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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452570#msg452570
« on: January 25, 2012, 08:10:42 am »
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Offline Azuria

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452591#msg452591
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 10:47:59 am »
Not pro at all, but I would suggest that you switch some of the quantum pillars out for some more element specific quanta generators. There's a lot of hit and miss and chance with the setup you have now.
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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452794#msg452794
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 12:07:01 am »
nova would probably be nice. You probably can only run 1 steam machine at a time. FFQ might be a bit too expensive in an unupped rainbow like this. Don't really see the point of the quints.

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452897#msg452897
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 06:01:18 am »
Don't really see the point of the quints.
Say by by to your 45/6 steam machine when it goes back in time or changes sides and heals the opponent. Or it could be for a different creature
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Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452899#msg452899
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 06:09:40 am »
Probably -1 steal +1 deflag (more likely to get the quanta to play it, and you don't want to sacrifice your pulvies or shields). FFQ isn't really that useful in this deck. Although I hate to say it, in a stall deck like this you might want to increase it to 35 or even 40 cards. Add a little more stalling (maybe a sundial, or heal, or plague).
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452917#msg452917
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 07:29:14 am »
nova would probably be nice. You probably can only run 1 steam machine at a time. FFQ might be a bit too expensive in an unupped rainbow like this. Don't really see the point of the quints.
Drawing a single QT is always better than drawing a single Nova. The second Steam Machine is for back-up and earlier drawing. I've always been able to play my FFQ before I deck out, and the end of the game is where it really matters because it's a great damage boost. Quints are so that your opponent can't deck you out by killing the 3 key win-condition creatures (SM and FFQ).


Probably -1 steal +1 deflag (more likely to get the quanta to play it, and you don't want to sacrifice your pulvies or shields). FFQ isn't really that useful in this deck. Although I hate to say it, in a stall deck like this you might want to increase it to 35 or even 40 cards. Add a little more stalling (maybe a sundial, or heal, or plague).
I find that I'm usually choking on fire quanta if I need a deflag. (If I have permanents I want to destroy, it's because I have creatures I want to protect or damage I want to deal, which is only the case if I have a steam machine out).
Again, FFQ is just another damage ramp that takes the place of an Air/Life card (I'm already using enough quanta from the other elements).
Increasing the number of cards only 1. Decreases the effectiveness of that single Hourglass and buries key cards under pillars or 2. Makes the deck severely underquanta'd. I'm willing to add 2 QTs to fix the QI, but there's no reason to add more CC.
You made the assumption that it's a stall deck that relies on completely destroying the opponent with CC... it's not; it's a domin deck that slows the opponent down so that the reliable Steam Machines and FFQs are faster. Making it harder to start pumping damage is counter-productive.

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg452957#msg452957
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44:56 pm »
Not a bad deck at all but I don't really see the point of the two steals when you have pulvys for PC, and already the permanents you need, sanctuaries and shields.

And about the towers, I found better to replace 2 quantum towers with aether pendulums, 2 with fire pendulums, and use 2 nymph tears instead of the quintessences. It gives you both a little more water and aether income to get your creatures out and quinted and the much needed fire quanta, with the possibility to end with more than 2 immortal creatures, and offers the option to use a red nymph to get rid more easily of opponents or buff your machines attack faster (I was also tempted to replace 2 more pilars with air pendulums, to fund the queen and finish opponents with unstable gas, but removing more quantum pilars would make unlikely to get the pulvys and the demon out or enough nature to make an early queen useful).

Then to speed a 30 cards deck, I hardly see the point of using an hourglass instead of precognitions (removing the steals and the hourglass offer you room for up to 4 precogs).

Finally, I prefered to use only 3 precogs and added a mind flayer giving even more cc (very usefull against the queens/hope ai3 if you don't get the squids before they start production).

Ended with this deck  :

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(I think both yours and my version are not as good as immo rushes against ai3 anyway : got 1 EM and 7 other wins / 15 with first version, 2 EM + 8 wins / 15 with mine against ai3-, but good for pvp 5 wins / 7 in unupgraded pvp with my version)

Edit :

After some more testing I removed a sanctuary and the mindflayer, added a quint back and one more fire pendulum, and replaced the 3 precogs with sundials and it's a more guaranteed win. This deck lacked protection when start is slow (or if it isn't use all the sundials the same turn).

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Re: Waterbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35987.msg454373#msg454373
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 02:03:18 pm »
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maek it bettar.
water is a good element to splash in rainbows cause of solid creature damage and control but the deck seems to lack damage and it has quanta issues.
it's unupped and your only form of dealing serious damage are the steam machines and your ffq, wich is to expensive in a fast rainbow without supernova.
you also have skull shielsd wich aren't needed at all, as you have steals and squids so i'm going to make a more offensive rainbow of your deck:

i'm going to remove the skull shields and pulverizer. why? cause you don't need skull shield as i feel it's to expensive and risky to use and pulverizer's ability is way to expensive to use in unupped format while you already have PC in the deck. now you have 2 weapon slots i add 2 arsenics as they're cheap and effective and i add 2 graboids.
i also removed the firefly queen and the hourglass for 2 fog shields (you can also decide to add precogs to speed the deck up and decide your stragety cause you see the opponent's hand) but i felt like some cheap defence was good.

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here there's more damage potential while still having defence in form of shields, small healing and quint.
you can always make it even more aggresive by making changes like removing the steals and demon for werewolves, remove quints for PU or a couple of lightnings so just find out what build you like most ;).
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