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Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124156#msg1124156
« on: January 31, 2014, 05:45:35 pm »
Nymphless Nympheum is a deck compilation I've been planning on doing since around one month after I registered in the forums, but neved did that because of ? (dunno). I decided to write this when I started an Alt (yeah, I actually did, never though I would) and decided I'd start playing with a MonoTears.
Nymphless Nympheum aims to let players use Nymphs without actually owning them, via the use of Water's Elemental Spell: Nymph's Tears.
Aside from the MonoTears decks, all of the other decks will be Duos:

 :water MonoTears
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This is the first and original. I chose to start a new account with this because it costs only 510 Electrums and gives you a boost through building a Firecell OTK. It is meant to go against Bronze and AI3. Amongst every single deck in this psot, it is the most consistent and reliable one, basically never having dead draws, however some little tweaks are suggested:
1.Pendulum Split, dividing your pillars into pendulums and pillars equally in order to avoid greater damage from Earthquakes. Like this the decks costs 726 Electrums in order to defend against a threat which isn't a real threat by AI3 and Bronze;
2.Ice Shields, this is much more recommended than the one before. Adding two Ice Shields provides a little bit of defense against Aether decks or even rushier decks (this not being the fastest of the unupped rushes for sure). It costs 816 Electrums if Pendulum-split or 618 with only pillars.

Recommended Build: Pillar-only shielded build.

 :entropy InvertedTears
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This deck costs a bit more, 690 Electrums, but it is a lot stronger than the MonoTears because it gets healing and soft CC (opponent tries to kill its own creatures if they are antimattered) via Purple Nymph. This gets so strong that it can take on AI4 (and that's where I'm using it currently). It's consistent, although not so fast, but if the game demands it you can even go for the rush without caring about entropy quanta. Decide basing on your opponent's deck (for example, one may want to get a couple of Purple Nymphs on the field against opponents who manage to get Dimensional Shields, as long as they aren't playing an immortal build, being immortals untargetable). If one wanted to start an Alt with Nymphless Nympheum, this is what he should be playing, IMHO. Has a way to bypass Gravity Shield, differently from most of the Nymphless Nymheum's Decks.

 :death DrawningTears
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With a cost of 690 Electrums, this deck packs some efficient beaters with some nice CC at a really low cost. This is more a for fun deck, because, differently from InvertedTears, you cannot stall, because those Malignant Cells are going to hurt you, but still, dropping those 7|8 at the drop of an hat is pretty awesome, much more considering that they can spill Aflatoxin around. It is a nice AI3 and Bronze deck.
Some tweakings can be done, but I don't feel they are necessary. It'd be, mostly, -2 Death Pendulums +2 Skull Shields, in order to have a little defense and rendering those Malignant Cells useless.

 :gravity HeavyTears
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Even though it costs as much as the other 10 Pendulums and 14 Pillars decks (690 Electrums), this is amongst the least effective of all. It mostly is here because of keeping the theme, but, unless you want a heavy-counter to rainbow decks, this really isn't needed. Fun deck, not aimed to played anywhere.

 :earth AuburnTears
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Another 690 Electrums deck. This one isn't the most effective one, but has its uses. This build can use Auburn's Basilisk Blood to shut down a lot of decks in a way that even InvertedTears can. By completely locking a creature for 6 turns, you won't even make it possible for them to use their skills on you. The HP Rise isn't useful in any way, though, because already having 6 HPs, Nymph Queens are tough enough, and we wouldn't want to lock one of our creatures with no reason. It's obviously weak to Gravity Shield.
It can play against AI3, AI4 and Bronze, even though it should be stronger in AI3 than in anything else.
It's a little weaker than InvertedTears, in the end.

 :life LivelyTears
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Another 690 Electrums, but this one is slightly stronger than AuburnTears. It is rushier and, at the cost of only 2 Life Quanta it can cast Adrenaline. Adrenaline here is expecially helpful for two reasons:
1.Rush, adrenaline on the Green Nymph itself is a 12 attacker;
2.Soft Counter to Freeze and Delay (and, subsequently, to some shields, like Ice Shield).
I would recommend this for AI3 and Bronze.

 :fire HoTears
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5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 8pp
This build, at its essential 690 Electrums build, doesn't have much more than other builds, aside a pretty strong CC, even though it costs probably too much in order to abuse it. However, it being a fire build means that it can afford Deflagration, and this would be one of the few nympheum decks who can afford both PC and CC.
If you did -1 Water Pillar -1 Fire Pendulum +2 Deflagration, you'd have an easy answer to Dimensional Shield. The build will then cost 714 Electrums, a slightly higher cost than the original in order to get more answers to opponent's threats. However, Deflagrations+Nymph's Tears might ruin some of your hands because you may be a little short on quanta, but as long as you don't abuse Red Nymphs' skill you should be fine. This is fine for AI3 and Bronze.

 :light ShinyTears
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Currently working on this, even though it'll probably be the worst deck of the Nymphless Nympheum.

 :air UnstableTears
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This is the only deck that has the same cost of the MonoTears with 510 Electrums but, at the same time, is the less reliable. Not being able to use Pendulums makes this a lot less consistent but, at the same time, the ability to drop 20 damages without caring for Sundials and Shields is pretty nice. This is mostly for fun.

 :time QuickTears
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Another 690 Electrums build, but this is one of the best decks around. This is just a little worse than InvertedTears because it has less protections, but it's much faster having more efficient beaters than the Entropy build. You should try to abuse Golden Nymphs, get a couple on the field and start drawing as much as possible.
With a couple of tweaks, you can add some protection, even though it won't get at the level of continuous antimatters. I'd go with Return Times, being them cheap and instantaneous CC. I'd do -2 Water Pillars OR -1 Water Pillar -1 Time Pendulum in order to add 2 Return Times. The cost will be either 712 or 730 Electrums.
This can play in AI4 and Bronze.

 :darkness VampiricTears
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This build costs, once again, 690 Electrums. It has healing, and Nymph Queen has a nice amount of HPs for Liquid Shadow. This build is like the InvertedTears, but is a little slower because of needing to use Liquid Shadow on another creature before. However, Liquid Shadow works also as a CC.
While PC would be affordable for Darkness with Steals, they are way too costy in order to be added here, and because of that it's not doable. It works with AI4 (although not that much) and Bronze.

 :aether ImmortalTears
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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 8pp
This essential 690 Electrums build is mostly focused on beating down the opponent. Turquoise Nymph's skill is expensive and cannot be abuse. Those 10 Pendulums are there mainly in order to have a lot of fodder for generating Nymphs. Luckily, Turquoise's 4 HPs make her able to bypass Gravity Shield, and 7 damage per turn isn't something to be ignored. Her skill isn't to be completely snobbed, even though you shouldn't use it more than three times a game.
Given that there is some spare Aether Quanta, -2 Pendulums +2 Lightnings would make a nice build with some CC costing only 694 Electrums.
This is mainly to be played against AI3.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124158#msg1124158
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 05:57:28 pm »
I suggest going a bit further on the deck designs.  By this, I mean considering cost-of-Nymph-ability and weighing it alongside how-often-you-typically-plan-to-activate-ability to adjust and tweak the quanta base of each deck.
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Offline LeodipTopic starter

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124169#msg1124169
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 07:16:08 pm »
I suggest going a bit further on the deck designs.  By this, I mean considering cost-of-Nymph-ability and weighing it alongside how-often-you-typically-plan-to-activate-ability to adjust and tweak the quanta base of each deck.
I'm not home, but I'll be writing the reasoning once I get home.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124172#msg1124172
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 07:36:30 pm »
Quite. Most of these need more non-Water pends or pillars to make good use of the off-element (especially Life; AdrenaNymphs is one of my favourite fun decks for PvP1 and it runs 16 Life Pends and 6 Water Pillars/Pends), and the Air version out of these obviously needs :fire to work as your comment says it works. Reasoning to focus more on the rush side makes little sense when you can just run Monotears for that.

I feel like I've seen an NT list before.. but it was much more varied than this one. I definitely suggest putting in the support cards that define these decks and also focusing the decks more on their off-element to give them any real sort of individual flavour.
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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124183#msg1124183
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 08:45:34 pm »
Oh well, here's a general post which should answer to anything in a discursive way:
I've been playing with Nymphless Nympheum (and that's one hell of an hard name to write) since long ago and, while I never used them for tournaments or even actively in PvP, I played around with numbers of pillars and pends:
First of all, when I first designed the MonoTears (which I called Teary Queen at that time) I didn't know of Tears Rushes existing, so I had everything in my hand and had to play with each and every variable. After trying MonoTears with many cards in it (ranging from purifies to Mind Flayers with an Aether mark) I finally settled down with the 510 Electrums build. I then read of pendulums split on the forums and split them. After that I decided that I needed a little protection for when I started slow and went for two Ice Shields.
Till now I knew two things about Tears Rushes in general: (1) if you wanted to add cards, they should have a cost of, around, half the number of pillars that support them (but this changes a bit with duos, we'll see how in the next part) and (2) that a rushier build than the MonoTears couldn't exist.
I then decided to try other builds. I started with the Time one, because I read of Golden Nymph on the Wiki and I liked the skill. The result was pretty much the QuickTears (although without ever considering the Return Times since I recently got my hands back on Tears Rushes). After fine-tuning it at my best, I noticed that the better number was 10 Pendulums and 14 Pillars (splittable, of course). However I couldn't possibly know I couldn't have started with a worse elements, it being the only one who truly abuses the Nymph's skill and didn't spam Queens (I'll remind you I was a noob at that time, getting over this kind of troubles wasn't easy to me because I totally lacked experience, evne though YGO building helped me).
I then though "I need something more reliable, this sure is fast, but if there was some kind of shield, killing wouldn't have been hard". I decided to make a quick review of the other element's Nymphs:
Purple's Antimatter looked good, but I had no idea how I would balance a cost of 4 :entropy without using too many pillars;
Grey's Aflatoxin wasn't half bad, but it neither looked awesome, only had a nice body and some CC, but didn't provide the protection I needed (instead, being slower, I was easier to outrush);
Amber's Black Hole didn't look good at all, as I said in HeavyTears;
Auburn's Basilisk Blood looked pretty good and the cost of 3 :earth was affordable;
Green's Adrenaline looked nice, but still it was a rush, MonoTears did it better and more reliably;
Red's Rage Potion was way too expensive, just like Purple;
Light's Luciferin was bad, could only heal, but it needs A LOT of quanta and Nymphs;
Blue's Unstable Gas was hard to balance, expecially for a newbie, even though it packed some minimum CC;
Black's Liquid Shadow didn't look appealing, even because I didn't experience Purple's antimatter yet;
Aether was a nice rush, but, again, why trying a rush when we had Monotears?

I then took it as a challenge, I had to run the most expensive in order to learn how to balance them and, luckily, I picked Entropy. If I hadn't picked that, I wouldn't have written this compilation, most likely.
I decided to change my Time Pendulums to Entropy pendulums and, following my reasoning "2 :time and 10 Pendulums, 4 :entropy and 20 Pendulums", I changed my deck to 20 Entropy Pendulums, 4 Water Pillars, 6 Tears and Water Mark. However that few Pillars made me wonder if going to an all out Pendulum build would have been better or not. I decided to try 24 Pendulums but I had troubles with my opponent's CC, being Purple Nymphs really fragile, so I changed back to 20 Pendulums and 4 Pillars, without changing the result.
I realized that I had to make more Queens in order to have fallback Tears and still a beating power and I then decided to try the Time build with Entropy Pendulums instead of Time Pendulums. This was to try how much it was off and then fix it but, test after test, I realized I didn't have to change the number.
I also built a new rule for those duos: Pendulums of the other element should be equal to Cost*X+2 (or 3, or something around that) where X is a number I choose which is bigger if I plan on using that skill many times. The last sum was in order to increase the number of Pendulums to draw them consistently.
After reaching my InvertedTears, I decided to try other elements. IIRC, I picked Earth. After fine tuning it using InvertedTears as a base deck, I noticed that 10 Pendulums were enough to draw into them early enough and not to totally run out of quanta.
I decided to try every deck with 10 Pendulums, applying small changes to each one and finally ended up with those decks. The hardest one was, obviously, Air. I couldn't find a way out, but I chose to make it so that I could abuse of Unstable Gases if needed, and so it was with Wind Pillars.

Every deck I planned as a rush had at least a couple of scenarios in which it was better than MonoTears (even though it is the best rush amongst them): DrawningTears, for example, has CC and a way to bypass Gravity Shield (I didn't write tips for the decks, but Aflatoxin my own Grey Nymph is a trick I used a lot: lowering HP let me bypass Shields and when it died, I could swarm with Cells which bypass Gravity Shield.

The only build in which I tried not playing Water Pillars (and was succesful doing so, I'll post it later) was Time. Time has a lot of draws and rarely Golden Nymphs get killed on their first turn without letting me draw at all. Drawing that much could lets me drawing into more Tears which get in turn more Golden Nymphs. I still think, however, taht the Queen one is better for that.


Just a little note, I plan on submitting InvertedTears as an AI4 farmer because it's probably one of the best in terms of cost/UEI, but I'll have to run a couple of games.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124601#msg1124601
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2014, 06:18:13 am »
Forgive me if I missed this in the 'general post', it was a bit long so I didn't read it. Lulz.

I think the :light duo is gonna need Solar Shield as a plain rule — you'd never afford the Light Nymphs' abilities without it.
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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124602#msg1124602
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2014, 06:21:53 am »
Forgive me if I missed this in the 'general post', it was a bit long so I didn't read it. Lulz.

I think the :light duo is gonna need Solar Shield as a plain rule — you'd never afford the Light Nymphs' abilities without it.
That's a nice idea, I think I used it in some builds, but the more recent ones lack it, don't know why.
Thanks for the input.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124605#msg1124605
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2014, 06:38:38 am »
How about making :darkness a trio with maybe just 6 death pendulums? Grey Nymphs' abilities are cheap to run, plus they make great Vampires.
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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124609#msg1124609
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2014, 09:03:52 am »
So excited to see a Nymphs compilation! Nymphs have that certain feel and variety that makes it fun to play. I've been planning to make one, but I keep procrastinating  :P. I can help you make duos, if you're planning to make more decks. And if you need ideas to improve your existing mono decks, feel free to pm me.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124616#msg1124616
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2014, 11:11:01 am »
How about adding immolation for the air nymph deck? It'd allow you to keep using pends and you just need to hit one immolation to blow everything.
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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124621#msg1124621
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 02:56:30 pm »
@Andre, that's an AWESOME idea, I wonder why I didn't think about that. You won't use more than 6 UG anyway. It'll make it a trio, but I don't mind (even though I wrote they'd be duos, let's account for a bit of flexibility, shall we?).
@Undead&Emerald, as I said, I don't want to make duos, aside from the Immo one.

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Re: Nymphless Nympheum https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=53615.msg1124626#msg1124626
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 04:07:40 pm »
@Andre, that's an AWESOME idea, I wonder why I didn't think about that. You won't use more than 6 UG anyway. It'll make it a trio, but I don't mind (even though I wrote they'd be duos, let's account for a bit of flexibility, shall we?).
@Undead&Emerald, as I said, I don't want to make duos, aside from the Immo one.

  • The immo trick is one I've encountered more than once in organized PvP lately.  It is a very solid option!
  • Reviewing your OP, it states all but Mono Tears will be duos.  ?_?  What's this now about NONE being duos?  (Hint: right now they're all duos except the Mono Water)

I'm not sure from your responses if you intend to or not, but I'll reiterate my suggestion to review quanta balances of the decks instead of just "10 pendulum of non-water quanta" for each deck.
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