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BloodAngel

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Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235793#msg235793
« on: December 29, 2010, 11:02:22 pm »
Hi all, I'm getting the hang of mindless grinding Ai3, it's getting bored,
so as a switch i would like to make some sort of funny deck based on mindgate's
and do-able for fighting Halfbloods, (and maybe PvP2 or FG)

I am still relatively suckish at deck building on my own, and thus would like  some help.

Guess i'll show you what i brought up so far huh, here's the deck:
Code: [Select]
5ll 5up 623 623 623 623 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u7 6u7 71b 74a 74a 74f 77f 77i 7do 7dq 7gp 7n8 7q5 7q5 7q8 7t9 808 808 80h 80h

Don't have enough spare electrum to up it yet, can afford two upgrades, so what you guys propose to up next?, i was thinking of the mindgates  :P


Stat's will come, if someone's interested

And thanks for helping me already :)



PS. i've done litle testing with this deck only, so far im 19/20 and have had some funny matches.


Edit: Editted deck, added a destroyer & Wings, upped the antimatters, removed the reflectiveshield and quicksand

Played 50 with the editted deck, won 44 lost 6.
EM x 34 Winrate 88%
TTW = 19,32

funplay

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235842#msg235842
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 11:56:35 pm »
hmmm...ok...you want to keep the mindgates...ok

things that came to my mind:

- 2 hourglasses is bit few for a deck of this size...you might consider adding 1-2. Even if you dont use em all, they still draw PC and you really want to have one asap.

- 2 quints, but only one creature...but you probably want to have 1 for a mindgated one??

- the single crusader is in there for fun? cause 1 in 41 makes him quite unlikely to be drawn early...

- the solar shield is for early game defense or for light quanta in there? if its in there to fuel the crusader, i would simply skip both...not strong enough (though still fun...;))...if you are looking for early game defense then a fog might be more effective or even a second permafrost (my personal favorite, i even skipped bone walls)

- a single quicksand wont make a big difference...if you draw that in your initial hand...fine thats helpful. But in late game its just a dead card.

- same for a single explosion...too much luck needed and you already got 2 steals

- i wonder about the decks ability for CC...its lacks the punch of CCYB (quinted lava destroyer rocks) or the ability of CC by quinted oty...sure 2 antimatter and a fire storm, ok. but i would either add some seriuos threat of your own (big or growing creature) OR a reliable, permanent source of CC...furthermore, bone wall is only really great when combined with some reliable CC

- 4 mindgate is a lot...unless you draw your aether towers, i imagine that its hard to run more then one...3 might be enough?

so, to put it in a nutshell, things i would do:
- 1 quicksand
- 1 explosion
- 1 mindgate
- 1 solar shield
- 1 bone wall
+ 2 hourglass - faster draws
+ 1 otyugh - reliable CC
+ 1 pulverizer - simple more useful as explosion
+ 1 permafrost - you want to have one asap

wiht these changes the deck should feel quite the same, but a bit more focussed...

concerning coming upgrades: i would go for the antimatters - the difference between 8 :entropy and 6  :entropy is really important especially as you dont have entropy mark...early antimatters are often enough lifesavers!

Retribution

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235851#msg235851
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 12:12:43 am »
What's your main source of damage?
I don't think relying on your opponent is good enough.

BloodAngel

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235859#msg235859
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 12:21:17 am »
Thanks for replying :) and such a long post...
Gotta start quoting then,

hmmm...ok...you want to keep the mindgates...ok

things that came to my mind:

- 2 hourglasses is bit few for a deck of this size...you might consider adding 1-2. Even if you dont use em all, they still draw PC and you really want to have one asap.

- 2 quints, but only one creature...but you probably want to have 1 for a mindgated one??

- the single crusader is in there for fun? cause 1 in 41 makes him quite unlikely to be drawn early...
Haha, yes, iknow it isn't ecxactly great, but every match is different, and this is more for using after i'm all lame by Ai3 grinding and want to have some fun (loosing isn't fun, so hey, thats why it needs to be somewhat good ;))

-Hourglasses; I might add another, but i do have some problems with time quanta, it's a bit high, and used a lot.

-Quints; they are indeed ment for some strong creatures gained by mindgate, gotta be lucky tho'
- The crusader is for fun/trying out new cards/have both eternity and pulverizer on the field, or two of a kind if neccesary.

- the solar shield is for early game defense or for light quanta in there? if its in there to fuel the crusader, i would simply skip both...not strong enough (though still fun...;))...if you are looking for early game defense then a fog might be more effective or even a second permafrost (my personal favorite, i even skipped bone walls)

- a single quicksand wont make a big difference...if you draw that in your initial hand...fine thats helpful. But in late game its just a dead card.

- same for a single explosion...too much luck needed and you already got 2 steals
- there is no such thing as solar shield :P perhaps u confused with reflective shield, which is in there for bolts, can take it out i suppose, fog would be a good idea, as i don't use air.
- i removed quicksand, came to the same conclusion
- yh i know, the steals are more helpfull, but more expensive as well, and i got to mix the elements, so i'm not sure for what to replace him tho.

- i wonder about the decks ability for CC...its lacks the punch of CCYB (quinted lava destroyer rocks) or the ability of CC by quinted oty...sure 2 antimatter and a fire storm, ok. but i would either add some seriuos threat of your own (big or growing creature) OR a reliable, permanent source of CC...furthermore, bone wall is only really great when combined with some reliable CC

- 4 mindgate is a lot...unless you draw your aether towers, i imagine that its hard to run more then one...3 might be enough?
Maybe i can replace the explosion with an lava destroyer? then i'll use both quints as well
The antimatter help for the big critters, the shields for the low, and the SoG for the middle, tho you are right, maybe i'll add an oty in the future,
Bonewall is only ment for stalling tho, didn't know what to put in for death,

I personally never had problems with the mindgates, in the ~40 matchs i played never had any quanta problems, so i keep them  ::)

so, to put it in a nutshell, things i would do:
- 1 quicksand
- 1 explosion
- 1 mindgate
- 1 solar shield
- 1 bone wall
+ 2 hourglass - faster draws
+ 1 otyugh - reliable CC
+ 1 pulverizer - simple more useful as explosion
+ 1 permafrost - you want to have one asap

wiht these changes the deck should feel quite the same, but a bit more focussed...

concerning coming upgrades: i would go for the antimatters - the difference between 8 :entropy and 6  :entropy is really important especially as you dont have entropy mark...early antimatters are often enough lifesavers!
Did the following:

- 1 Quicksand
- 1 Explosion
- 1 Reflective Shield

+ 1 Fog Shield
+ 1 Lava Destroyer

What's your main source of damage?
I don't think relying on your opponent is good enough.
So that will be my quined momentumed lava destroyer then :)


Thanks for replying :) I'll edit the main post

funplay

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235873#msg235873
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 12:47:38 am »
having all kinds of quanta doesnt actually mean you HAVE to use it.... :P

so if fog and bone wall are in there just to use the quanta...that wouldnt be a strong reason for me...

- bone wall for stalling - isnt phase shield better, especially with aether mark?
- fog is nice in rush decks/PvP...but for stalling Wings might be the better alternative?

concerning time quanta: i know these issues...but for me NOT having an hourglass within the first 10 cards often meant certain death...its not about using them, its more about having one early.

anyway...let us know how the changes work...;)

BloodAngel

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg235879#msg235879
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 01:04:40 am »
Played like another 5 or so,

Really like the destroyer, it DOES help  :P

I'll try wings, have it upgraded, so saves quanta :D

And then keep the rest like this,
I'll play another 50 or so and tell you how it worked out

Going to bed now  ;D

BloodAngel

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg237935#msg237935
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2011, 03:49:40 pm »
So after 50 matches, yh it took a bit long, was partying :)

I stated the next results,

50 plays 44 wins 6 Losses
88%Winrate
34 EM
Average turn to win (including losses) 19,32


That isn't that bad :P and its fun to play

funplay

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg237968#msg237968
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 05:06:20 pm »
So after 50 matches, yh it took a bit long, was partying :)

I stated the next results,

50 plays 44 wins 6 Losses
88%Winrate
34 EM
Average turn to win (including losses) 19,32


That isn't that bad :P and its fun to play
well, HBs? then its doing well :) there might be better builds, but as long its fun :D

BloodAngel

  • Guest
Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg237994#msg237994
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2011, 05:37:34 pm »
Yh HB's, :D

Iknow, but this is really fun to play,
It might get a bit faster when upgraded all cards, but for now its good as it is

thanks for helping ;)


BloodAngel

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg239585#msg239585
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 04:38:38 pm »
Just wondering, i played a couple of matches against the FG's with it, won 4 lost 2
Won ferox, destiny,miracle and rainbow :P loll'ed at that one
Lost octane and obliterator

So now i was just wondering if the deck stated in the OP could be tweaked to make it FG'proof' with a decent winrate, 30~40% or so? (keeping the fun aspect/mindgate)

funplay

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg239606#msg239606
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 05:31:25 pm »
you could try these mods:

- remove wings, eternity, black hole: none of them are vital for the deck ideas, though any of them still has a nice function...

- replace bone wall by permafrost - you will be damaged with permafrost, but permafrost is permanent, while your bone wall will fail...

- add at least 1 hourglass: you really need to speed up your early draws against FGs to setup your defense

- maybe add 2. pulverizer: maybe with 2 steals you could go with only 1 pulvy...not sure. I personally prefer pulvies, as they are able to destroy multiple targets (like the endless stream of feral bonds by Fire Queen or Elidnis)...

- add 2. lava destroyer, ,  1 elite firefly queen and 1 fractal
-> new combo: play quinted ffq, produce fireflies, get a lot :fire qunta by them and play frataled lava destroyer for kill...

with these modifications you would be closer to the popular CCYB? while still being slower (due to no SNs)...

but im not sure if that version will be fast enough to survive the initial attack...but SNs wont work for you, as you need that  :aether mark to fuel your mindgates...and you probably need a decent amount of quantum pillars to play midgated cards...

If you accept a minor reduction of your "mindgate fun" aspect, you might remove some quantum towers and 1 mindgate, add 6 SuperNovas and change mark to  :entropy...this would speed up your deck a lot...

just my 2 cents...

BloodAngel

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Re: Guess i could use some help :) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18518.msg239645#msg239645
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 07:01:52 pm »
you could try these mods:

- remove wings, eternity, black hole: none of them are vital for the deck ideas, though any of them still has a nice function...

- replace bone wall by permafrost - you will be damaged with permafrost, but permafrost is permanent, while your bone wall will fail...

- add at least 1 hourglass: you really need to speed up your early draws against FGs to setup your defense

- maybe add 2. pulverizer: maybe with 2 steals you could go with only 1 pulvy...not sure. I personally prefer pulvies, as they are able to destroy multiple targets (like the endless stream of feral bonds by Fire Queen or Elidnis)...

- add 2. lava destroyer, ,  1 elite firefly queen and 1 fractal
-> new combo: play quinted ffq, produce fireflies, get a lot :fire qunta by them and play frataled lava destroyer for kill...

with these modifications you would be closer to the popular CCYB? while still being slower (due to no SNs)...

but im not sure if that version will be fast enough to survive the initial attack...but SNs wont work for you, as you need that  :aether mark to fuel your mindgates...and you probably need a decent amount of quantum pillars to play midgated cards...

If you accept a minor reduction of your "mindgate fun" aspect, you might remove some quantum towers and 1 mindgate, add 6 SuperNovas and change mark to  :entropy...this would speed up your deck a lot...

just my 2 cents...
Yh i was thinking to most of that too, currently i've already removed my bonewall, for a phase shield, proved to be way more helpfull,
but i want to get away from the 'standard' rainbow, and try something different,

I have a fully upped AI3/T50 speed-heal-bow
And i can also run the good old timebow (most upped) and a CCYB, slightly modded version, just looking for something different..

thanks for replying, but I think i'll keep it like this, and for the Ai5 Only

BloodAngel.

 

anything
blarg: