Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Cards => Death => Topic started by: coinich on January 11, 2010, 09:21:43 pm

Title: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on January 11, 2010, 09:21:43 pm
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Skeleton.png)
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/EliteSkeleton.png)
Skeleton (http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/Skeleton)
NAME:
Elite Skeleton (http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/Skeleton)
Death
ELEMENT:
Death
1 :death
COST:
1 :death
Creature
TYPE:
Creature
1/1
ATK|HP:
2/2
Common
RARITY:
Upgraded
7 / 5
BUY/SELL:
1507 / 1157
52m
DECK CODE:
716
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: Kamietsu on January 12, 2010, 03:21:36 am
Next to pointless. I laugh every time I see one of these in an opponent's deck. It should at least be costless like a photon.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: darkfrogger on January 26, 2010, 08:57:47 pm
Completely useless. Photon is simply better.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on January 26, 2010, 09:33:21 pm
I can somewhat see what you are saying, but you have to remember that skellies are made to be generated, not played standalone.  I don't think you can make much of a change without also re-balancing Boneyard/Graveyard.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: darkfrogger on January 27, 2010, 04:36:06 am
I was talking about the stand-alone skelly.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on January 27, 2010, 04:55:17 am
I don't think you can change one without changing the other.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: Essence on January 28, 2010, 03:11:27 am
That doesn't mean it's not worth pointing out to newbies that the stand-alone skelly shouldn't be used under any circumstances. :p
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: DJBYRON on November 06, 2010, 04:08:48 am
This should upgrade into a freaking awesome elite skelly (preferably with that name) and have elite boneyards generate two skeletons. I mean, what is scarier than a mass of walking bones (besides bees of course)? maybe a 5/5 with a scare ability that puts a creature back into your opponents hand 
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: Ryan666 on November 22, 2010, 03:56:34 pm
ahaha this is such a silly card.
Title: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Terroking on January 31, 2011, 02:39:15 am
(http://i.imgur.com/cNVp1.png)

As far as I know the list includes every creature, including Skeleton/Fate Egg.

Discuss
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: ddevans96 on January 31, 2011, 02:40:13 am
(http://imgur.com/cNVp1)

As far as I know the list includes every creature, including Skeleton/Fate Egg.

Discuss
If the new art for skeleton really was (http://imgur.com/cNVp1) I would laugh :P
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 31, 2011, 02:41:18 am
Nice, it's like taking mummy's ability and putting a fate egg spin on it. Deck with Eternity + Graveyards anyone?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Rutarete on January 31, 2011, 02:41:34 am
It makes sense thematically. i have no objection
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Retribution on January 31, 2011, 02:42:18 am
The upgraded version becomes a random upgraded creature, right?

I think that this might make fate egg too weak...
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: BC on January 31, 2011, 02:43:01 am
As longtime timebow user, don't like this at all. Maybe only make the standalone skeletons do this?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: LongDono on January 31, 2011, 02:45:08 am
I am going to love it if certain false gods don't learn to NOT hit skele's with reverse time.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: icybraker on January 31, 2011, 02:50:21 am
Nice. Improves traditional :rainbow False God decks somewhat, I guess :P

And yes, it does make sense thematically. Time for some more Undead creatures :)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 03:02:00 am
Rainbow decks no longer have to pack Fallen Druids to stack high amounts of damage.  Now they can just use the trusty Eternity.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: doublecross on January 31, 2011, 03:07:09 am
Or, they could pack the reverse time, that has new art... (check the trainer)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on January 31, 2011, 03:15:10 am
Rainbow decks no longer have to pack Fallen Druids to stack high amounts of damage.  Now they can just use the trusty Eternity.
Unfortunately that would also mean that no creatures would be available with Steal or Destroy as an ability which I generally find exceptionally useful in Timebows.  If anything it just makes Timebows stronger while reducing some of the novelty of Fallen Druids.

Cool update.  Skeletons officially have a use as a standalone card now.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 03:21:15 am
Quote
Unfortunately that would also mean that no creatures would be available with Steal or Destroy as an ability which I generally find exceptionally useful in Timebows.
Endow your Pulverizer.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on January 31, 2011, 03:23:39 am
I wonder if Undead is mutateable, as in something can get it from Mutate?  Either way, neat little upgrade for the lowly Skeleton. :)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: 7wavemaster on January 31, 2011, 03:26:58 am
Upped skelly turns into unupped creature D:.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on January 31, 2011, 03:31:33 am
Quote
Unfortunately that would also mean that no creatures would be available with Steal or Destroy as an ability which I generally find exceptionally useful in Timebows.
Endow your Pulverizer.
Okay so you replace your Eternity with Pulverizer once it's on the field?  You're pretty screwed if you're keeping yourself from decking out then.  Standing by what I said before:  It strengthens Timebows, doesn't make anything useless.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 03:38:15 am
Why would you play your Eternity so early?  If Eternity comes out you can just Endow that one before playing Pulverizer.  If you're relying on mutants to destroy stuff for you, you're relying on TWO rolls of the dice instead of one - first getting Druid early, then getting a lucky mutant early.  In my experience running timebows, novabows, CCYB, etc., mutants with destroy never made a difference.  They always came so late that I already had control of the game, or they came early but were either useless or got incapacitated right away.

The one exception that comes to mind is the Light Pillars several FGs use to power Miracles; destroy/steal mutants can speed that denial up.  But that's just a speed change, since if you're worrying about Miracles, you're headed toward a win.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on January 31, 2011, 03:45:27 am
The upgraded cost went up by one.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on January 31, 2011, 04:13:59 am
Why would you play your Eternity so early?
Yes, that's basically exactly what I just said; I wouldn't play an Eternity until endgame by which point making such a play would be extremely risky. 

Quote
If Eternity comes out you can just Endow that one before playing Pulverizer.
Quote
Unfortunately that would also mean that no creatures would be available with Steal or Destroy as an ability which I generally find exceptionally useful in Timebows.
Endow your Pulverizer.
Quote
If you're relying on mutants to destroy stuff for you, you're relying on TWO rolls of the dice instead of one - first getting Druid early, then getting a lucky mutant early.
 

Okay, let's compare the scenarios then.  First scenario is the one you just described.  Second is:
1)  Drawing an Eternity early enough, drawing a Pulverizer early enough, hoping you get a Crusader from Rewinding a Skeleton.  THREE dice rolls instead of 2. -OR-
2)  Drawing a Pulverizer early enough, and drawing a Crusader early enough.  2 Dice Rolls for this one too.  While this is a possibility...the damage potential provided by Fallen Druid is much greater than a single Crusader.  Also, let's not forget that, as you said, by using this method you would be wanting to save Eternity until late game, no?  In that case you would need to spend ~21 turns Rewinding creatures to get the same damage potential as a Fallen Druid and you would have to stop as soon as you came close to decking out.  Druid can continue to be used even after this point and it usually needs to be used after this point; also, this generally means that your duels will take longer than they have already.  For Rainbows running Elite Queens, this tactic will reduce possibilities greatly.

Quote
In my experience running timebows, novabows, CCYB, etc., mutants with destroy never made a difference.  They always came so late that I already had control of the game, or they came early but were either useless or got incapacitated right away.

The one exception that comes to mind is the Light Pillars several FGs use to power Miracles; destroy/steal mutants can speed that denial up.  But that's just a speed change, since if you're worrying about Miracles, you're headed toward a win.
As an aside:  A CCYB variation using Mutations sounds very interesting. 

Again, as I was only discussing Timebows, this is what I was saying from the beginning.  Is Druid absolutely needed for you to win?  No.  Does it increase your win rate/speed?  Yes.  Do people usually like to defeat FGs quickly while maintaining good win rate?  Yes.  Therefore should Skeleton's buff make Druid totally worth replacing?  No.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: BluePriest on January 31, 2011, 04:22:58 am
The only thing I dont like about this buff is that its really just a buff for rainbows. I can live with that though, as I think this is an awesome change
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: BC on January 31, 2011, 04:26:32 am
It does hinder timebows. Problem is, now (if you think the game will draw out to possible deckout) you have to be proactive about using Eternity on your own skeletons to grab a low cost creature, whereas before you could devote most of your :time quanta at hourglasses or at rewinding FG's creatures. I repeat what I said before:
Maybe only make the standalone skeletons do this?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Sodomir on January 31, 2011, 04:34:25 am
I don't see any problems for timebows. Well, you have to rewind the skeleton and get one random creature. No one is disturbing you to rewind this creature. When you play Eternity 6 or 7 turns before deckout, you have enough different (and maybe cheap, too) creatures for rewinding.

In my mind I'm working on a nice death/time duo :D

btw: I don't like the new art of rewind  :(
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: BC on January 31, 2011, 04:43:37 am
No one is disturbing you to rewind this creature. When you play Eternity 6 or 7 turns before deckout, you have enough different (and maybe cheap, too) creatures for rewinding.
Sounds like an unwarranteed hinderance

No
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on January 31, 2011, 04:53:46 am
Skeleton rewinds are not upped whether the initial cards are upped or not; also, i got a skeleton after rewinding a skeleton >.>
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: godofdeath500 on January 31, 2011, 06:28:21 am
And also, Undead gets carried onto the creature it becomes.
After testing this mechanic in the trainer, if a skeleton gets reversed by you, and the resulting creature gets reversed by the AI (whether by Eternity, Panda, or Reverse Time/Rewind), it gets transformed again.

I'm am sorry if I am being cryptic, but if someone wants to decipher the above, go ahead. This is the simplest way for me to describe this as easily as possible.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: nilsieboy on January 31, 2011, 07:35:13 am
i like it but i think fate egg needs a buff now...
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on January 31, 2011, 07:45:29 am
nah, fate can be played mono; Ajit's fate egg generator should progress though (:
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: nilsieboy on January 31, 2011, 07:57:54 am
nah, fate can be played mono; Ajit's fate egg generator should progress though (:
rewinds/skeletons can be played from the mark easily ;)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on January 31, 2011, 08:05:21 am
theeeeeeen... a skelly cost rise? XP
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: skyreal on January 31, 2011, 08:22:28 am
Again a great idea of Zanz! He's very inspired this time, that's cool.

I hope rewinded skeletons only become weak creatures.

Anyway I will no longer be able to rewind skeletons to avoid decking out >_< but  I'll survive ^^
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Xrbeta on January 31, 2011, 11:12:07 am
Oh, pretty good buff for mr.skeleton right here, might even think of a new deck now with all these new changes.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Marvaddin on January 31, 2011, 12:02:35 pm
I dont like it too much, I usually reverse skeletons while using my old timebow, so I dont deck out :P
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: skyreal on January 31, 2011, 12:40:18 pm
I dont like it too much, I usually reverse skeletons while using my old timebow, so I dont deck out :P
Now it replaces Fallen Elf to mutate (!)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Thalas on January 31, 2011, 12:40:46 pm
I dont like it too much, I usually reverse skeletons while using my old timebow, so I dont deck out :P
I agree. the skeletons are one of the best creatures to rewind. They cost only 1 :death ( :death is rarely used in  :rainbow) and you can get it from boneyard
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on January 31, 2011, 12:46:51 pm
i like it but i think fate egg needs a buff now...
Fate Egg... always needed a buff.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Thalas on January 31, 2011, 01:05:06 pm
Do only I think that Zanz creates slowly more powerful cards so old cards are now weak
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmizzle7 on January 31, 2011, 05:01:19 pm
Do only I think that Zanz creates slowly more powerful cards so old cards are now weak
It's possible that you are in the minority. However, a majority of the Elements community has a bad habit of calling the card balance police every time a new card is introduced for development. What people don't realize is that a new card always incites a shift in game balance. Just because the game is changing doesn't mean that the new cards are more powerful or less powerful than the "old" cards. All that happens during development is a tweaking to accommodate the inclusion of a new card or cards. So basically, no, the old cards are not weak now, but rather are taking a different role to let the new cards in.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: zse on January 31, 2011, 08:46:31 pm
Great new ability for Skeleton | Elite Skeleton, but why doesn't the title also state that creatures (Skellies) from Boneyard | Graveyard get the same buff?

Personally I don't like that the Boneyard | Graveyard gets the buff. My idea is to change Bone-|Graveyard so, that they don't make these novel buffed Skeletons, but remain making those near useless critters they have made before. To make the difference easier to comprehend, Bone-|Graveyard made creatures could be named Zombie | Elite Zombie.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 09:50:21 pm
Quote
Okay, let's compare the scenarios then.  First scenario is the one you just described.  Second is:
1)  Drawing an Eternity early enough, drawing a Pulverizer early enough, hoping you get a Crusader from Rewinding a Skeleton.  THREE dice rolls instead of 2. -OR-
2)  Drawing a Pulverizer early enough, and drawing a Crusader early enough.  2 Dice Rolls for this one too.  While this is a possibility...the damage potential provided by Fallen Druid is much greater than a single Crusader.  Also, let's not forget that, as you said, by using this method you would be wanting to save Eternity until late game, no?  In that case you would need to spend ~21 turns Rewinding creatures to get the same damage potential as a Fallen Druid and you would have to stop as soon as you came close to decking out.  Druid can continue to be used even after this point and it usually needs to be used after this point; also, this generally means that your duels will take longer than they have already.  For Rainbows running Elite Queens, this tactic will reduce possibilities greatly.
I wasn't talking about playing Eternity early, Druids tend to be useful late-game when you already have control of the field, same with Eternity on Skeletons.  Crusader is already run in rainbow decks due to its ability to run with both Pulverizer and Eternity... it really doesn't matter which you endow, but in either case Druid is an extra card, which could be replaced with the change to Skeletons.  Here's what I originally said...

Quote
Rainbow decks no longer have to pack Fallen Druids to stack high amounts of damage.  Now they can just use the trusty Eternity.
You seem to think I somehow said Druid has become obsolete, but I didn't.  Eternity is now just an alternative form of increasing your damage potential.  You said you like steal/destroy mutants, and I said I haven't found them very useful late-game, which is when mutations tend to happen, Pulverizer is much more useful and you can run both it and Eternity with a Crusader - many rainbow decks now do that.  Sure, Eternity ends up with a dual purpose and can't continue expanding your army while avoiding deckout, but I haven't found that to be a problem either.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Tea is good on January 31, 2011, 10:29:50 pm
Cheap fate egg????
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 10:31:23 pm
Dual-element though.  You need some kind of :death plus the :time for rewind.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Tea is good on January 31, 2011, 10:36:26 pm
oh, i guess. on the subject of timebows, it think not having a druid would just slow it down, remember mutation grants up to +4/+5 if I remember correctly. And most decks can only fit 1 eternity, meaning no skeleton evolving during a deckout situation.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on January 31, 2011, 11:20:27 pm
Quote
Okay, let's compare the scenarios then.  First scenario is the one you just described.  Second is:
1)  Drawing an Eternity early enough, drawing a Pulverizer early enough, hoping you get a Crusader from Rewinding a Skeleton.  THREE dice rolls instead of 2. -OR-
2)  Drawing a Pulverizer early enough, and drawing a Crusader early enough.  2 Dice Rolls for this one too.  While this is a possibility...the damage potential provided by Fallen Druid is much greater than a single Crusader.  Also, let's not forget that, as you said, by using this method you would be wanting to save Eternity until late game, no?  In that case you would need to spend ~21 turns Rewinding creatures to get the same damage potential as a Fallen Druid and you would have to stop as soon as you came close to decking out.  Druid can continue to be used even after this point and it usually needs to be used after this point; also, this generally means that your duels will take longer than they have already.  For Rainbows running Elite Queens, this tactic will reduce possibilities greatly.
I wasn't talking about playing Eternity early, Druids tend to be useful late-game when you already have control of the field, same with Eternity on Skeletons.  Crusader is already run in rainbow decks due to its ability to run with both Pulverizer and Eternity... it really doesn't matter which you endow, but in either case Druid is an extra card, which could be replaced with the change to Skeletons.  Here's what I originally said...

Quote
Rainbow decks no longer have to pack Fallen Druids to stack high amounts of damage.  Now they can just use the trusty Eternity.
You seem to think I somehow said Druid has become obsolete, but I didn't.  Eternity is now just an alternative form of increasing your damage potential.  You said you like steal/destroy mutants, and I said I haven't found them very useful late-game, which is when mutations tend to happen, Pulverizer is much more useful and you can run both it and Eternity with a Crusader - many rainbow decks now do that.  Sure, Eternity ends up with a dual purpose and can't continue expanding your army while avoiding deckout, but I haven't found that to be a problem either.
Ironic, I somehow knew you would say that.  That's not what I think at all, in fact it's quite the opposite.  I understood exactly you were saying, but the problem is that when you simply make a statement saying that Druid is no longer needed and only provide pros to back your statement then people who have less sense are inclined to go along with that claim without question.  I simply provided the opposite side of the argument because I did not want people to be mislead.  My first response was merely an attempt to give people something to think about before forming an opinion immediately; if I had known this discussion would have continued for this long then I would have taken the time to specifically spell out every single con immediately.  I think we're at a general understanding here so I will not comment on this issue again.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on January 31, 2011, 11:31:12 pm
Oh, if you were just watching out for newbies, then that's cool.  My biggest pet peeve on forums (or elsewhere) is people putting words in my mouth, but I see now you weren't.  :D
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Boingo on February 01, 2011, 12:53:51 am
Looks like a concerted effort to forge an even stronger alliance between Death and Time than Mummy alone was able to do.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Funkyvenom on February 01, 2011, 02:27:19 am
this is bad for anti-fg rainbow! without having a cheap card to reverse, they can deck too easily.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: pikachufan2164 on February 01, 2011, 02:34:37 am
this is bad for anti-fg rainbow! without having a cheap card to reverse, they can deck too easily.
It's not as bad as it sounds; you'll just have to start rewinding your own Skeletons earlier.

When you go and rewind your Skeletons, you should be able to find a relatively cheap creature to continuously rewind for stalling. In a standard Timebow, you have Fireflies (at 3 :air per rewind) as a back-up in case every rewound Skeleton ends up in something expensive.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Boingo on February 01, 2011, 03:05:45 am
this is bad for anti-fg rainbow! without having a cheap card to reverse, they can deck too easily.
It's not as bad as it sounds; you'll just have to start rewinding your own Skeletons earlier.

When you go and rewind your Skeletons, you should be able to find a relatively cheap creature to continuously rewind for stalling. In a standard Timebow, you have Fireflies (at 3 :air per rewind) as a back-up in case every rewound Skeleton ends up in something expensive.
You could do that.  Or add a photon (even cheaper than skeleton.)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Essence on February 01, 2011, 06:08:35 am
Do only I think that Zanz creates slowly more powerful cards so old cards are now weak
It's possible that you are in the minority. However, a majority of the Elements community has a bad habit of calling the card balance police every time a new card is introduced for development. What people don't realize is that a new card always incites a shift in game balance. Just because the game is changing doesn't mean that the new cards are more powerful or less powerful than the "old" cards. All that happens during development is a tweaking to accommodate the inclusion of a new card or cards. So basically, no, the old cards are not weak now, but rather are taking a different role to let the new cards in.

^^ I really wish I could put this whole thing in my signature.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmizzle7 on February 01, 2011, 06:12:48 am
Do only I think that Zanz creates slowly more powerful cards so old cards are now weak
It's possible that you are in the minority. However, a majority of the Elements community has a bad habit of calling the card balance police every time a new card is introduced for development. What people don't realize is that a new card always incites a shift in game balance. Just because the game is changing doesn't mean that the new cards are more powerful or less powerful than the "old" cards. All that happens during development is a tweaking to accommodate the inclusion of a new card or cards. So basically, no, the old cards are not weak now, but rather are taking a different role to let the new cards in.

^^ I really wish I could put this whole thing in my signature.
Feel free to paraphrase then :D

At first thought on Skeleton's recent buff, I considered that it would hurt Eternity-reliant rainbow decks built for false god grinding. However, I think it doesn't make it that bad, but rather helps to create an entirely new genre of deck type while increasing Skeleton's use, at least in the short term. I like the change.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 01, 2011, 06:37:47 am
Actually, running with Druid online, I often rewind the mutants instead of skeletons - often the mutant's base creature will have a better ability than the mutant itself, say a Lava Golem with Heal or a Chrysaora with Dive.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmizzle7 on February 01, 2011, 07:01:11 am
Actually, running with Druid online, I often rewind the mutants instead of skeletons - often the mutant's base creature will have a better ability than the mutant itself, say a Lava Golem with Heal or a Chrysaora with Dive.
I do the same thing sometimes. I'll have to do some serious testing to be fully sure, but I do think that it is more of a boon than a hinderance.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 01, 2011, 07:05:10 am
I guarantee many poor souls will botch potential FG victories by trying to rewind a Skeleton out of habit.  Including myself.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmizzle7 on February 01, 2011, 07:32:09 am
I guarantee many poor souls will botch potential FG victories by trying to rewind a Skeleton out of habit.  Including myself.
LOL yeah... I'm sure I will make that mistake more than a few times.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Kael Hate on February 01, 2011, 07:53:50 am
this will have a nice side effecton the card usage by showing genuine skeletons only since they can't be rewound and replayed.

Had a funny moment when an Adrenafrog attack my skull shield was turned into an elite skeleton and then pandemonium rewound it into a Green nymph with adrenaline which promptly died against my shield and then when I rewound the skeleton this time it became a frog again. 
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Demagog on February 01, 2011, 09:51:30 am
I think skeletons should have the ability as an active. So they'd kinda be like graboids, except instead of becoming a shrieker all the time, they become something random.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmizzle7 on February 01, 2011, 10:15:08 am
I think skeletons should have the ability as an active. So they'd kinda be like graboids, except instead of becoming a shrieker all the time, they become something random.
So... a cheaper, better Fate Egg?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on February 01, 2011, 10:18:21 am
I think skeletons should have the ability as an active. So they'd kinda be like graboids, except instead of becoming a shrieker all the time, they become something random.
Stop.Nerfing.Lucifrase.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Demagog on February 01, 2011, 10:50:11 am
The skeleton cost might be raised to two, but fate egg has the advantage of being available in a mono. And because graboids always come out to be a 8 or 10 attack creature while being burrowed, having a cheaper creature that isn't burrowed and has less attack/hp and can become a creature that's worse than a shrieker or can't be used by a death/time duo, it's pretty balanced.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on February 01, 2011, 10:59:14 am
The skeleton cost might be raised to two, but fate egg has the advantage of being available in a mono. And because graboids always come out to be a 8 or 10 attack creature while being burrowed, having a cheaper creature that isn't burrowed and has less attack/hp and can become a creature that's worse than a shrieker or can't be used by a death/time duo, it's pretty balanced.
Stop.Nerfing.Lucifrase.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on February 01, 2011, 11:02:28 am
All we need now is a spell that rewinds all your creatures on the play field ::)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on February 01, 2011, 11:19:09 am
All we need now is a spell that rewinds all your creatures on the play field ::)
The skeleton cost might be raised to two, but fate egg has the advantage of being available in a mono. And because graboids always come out to be a 8 or 10 attack creature while being burrowed, having a cheaper creature that isn't burrowed and has less attack/hp and can become a creature that's worse than a shrieker or can't be used by a death/time duo, it's pretty balanced.
Stop.Nerfing.Lucifrase.
hehehehe
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Demagog on February 01, 2011, 11:51:04 am
The skeleton cost might be raised to two, but fate egg has the advantage of being available in a mono. And because graboids always come out to be a 8 or 10 attack creature while being burrowed, having a cheaper creature that isn't burrowed and has less attack/hp and can become a creature that's worse than a shrieker or can't be used by a death/time duo, it's pretty balanced.
Stop.Nerfing.Lucifrase.
It's not a nerf. You "revive" the skeletons, they become creatures without actives, you play luciferase.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on February 01, 2011, 11:56:42 am
The skeleton cost might be raised to two, but fate egg has the advantage of being available in a mono. And because graboids always come out to be a 8 or 10 attack creature while being burrowed, having a cheaper creature that isn't burrowed and has less attack/hp and can become a creature that's worse than a shrieker or can't be used by a death/time duo, it's pretty balanced.
Stop.Nerfing.Lucifrase.
It's not a nerf. You "revive" the skeletons, they become creatures without actives, you play luciferase.
So, let's recap. If you want to even think about lucifrasing skeletons you need:
Yeah, definitely not a nerf. Luci is weak enough anyways, and you people need to stop creating complicated cards. Vanilla cards are good too.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Demagog on February 01, 2011, 12:15:19 pm
Haha it's definitely not complicated. Zanz is trying to buff skeletons. The current buff isn't really a buff at all unless you're using an old-fashioned rainbow. Putting them into a RT-death pharoah deck would probably be slow and unreliable since you wouldn't want to waste RT's knowing there's a chance you could get something horrible.

Stop playing favorites. Luciferase already got a huge buff in that it now heals. Giving death another way to synergize with time is much better than keeping some horribly weak combo intact.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on February 01, 2011, 01:26:29 pm
Haha it's definitely not complicated. Zanz is trying to buff skeletons. The current buff isn't really a buff at all unless you're using an old-fashioned rainbow. Putting them into a RT-death pharoah deck would probably be slow and unreliable since you wouldn't want to waste RT's knowing there's a chance you could get something horrible.

Stop playing favorites. Luciferase already got a huge buff in that it now heals. Giving death another way to synergize with time is much better than keeping some horribly weak combo intact.
Sorry Dema, but I disagree as well.  The Skeleton really doesn't need a further buff IMO.  Rainbow decks can easily adapt with a Photon or something; thats how stallbows work.  Its a small buff for a small card, but Death honestly doesn't need anything more on the heals of Skull Shield's update.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Demagog on February 01, 2011, 01:37:46 pm
Haha it's definitely not complicated. Zanz is trying to buff skeletons. The current buff isn't really a buff at all unless you're using an old-fashioned rainbow. Putting them into a RT-death pharoah deck would probably be slow and unreliable since you wouldn't want to waste RT's knowing there's a chance you could get something horrible.

Stop playing favorites. Luciferase already got a huge buff in that it now heals. Giving death another way to synergize with time is much better than keeping some horribly weak combo intact.
Sorry Dema, but I disagree as well.  The Skeleton really doesn't need a further buff IMO.  Rainbow decks can easily adapt with a Photon or something; thats how stallbows work.  Its a small buff for a small card, but Death honestly doesn't need anything more on the heals of Skull Shield's update.
This has nothing to do with preventing deck outs. And just because you buff one card of an element doesn't mean you can't buff another. Turning skeleton into a graboid/fate egg is much better than a mummy/fate egg and is just as balanced, if not, more. In the case of the latter, you can either us RT, which is often a waste when you could use it on a mummy, or you can use eternity, which has the same drawbacks and is expensive to boot. In the case of the former, you get a cheaper fate egg that is similar in strength to a graboid.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: GG on February 01, 2011, 07:55:04 pm
I don't think it's a luci nerf because the undead ability is probably a passive, just like Mummy's Mummy passive. As a card, it will have no ability thus targetable with luci.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 01, 2011, 07:56:38 pm
Awesome  :D
Eternity~
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: doublecross on February 01, 2011, 08:46:17 pm
Would this passive be available through mutation?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on February 01, 2011, 08:54:35 pm
Would this passive be available through mutation?
It's a passive, so unless you get a Mutant Skeleton, that'd be no.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: doublecross on February 01, 2011, 09:00:46 pm
Ok. Thanks.


Slightly off topic:
Have the abilities added in the last patch been added to mutation? Are they ever going to be?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 01, 2011, 10:18:03 pm
If this is passive, then wouldn't Luciferase work?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on February 01, 2011, 10:20:19 pm
If this is passive, then wouldn't Luciferase work?
Someone above was suggesting changing it to an activated active ability.
XDude quickly replied that th^at would unfairly nerf Luciferase.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: jmdt on February 03, 2011, 02:17:06 am
I love that the weenie cards are all finally getting buffs.  This will work wonders for the old timebow.  Now all we need is the skeleton king :).
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: sea_cretter on February 03, 2011, 03:31:47 am
wait now people have to reverse something else to keep from decking out?

 :o 
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 05, 2011, 05:06:33 pm
wait now people have to reverse something else to keep from decking out?
Now this is something I've been wondering, why are people actually worried about that?  One still has Fireflies and Mutants to rewind, so one's slow timebow isn't ruined.  Besides, it's a much needed change for Skeleton, and not rewinding them to avoid a deckout (which isn't hard to avoid anyway) isn't going to ruin any deck.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 05, 2011, 05:08:22 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on February 05, 2011, 05:51:10 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 05, 2011, 05:54:34 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
What do you mean? o-o
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: willng3 on February 05, 2011, 05:55:01 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
What do you mean? o-o
It's basically replacing Fate Egg.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 05, 2011, 05:57:09 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
What do you mean? o-o
It's basically replacing Fate Egg.
Oh..
Well I was just saying that Death/Time duos would be a viable option if this change was applied.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: xdude on February 05, 2011, 06:02:40 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
What do you mean? o-o
It's basically replacing Fate Egg.
Oh..
Well I was just saying that Death/Time duos would be a viable option if this change was applied.
Hmm.. Define Viable. In theory, We already have RT'ing mummies.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 05, 2011, 06:08:30 pm
Time+Death Duo? I like it d^^b
It's a great idea, since Skeletons aren't that useful for Damage.
It's a sad day when people build duo's for an effect they can get in mono's
What do you mean? o-o
It's basically replacing Fate Egg.
Oh..
Well I was just saying that Death/Time duos would be a viable option if this change was applied.
Hmm.. Define Viable. In theory, We already have RT'ing mummies.
I was thinking something like Boneyard+Eternity.
I don't know, you could be right.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on February 05, 2011, 06:13:42 pm
I think Wonder meant time/cost-effective, though 2 carded, it has an edge over FE since it can be changed the turn it's cast for 1 :death 1 :time with little chance of it dying/loboed before it can be changed.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 05, 2011, 09:28:28 pm
Boneyard + Eternity combo would require some kind of third card to make it work, like Plague or Fire Buckler.  As use-your-opponent combos go, I don't see this one as being very practical.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 05, 2011, 09:46:59 pm
Boneyard + Eternity combo would require some kind of third card to make it work, like Plague or Fire Buckler.  As use-your-opponent combos go, I don't see this one as being very practical.
You could always just use Schrödinger's Cat, it's very cheap, being 1 :entropy.
The thing about Skeleton+Reverse Time is that you can play both on the same turn, where as Fate Eggs need one turn for it's ability to be active.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Boingo on February 05, 2011, 09:56:01 pm
Boneyard + Eternity combo would require some kind of third card to make it work, like Plague or Fire Buckler.  As use-your-opponent combos go, I don't see this one as being very practical.
This deck (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20644.msg279976#msg279976) does fairly well against FGs. 
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 05, 2011, 10:06:42 pm
I wasn't talking about rainbows, and FGs aren't a good standard.  When talking about practical strategies, I'm usually talking about PvP.

Good point about cats, though.  You can even power that trio deck with Soul Catchers.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 06, 2011, 04:04:27 am
I wasn't talking about rainbows, and FGs aren't a good standard.  When talking about practical strategies, I'm usually talking about PvP.

Good point about cats, though.  You can even power that trio deck with Soul Catchers.
Yeah :D I don't know if it's the most effective trio, but it's definitely an option.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: frlaa on February 06, 2011, 04:34:14 am
I like. I hope zanz is aware that fate egg is now absolutely inferior to the new skeleton.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: zombie0 on February 06, 2011, 12:17:14 pm
completely ignoring the potential strength/weakness of the card, i LOVE the concept.  reversing time on a mummy makes it a pharaoh, brilliant!  reversing time on an undead creature becomes the original creature.  hopefully a card will complete the idea soon, turning creatures into zombies (maybe by biting them on the neck)

*ability*  zombie:bite another creature with equal or less HP's, that creature turns into a zombie in one turn

just a fast example.  looking forward to my zombie theme deck  :)

oh, and a weapon called "shotgun"  zombies one weakness and natural enemy  ;)

edit, skull buckler!  more zombie cards please!
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: johannhowitzer on February 06, 2011, 12:50:12 pm
Quote
I like. I hope zanz is aware that fate egg is now absolutely inferior to the new skeleton.
Except that fate egg is available with one less element and works with only one card instead of a 2-3 card combo.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: sea_cretter on February 06, 2011, 05:14:31 pm
wait now people have to reverse something else to keep from decking out?
Now this is something I've been wondering, why are people actually worried about that?  One still has Fireflies and Mutants to rewind, so one's slow timebow isn't ruined.  Besides, it's a much needed change for Skeleton, and not rewinding them to avoid a deckout (which isn't hard to avoid anyway) isn't going to ruin any deck.
@dragoon1140
lol k srry
i actually meant how ill probably forget about the new ability, and there4 deck myself out. >:|
 coz i use a slow timebow myself
ahaha i made myself sound stupid, u were rite
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: kobisjeruk on February 06, 2011, 06:21:42 pm
i look forward to these changes more than the new cards that we'll be getting
not to say those in development is bad or anything but man, skellys turning into random monsters and flying morning glory turning into immortalled skeleton? orgasmik
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 06, 2011, 06:27:27 pm
@dragoon1140
lol k srry
i actually meant how ill probably forget about the new ability, and there4 deck myself out. >:|
 coz i use a slow timebow myself
ahaha i made myself sound stupid, u were rite
Nonsense!  Nothing is stupid to say about cards in development unless one shouts "This card is OP/UP!" without testing it once.  You're right in expressing a concern, even a minor one, since we want to make Elements as non-confusing and fun as possible.  :)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: doublecross on February 06, 2011, 07:13:25 pm
THAT COMMENT WAS OP!
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: zse on February 06, 2011, 07:53:24 pm
THAT COMMENT WAS OP!
Yeah, Dragoon1140 needs to be nerfed to Dragoon1130! :-X
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: zse on February 07, 2011, 08:33:58 am
!BUG ALERT!
I'm using Skull Shield to turn AI creatures into Skeletons.
Then AI rewinds Skeleton with Eternity - Result: Skeleton sometimes goes on top of deck. (BUG)
Then AI plays the Skeleton and rewinds it with Eternity - Result: Skeleton goes on top of deck. (BUG)
Then AI plays the Skeleton and I rewind it with Eternity - Result: Skeleton turns into random creature. (Like it should.)

(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd137203/Skeleton_bug1_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd137203/Skeleton_bug1)(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd137204/Skeleton_bug2_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd137204/Skeleton_bug2)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Wonder on February 07, 2011, 09:54:53 pm
!BUG ALERT!
I'm using Skull Shield to turn AI creatures into Skeletons.
Then AI rewinds Skeleton with Eternity - Result: Skeleton sometimes goes on top of deck. (BUG)
Then AI plays the Skeleton and rewinds it with Eternity - Result: Skeleton goes on top of deck. (BUG)
Then AI plays the Skeleton and I rewind it with Eternity - Result: Skeleton turns into random creature. (Like it should.)

(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd137203/Skeleton_bug1_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd137203/Skeleton_bug1)(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd137204/Skeleton_bug2_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd137204/Skeleton_bug2)
Should be an easy fix!
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 08, 2011, 01:22:44 am
Rainbow decks no longer have to pack Fallen Druids to stack high amounts of damage.  Now they can just use the trusty Eternity.
Actually imo regarding that mutants have abilities that no creature has (steal has been a game changer >.<), I would like to keep Fallen in my deck for such purposes, also it helps fix those annoying bad Undeads; and a common tactic that I use is mutating the opponents creatures and then reverse timing them, making them useless most of the time, and of course delaying the opponent's deck draws by a turn.  So Fallens still have a solid spot in my deck.

Actually after examining some beta decks with this and Skull Buckler, double RT works just as well, so I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Marvaddin on February 08, 2011, 04:21:40 am
Beyond that, the Fallen Druid mutants are never vanilla creatures (although some skills are really useless).

The main thing I dislike about this, is that the skeleton looks like from an humanoid creature. It seems strange it being able to return to, lets say, a dragon, or even more strange, a virus. If skeletons are really going to have this skill, looks like we should create a list of possible creatures.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Neopergoss on February 08, 2011, 04:12:10 pm
Beyond that, the Fallen Druid mutants are never vanilla creatures (although some skills are really useless).

The main thing I dislike about this, is that the skeleton looks like from an humanoid creature. It seems strange it being able to return to, lets say, a dragon, or even more strange, a virus. If skeletons are really going to have this skill, looks like we should create a list of possible creatures.
I disagree. First of all, not everything should have to be 100% rational. Second of all, a boneyard generates a skeleton when a virus dies, so why shouldn't a skeleton be able to be reversed into a virus?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Destiny on February 08, 2011, 04:20:20 pm
Bone dragon should have this too. If targeted with reverse time it turns into a live dragon with half of the original bone dragon's attack and health. Just thinking.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: jmdt on February 08, 2011, 04:43:20 pm
Bone dragon should have this too. If targeted with reverse time it turns into a live dragon with half of the original bone dragon's attack and health. Just thinking.
That would actually be a big nerf to one of the better dragons.  While thematically it may fit, it better get like 15+ attack to be worthwhile.  Some things are best left alone.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Essence on February 08, 2011, 05:47:03 pm
OK, 1) bone dragon is one of the better dragons?

and 2) Why not just have it turn into a random other dragon?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Neopergoss on February 08, 2011, 05:54:12 pm
2) Why not just have it turn into a random other dragon?
I thought about the exact same thing. At first I thought it would be a buff because one RT on the dragon wouldn't really do much. The problem, though, is that the second RT would likely make it unplayable. So overall I think it would be a nerf. It would be a mixed blessing, as they say; better for situations when someone only has a few RT's and you're low on quanta and worse against something like a time mono with eternity, hourglasses, and tons of RT to draw. I guess it would be interesting and consistent with the mummy/skeleton thing.

It would be good in a dragon rainbow, esp a timebow.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: kobisjeruk on February 09, 2011, 08:46:39 am
2) Why not just have it turn into a random other dragon?
the same reason why not all aether creatures have built-in immaterial

while i completely agree, thematically bone dragon should be able to turn into other random dragon if targeted by rewind effect, its a bit bland when there are too much synergy between 2 elements using the same mechanic like that
plus, if it does happen, you cant allow skelly to turn into a random dragon (for the sake of balance purposes)
all in all, maybe just stick it to mummy and skeleton for now
bone dragon is ok imo, no buff or nerf needed
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Essence on February 09, 2011, 02:50:48 pm
Well then obviously we need to create a phat new Death card called Dracolich that an Ivory Dragon turns into when Rewound. 8)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: coinich on February 09, 2011, 03:31:27 pm
I'm not sure I think this Rewind idea should be one of Death's main mechanics though.  Its not all together that strong, and if it becomes Deaths signature "trick" I it will blot many other options out.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: 10 men on February 11, 2011, 11:04:56 am
It also doesn't even make sense. Since when can you turn undead creatures back to life by using a simple spell? Have you ever seen a horror/fantasy movie where that was possible?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Jappert on February 11, 2011, 11:08:53 am
It also doesn't even make sense. Since when can you turn undead creatures back to life by using a simple spell? Have you ever seen a horror/fantasy movie where that was possible?
Since 1.27

Why does everything have to be done by movies or whatever before it enters Elements? We're not dependant on what others have come up with, we write our own history!
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Neopergoss on February 11, 2011, 02:13:06 pm
It also doesn't even make sense. Since when can you turn undead creatures back to life by using a simple spell? Have you ever seen a horror/fantasy movie where that was possible?
Since 1.27
Actually you could already do that with the mummy.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on February 11, 2011, 02:40:18 pm
It also doesn't even make sense. Since when can you turn undead creatures back to life by using a simple spell? Have you ever seen a horror/fantasy movie where that was possible?
Yes. I have seen Time magic used to unbirth the living, rejuvenate the old and restore the undead to life. (True it was not in a movie but it was in a more credible source. D&D.)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: HeartNotes on February 12, 2011, 03:44:27 pm
I dunno, I'm looking forward to it. I've never really used Death heavily against AI3 or AI4 or AI5 because it gets stomped and I can foresee this as a good addition to Duo, Trio, and Rainbow decks.  8)

My only gripe would be that Fate Egg still costs 4 quanta, making the skeleton a better Fate Egg in some ways since it can at least attack on the turn before.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on February 12, 2011, 05:00:21 pm
Adding 2 types of quanta can be compared to mono quanta by increasing the duo total by 1

Skeleton + Reverse Time (Cheapest version would be Eternity) vs Fate Egg
Cost Comparison
Cost TypeFate EggSkeleton
Eternity
Skeleton
Reverse Time
Quanta Casting Cost3 :time1|2 :death1|2 :death
Quanta Activation Cost1 :time3 :time3|1 :time
Turn Cost100
Draw Cost11.16672
Deck Slot Cost11.16672
Estimated Equivalent77.33|8.339|8
Fate Egg is still supreme although it is close between unupped Fate Egg and unupped Skeleton + Eternity
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: BluePriest on February 14, 2011, 03:34:24 pm
The best thing this has going for it against fate egg is that it works better with boneyard. Of course, you could then say that you can use fractal to get more fate eggs, however, that puts it right back into a duo, getting rid of one of the main advantages of fate egg (imho)
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: az4rel on February 14, 2011, 08:32:33 pm
Skeleton + Reverse Time (Cheapest version would be Eternity) vs Fate Egg
Cost Comparison
Cost TypeFate EggSkeleton
Eternity
Skeleton
Reverse Time
Quanta Casting Cost3 :time 1|2 :death 1|2 :death
Quanta Activation Cost1 :time 3 :time 3|1 :time
Turn Cost100
Draw Cost11.16672
Deck Slot Cost11.16672
Estimated Equivalent77.33|8.339|8
Fate Egg is still supreme although it is close between unupped Fate Egg and unupped Skeleton + Eternity
wait1+3+2+2= 8 not 9
 and  2+1+2+2= 7 not 8

edit:also1+3+1.1663+1.1663= 6.33
   and 2+3+1.1663+1.1663=7.33
thus being mono and not prone to bad draws is the only advantage of fate egg.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on February 14, 2011, 10:04:12 pm
Skeleton + Reverse Time (Cheapest version would be Eternity) vs Fate Egg
Cost Comparison
Cost TypeFate EggSkeleton
Eternity
Skeleton
Reverse Time
Quanta Casting Cost3 :time 1|2 :death 1|2 :death
Quanta Activation Cost1 :time 3 :time 3|1 :time
Turn Cost100
Draw Cost11.16672
Deck Slot Cost11.16672
Estimated Equivalent77.33|8.339|8
Fate Egg is still supreme although it is close between unupped Fate Egg and unupped Skeleton + Eternity
wait1+3+2+2= 8 not 9
 and  2+1+2+2= 7 not 8

edit:also1+3+1.1663+1.1663= 6.33
   and 2+3+1.1663+1.1663=7.33
thus being mono and not prone to bad draws is the only advantage of fate egg.
Adding 2 types of quanta can be compared to mono quanta by increasing the duo total by 1
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: az4rel on February 14, 2011, 10:53:16 pm
Skeleton + Reverse Time (Cheapest version would be Eternity) vs Fate Egg
Cost Comparison
Cost TypeFate EggSkeleton
Eternity
Skeleton
Reverse Time
Quanta Casting Cost3 :time 1|2 :death 1|2 :death
Quanta Activation Cost1 :time 3 :time 3|1 :time
Turn Cost100
Draw Cost11.16672
Deck Slot Cost11.16672
Estimated Equivalent77.33|8.339|8
Fate Egg is still supreme although it is close between unupped Fate Egg and unupped Skeleton + Eternity
wait1+3+2+2= 8 not 9
 and  2+1+2+2= 7 not 8

edit:also1+3+1.1663+1.1663= 6.33
   and 2+3+1.1663+1.1663=7.33
thus being mono and not prone to bad draws is the only advantage of fate egg.
Adding 2 types of quanta can be compared to mono quanta by increasing the duo total by 1
lol you should have started with that
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: HeartNotes on February 19, 2011, 05:57:30 pm
Well, I am looking forward to the Skeleton / Fate Egg combo decks...
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on February 27, 2011, 08:42:10 am
I would like to see something like a "Skull King" who either

-Generates 1 skeleton each turn (like Pharoh or FireFly Queen)
-Increase every skeletons attack by 2 when it is summoned. (it may be OP, but I am brainstorming,feel free to edit)
-Have a stat like X/7, X being how many Skeletons you have out.

But Skeleton is a very versetile card, but are those "Never Upgrade These" cards
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: Hodari on February 27, 2011, 09:37:53 am
I would like to see something like a "Skull King" who either

-Generates 1 skeleton each turn (like Pharoh or FireFly Queen)
-Increase every skeletons attack by 2 when it is summoned. (it may be OP, but I am brainstorming,feel free to edit)
-Have a stat like X/7, X being how many Skeletons you have out.

But Skeleton is a very versetile card, but are those "Never Upgrade These" cards
I'd say the second one would only be OP if the effect stacks when there's more than 1 SK in play or if it stacks with eclipse.  The last one MIGHT be OP with fractal but probably not too bad even then.  In any case, submit it as a card idea and add a poll for which option would be best.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: collimatrix on February 28, 2011, 05:03:10 am
Why not give it only a 50% chance of working?  Perhaps a "foot soldier" 2/2 colorless creature could be added, and give it a 50% chance of turning into that.

Something similar to the mutation mechanic.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: coinich on March 01, 2011, 01:17:30 pm
In fact, there was a Skeleton King card in the Armory.  Don't let that keep you from making your own!
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: Seiya on March 02, 2011, 01:56:01 am
Skeleton's new ability is interesting in that it is a slight nerf to Eternitybows.  No longer can you rewind your skeleton and replay it every turn. . .
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: MrBlonde on March 02, 2011, 09:44:58 am
Skeleton's new ability is interesting in that it is a slight nerf to Eternitybows.  No longer can you rewind your skeleton and replay it every turn. . .
It also kinda nerfs skull shield in an indirect way. I tried adding a skull shield in my FG decks but found that FG's with rewind would just rewind them into nasty creatures.

But oh well. No matter. Skull Shield is for War!
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: lskpiano on March 04, 2011, 02:29:52 am
Okay, how many other noobs (besides me) were totally freaked out when Eternity mutated a Skeleton instead of putting in back in the deck?

ROFLMAO!!

Finally figured it out. Good thing I've been reading the Forums. It finally rang a bell, that Skeleton had been changed recently.

Thanks,
LSK
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on March 04, 2011, 02:48:01 am
Eh, now this one gets an effect? Hope that it can turn to Pharaoh after it's targetted by Reverse Time.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on March 04, 2011, 03:57:37 am
Eh, now this one gets an effect? Hope that it can turn to Pharaoh after it's targetted by Reverse Time.
It can turn into a Pharaoh but Mummy has a better chance of turning into Pharaoh
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: funerallaughter on March 04, 2011, 04:08:15 am
Eh, now this one gets an effect? Hope that it can turn to Pharaoh after it's targetted by Reverse Time.
It can turn into a Pharaoh but Mummy has a better chance of turning into Pharaoh
I don't know about you, but I think this was OT's funny side :3
Title: Re: Skeleton | Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on March 04, 2011, 04:32:29 am
Eh, now this one gets an effect? Hope that it can turn to Pharaoh after it's targetted by Reverse Time.
It can turn into a Pharaoh but Mummy has a better chance of turning into Pharaoh
I don't know about you, but I think this was OT's funny side :3
Actually I was being entirely serious making sure that Mummy's effect was known.
But looking back at it I can see a kind of humor.
Yes, that is the kinda humor you would expect from me online. Accidental straightman humor.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: shteev on March 10, 2011, 08:44:10 pm
Skeleton's new ability is interesting in that it is a slight nerf to Eternitybows.  No longer can you rewind your skeleton and replay it every turn. . .
You can rewind the new creature, tho, and if you have multiple skeletons, they'll probably all turn into things which need different mana to recast so you can rewind a different one every turn so you don't run out of one type of mana.
Title: Re: Skeleton / Elite Skeleton
Post by: zupermannd on March 12, 2011, 01:38:40 pm
Skeleton's new ability is interesting in that it is a slight nerf to Eternitybows.  No longer can you rewind your skeleton and replay it every turn. . .
You can rewind the new creature, tho, and if you have multiple skeletons, they'll probably all turn into things which need different mana to recast so you can rewind a different one every turn so you don't run out of one type of mana.
yes
I atually think it is a good buff to Eternitybows, becourse Now you get good creature until you need to prevent deckout, and at that time you probably has something good from the rewinded creatures
But it is just different oppinion  :)

Title: Re: Skeleton / Skeleton
Post by: Thiefboy109 on March 22, 2011, 08:10:42 pm
Yeah, the Skeletons new ability can be good or bad.
I did lose like 5 games before I started to remember not to rewind skeles though...
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: neuroleptics on April 27, 2012, 02:27:04 pm
i never wanna use skeleton at all, waste my slot ....low damage, low health, poison is better, mummy + reverse time.....
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: moosemunch on June 09, 2012, 02:18:41 pm
There actually IS a use for this. It's a perfect aflatoxin on your own side fodder, and you can put it in a time/death deck and abuse the reverse time ability.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: furballdn on June 09, 2012, 07:57:37 pm
There actually IS a use for this. It's a perfect aflatoxin on your own side fodder, and you can put it in a time/death deck and abuse the reverse time ability.
Why not just use sparks/photons? Why not just use fate egg?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: bobknows on June 09, 2012, 11:47:03 pm
Well, over sparks and photons because they screw the mulligan and over fate egg because they cost less to mutate if using the card, and use both types of quanta (thus preventing strain on time) if using eternity.
Also, ifusing mummies you might as well use skellys too
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: neuroleptics on July 06, 2012, 08:17:01 am
i prefer playing mummy....this is the only card in  :death that i don't even care to buy.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: bobknows on July 06, 2012, 03:19:29 pm
i prefer playing mummy....this is the only card in  :death that i don't even care to buy.
i somewhat agree with this, i think the current theme is: if a card can be produced by another card then it is not standalone.
examples: phoenix/ash, aflatoxin/malignant cell, mutants/mutation or fallen druid. (did i miss any? purposefully excluding fractal)
2 exceptions: boneyard/this and mummy/pharoh.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: OldTrees on July 06, 2012, 04:14:56 pm
i prefer playing mummy....this is the only card in  :death that i don't even care to buy.
i somewhat agree with this, i think the current theme is: if a card can be produced by another card then it is not standalone.
examples: phoenix/ash, aflatoxin/malignant cell, mutants/mutation or fallen druid. (did i miss any? purposefully excluding fractal)
2 exceptions: boneyard/this and mummy/pharoh.
2 more exceptions: Firefly Queen/Firefly and Pharaoh/Scarab. Skeleton is the only standalone that can be produced that does not have a defined niche of its own.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Absol on July 06, 2012, 04:26:22 pm
Firefly and Scarab is available standalone and is fractallable. (Firefly for Hope fodder and Scarab as general strategy)
Fractalling this is not a viable strategy.
Is this UP?
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Shantu on July 06, 2012, 05:39:59 pm
It may be underpowered but it certainly needs no buff. Skeleton's purpose is to be a worthless creature. The rewindability is just a plus.

Also, you can't quite compare it to Firefly and Scarab, since those cost more quanta than skeletons. Dragonfly and Déja Vu would be better comparisons.
And well.. upped skeleton spam with eclipse can actually be viable, though far from competitive.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 06, 2012, 06:17:13 pm
As UP as it is, it can't really be buffed because of Boneyard | Graveyard.  Can't have too many moderate creatures popping out.
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: comeon23 on December 21, 2012, 12:44:29 am
this card is fun for randomness descks or in death gravity as otugyh fodder
Title: Re: Skeleton | Elite Skeleton
Post by: kimham8a on December 21, 2012, 03:55:27 am
This card isn't meant to be in a deck it's just a filler card that happens to be in the bazaar for lulz.
blarg: