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Cisco

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13364#msg13364
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2009, 04:48:09 pm »
add adrenalin to the cell and the every other turn becomes mute

Offline Essence

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13398#msg13398
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2009, 07:04:49 pm »
Quote
1 - Increasing the cost of the card (again). Killing a creature while ignoring its DEF is - by itself - already worth the cost.
Not quite.  Mutation also ignores Def, and results in a creature being created in the old creature's place.  As it's player-targeted, it'll only be played on enemy creatures that are very likely to be replaced by something less powerful in the first place, so Mutation already somewhat occupies this role.  Aflatoxin is just a more sure-thing.  Without the replicating-cancer-cells, I doubt this would see much play if it had a cost above 5 or 6.


Quote
2 - Turning cancer cells into 1/1 creatures, this way, when used on the opponent, the damage from his cancer cells will force force the player to use at least a shield. This would however make the use of carcinogen on your side even more attractive.
As long as they stay 'other' and not 'death', I think this is a great idea.  It'll mean Skull Shield sees some playtime. ;)  I think using carcinogen on your own side is a good risk: get 28 1/1 attackers, but lose any ability to play anything else.  If your opponent plays any dmg-preventing shield, you lose.  If he has RoF/Plague/Thunderstorm, you lose.  And really, 28 damage/turn is easy as pie to just outpace to victory, especially as it takes at least 7 turns to set up (under optimal conditions).  It also makes Fire Shield/Ice Shield/Turtle Shield etc effective deterrents to cell growth.

I'm all for this idea.  It will be something that you will have to give serious consideration to primarily because it will limit your future development, knowing that there's a way for players to essentially ensure a fieldfull of 1/1 monsters given 2 cards and several turns.   On the other hand, it might be a springboard for new ideas, too!  (Occult Ritual: 4Darkness: target a creature you control.  All other creatures you control die, and you gain 1 darkness quanta per creature that dies in this manner.  :D )



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2.1 - Turning cancer cells into 1/2 creatures (1/1 if carcinogen is upgraded) and limiting the use of carcinogen to only enemy creatures. This would reduce the card versatility but it gets rid of multiple exploitation problems.
Meh.  This seems too heavy-handed.  Really, it's not like there are lots of ways to exploit a fieldfull of creatures.  Elements doesn't have much by way of "do X effect, where X is the number of creatures in play".  There are no Kjeldoran Warlords, Skyshroud Vampires, or the like.  We've got Feral Bond, and seriously, a Life/Death deck that plays Aflatoxin in order to abuse Feral Bond just doesn't sound that scary to me.


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3 - Limit the use of carcinogen to creature with HP<7 (7 is just an example). I still do not like cards that completely ignore the creature defense stat.
I like the infect-the-target idea better, but I do agree that it needs to be more like 3 points of infection, not 1.  That way Defense is taken into account, but most common early-game creatures (thinking FFQ, Atog, Fallen Druid) die in 2-3 turns instead of 3-7.


Quote
4 - New cards that inflict damage to any creature on the board (friendly side as well) will soon be available.
This will be good.  :)
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icybraker

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13442#msg13442
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2009, 10:30:20 pm »
I love any card that opens up many great new strategies for decks, like Otyugh, FFQ and Fallen Druids. Aflatoxin is just another one of these great cards. It seemed severely overpowered before, but after the nerfing it now seems like a very interesting card that I will use in my deck. Keep up the great work, Zanz.

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13456#msg13456
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2009, 11:24:06 pm »
I still think Aflatoxin is underpowered as of now. One poison simply kills too slowly for a 9-cost card. It'll be better if it inflicts 2 or 3 poison, because it's supposed to kill creatures quicker.
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bobcamel

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13462#msg13462
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2009, 12:06:08 am »
I agree, it should 3 poison.

+1

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13473#msg13473
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2009, 12:59:22 am »
I agree with the aforementioned suggestions. At 9 quanta, it should either kill the creature, replacing it with a Malignant Cell, or it should infect for 2-3.

Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13474#msg13474
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2009, 01:01:32 am »
I agree with the aforementioned suggestions. At 9 quanta, it should either kill the creature, replacing it with a Malignant Cell, or it should infect for 2-3.
With infection and not outright killing it then malig cell should reproduct every turn

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13519#msg13519
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2009, 07:54:33 am »
That's why you infect, then kill it somehow. The card doesn't say the poison has to kill it, just that it has to die.

bobcamel

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13560#msg13560
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2009, 04:07:07 pm »
Death, ironically, doesn't have any interesting reliable methods of killing. Well, Parasites are Darkness/Death, but they die easily and also infec.

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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13664#msg13664
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2009, 03:31:59 am »
Have Zanzarino seen this? I strongly request that Aflatoxin is changed to 2 or 3 poison. I will not stop ranting until it is changed.
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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13668#msg13668
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2009, 04:10:06 am »
It has been.  It deals 2 poison now.
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Re: New Card: Carcinogen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1404.msg13671#msg13671
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2009, 04:17:27 am »
Well... It does, but on the card it doesn't say...

BTW, I've just discovered this: in the trainer, if you click "MOAR PWER" to 100, you start with 100 of all quanta!
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