck... took out some cards... then had about 40 cards, if i remember......

by prophious

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similar to this...

ok so generally i need a few decks that i can switch out of... that are effective, and are generally fun.... also perhaps knowing how to get the rares and/or weapons (which i think i can get from grinding the arena decks... like bronze)

[Mathematistic]

current deck i use is a version of a speedbow

by Mathematistic

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Why not grind Silver with this? It gives more electrum than AI3 even if you win less, and also gives occasional rares.

[regen2k9]

current deck i use is a version of a speedbow

by regen2k9

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Why not grind Silver with this? It gives more electrum than AI3 even if you win less, and also gives occasional rares.

Grabbow gets less than 80% wins on bronze.  Although I have not tested it on silver, I don't think it would be consistent enough to be a silver grinder.

[Mathematistic]

current deck i use is a version of a speedbow

by Mathematistic

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Why not grind Silver with this? It gives more electrum than AI3 even if you win less, and also gives occasional rares.

Grabbow gets less than 80% wins on bronze.  Although I have not tested it on silver, I don't think it would be consistent enough to be a silver grinder.

Assuming no EM, 50% winrate on silver has approximately the same effectiveness of 100% on AI3, so...

[Higurashi]

***TRIALS RESPONSE***

Pillarless D/BH decks, huh? That's a new one, I have to admit. Usually you run Discords off the mark with Novas to play them faster and gain access to PC as well as other yummy rainbow stuff. Pillarless D/BH decks would have to use the formula you're using: Gravity mark for BH's and relying on luck to get enough to play the Discord fast enough. It's not very reliable, in other words. Let's look at a skeleton build for Discord duo/rainbow decks for starters, and from there we can see how Black Hole fits in.

by Higurashi

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From here you can basically add anything or change willy-nilly. Lycans are popular for cheap damage, and some prefer -1 Lycan, +1 Nightmare. Poisons are nice for CC/shield avoidance, and another common build is with 4 Discords and 2 Flying Weapon.

Any element can be added onto to this skeleton build, though the most common ones are, of course, Earth and Gravity for the EQ's or BH's. The best duos are those that managed to bring a lot of offence to the table, because denial+speed is what you want, as I'm sure you've noticed with your Immo build.

Let's look at that one and see if we can put in even more damage. Fallen Elf makes use of leftover Photons, I imagine, but there shouldn't actually be any left over if the game plan executes. So let's change that to a Lycan for that increase in speed, shall we? Now we still have left to spend, and we're a bit heavy on , so let's switch a Blessing for a Nightmare. They're pretty damn awesome in rushes since they can do a total of 16 damage just like that, -and- stopping a draw is great for preventing CC or shields. The last change I'd make is optional, because Mind Flayer can really come in handy. Regardless, Forest Spirit makes use of the , so we can switch the Flayer for a Lightning. Lightnings are both the best unconditional CC and can be used for coup de grace (finishing blow).

by Higurashi

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Lemme know what you think. Maybe we can improve it even further :>
I'm thinking PC could be beneficial, for instance. Deflags would be closest at hand.