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Offline dracomageat

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368879#msg368879
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2011, 04:21:26 pm »
So Mindgate, this, Sundials and a full set of Phase Shields and not only am I untouchable but you kill yourself.
Now just throw in a few other devastating permanents so your opponent can't destroy them all and you're set.
This is dumb.
Super dumb!

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368883#msg368883
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2011, 04:25:34 pm »
If its set to 3 turns, I dont see how it will be any more powerful than a phase shield. In fact, it will have disadvantages that a phase shield doesnt have. I would almost say at 3 turns, phase shield is better. Sure momentum can get through phase shield, but phase shield doesnt leave you with 1 hp. Perhaps thats why Zanz has it set for 5? The stalling potential at 5 turns is what worries me though.

List of counters for the elements for SoS:
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal, liquid shadow
 :death-none
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-antimatter, purple nymph
 :fire-explosion
 :gravity-none
 :life-none
 :light-holy flash
 :time-sundial
 :water-none
Also user can not use any healing cards.

Compare to phase shields weaknesses
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal
 :death-poison
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-none
 :fire-explosion, fire bolt
 :gravity-momentum, chargers
 :life-none
 :light-none
 :time-none
 :water-ice bolt

it was a quick list, so I probably missed something on both sections though...

edit
If you want to get technical, I could add cards such as lightning or shockwave to both catagories, as you could attack your own creatures when SoS is on the field, or target the opponent directly if they are using Phase shield, however, I am trying to keep the list to things that are either continuous (like using liquid shadow to make an opponents creature hurt  instead of heal) or could be deadly (holy flash can easily be deadly against SoS, and Fire/Ice bolt have huge damage potential against phase shield, meanwhile unless the opponent is hurting when the phase shield is played, lightning would just cause a small dent in HP)
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Offline 1world24

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368888#msg368888
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2011, 04:37:41 pm »
List of counters for the elements for SoS:
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal
 :death-none
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-Antimatter
 :fire-explosion
 :gravity-none
 :life-none
 :light-holy flash
 :time-sundial
 :water-none
Also user can not use any healing cards.

Compare to phase shields weaknesses
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal
 :death-poison
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-none
 :fire-explosion, fire bolt
 :gravity-momentum, chargers
 :life-none
 :light-none
 :time-none
 :water-ice bolt

it was a quick list, so I probably missed something on both sections though...
Added antimatter since when it hits it heals which will damage

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368891#msg368891
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2011, 04:40:42 pm »
it was a quick list, so I probably missed something on both sections though...
Missed water being able to counter both by using its new shard(assuming it keeps the currently planned form)

Offline Onizuka

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368893#msg368893
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2011, 04:41:41 pm »
Antimatter and BE are counters, also any cards that can kill off/delay/RT your own creatures.  LS on opponents creature is a counter as well.
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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368899#msg368899
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2011, 04:58:44 pm »
it was a quick list, so I probably missed something on both sections though...
Missed water being able to counter both by using its new shard(assuming it keeps the currently planned form)
not confrmed yet so  didnt add it
Antimatter and BE are counters, also any cards that can kill off/delay/RT your own creatures.  LS on opponents creature is a counter as well.
added AM and LS since those can actually reverse the effect. I didnt add Soft Control such as rewind, as just killing creatures isnt as noticable (same with why I didnt add shockwave to the phase shield list)
Clarified this more in my post of counters
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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368905#msg368905
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2011, 05:04:10 pm »
Fix:
Lose x/nths of your current hp, healing and damage are reversed, lasts 3 turns.

Example:
Lose half your current hp, healing and damage are reversed, lasts 3 turns.
I like the idea of going down to 1 health personally.
I do too but it causes too great a gap between the 2 uses (healing vs turn negation). This gap if maintained requires one use to be OP or UP. That is not ideal.
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Offline 10 men

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368914#msg368914
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2011, 05:28:19 pm »
The main problem with SoS in its current form is that as soon as it's played, the game is essentially over. Either the opponent has a counter for it, then you're dead because you were on 1 HP, or he doesn't, then you win (unlikely he'll come back after you chained several SoS together). This does not make for fun, interactive gameplay. I think the card needs a major overhaul, or even an entirely different mechanic.
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Offline Jaymanfu

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368931#msg368931
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2011, 06:49:10 pm »
I was thinking of something, but in keeping the card a little similiar.

You lose 20 hp. Healing and Damage is inverted for one turn. Trigger 3 death effects.

Something like that /shrug.

Offline the dictator

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368981#msg368981
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2011, 08:20:40 pm »
If its set to 3 turns, I dont see how it will be any more powerful than a phase shield. In fact, it will have disadvantages that a phase shield doesnt have. I would almost say at 3 turns, phase shield is better. Sure momentum can get through phase shield, but phase shield doesnt leave you with 1 hp. Perhaps thats why Zanz has it set for 5? The stalling potential at 5 turns is what worries me though.

List of counters for the elements for SoS:
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal, liquid shadow
 :death-none
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-antimatter, purple nymph
 :fire-explosion
 :gravity-none
 :life-none
 :light-holy flash
 :time-sundial
 :water-none
Also user can not use any healing cards.

Compare to phase shields weaknesses
 :aether-none
 :air-none
 :darkness-steal
 :death-poison
 :earth-pulvy
 :entropy-none
 :fire-explosion, fire bolt
 :gravity-momentum, chargers
 :life-none
 :light-none
 :time-none
 :water-ice bolt

it was a quick list, so I probably missed something on both sections though...

edit
If you want to get technical, I could add cards such as lightning or shockwave to both catagories, as you could attack your own creatures when SoS is on the field, or target the opponent directly if they are using Phase shield, however, I am trying to keep the list to things that are either continuous (like using liquid shadow to make an opponents creature hurt  instead of heal) or could be deadly (holy flash can easily be deadly against SoS, and Fire/Ice bolt have huge damage potential against phase shield, meanwhile unless the opponent is hurting when the phase shield is played, lightning would just cause a small dent in HP)
No love for drain life?

Anyway, this card has the potential to be very powerful, against certain opponents, or turn out to be quite useless, which makes it a nice gamble to use it, however, it think the gambling effect is too big: you get 5 turns of immortality, or your opponent has some counter and kills you immediately. Btw, using Liquid Shadow as a counter would be quite hard, because: your opponents creatures need to deal more damage than your creatures heal him (or you will outheal the damage done by his creatures).
Now another nice thing to think about, what happens if you use drain life on yourself with this card in effect (and at 1 hp)?
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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg368999#msg368999
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2011, 09:04:43 pm »
however, it think the gambling effect is too big: you get 5 turns of immortality, or your opponent has some counter and kills you immediately.
Yeah, definitely a big gamble.  It would be best saved for a point where you are about to die otherwise anyway and therefore have nothing to lose

Offline Essence

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Re: Shard of Sacrifice https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28840.msg369001#msg369001
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2011, 09:18:11 pm »
^^ That's exactly why it makes for such a dangerous stall card.  If you're going to lose all but one HP anyway, there's no reason to play one earlier than absolutely necessary.  That means that, unlike Phase Shield, you have no reason whatsoever to start chaining early, which makes the stall factor even more powerful.
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