Deathstalker | Deathstalker

[jmdt]

Ewww random. Either 2 or 3 or alternate or whatever, but lets not introduce luck factor where we dont need it.

3 would definately make me take a glance at this card.  I made a table of scorpions at both 2 and 3 counters and spider with 8 attack assuming Eclipse is active.  Basic result is that it will take 5 turns for the 3 counter scorpion to equal the damage of spider, and and it will take 7 turns for the 3 counter scorpion to equal the damage of spider.

turn	spider 8	scorpion 2	scorpion 3
1	8	2	2
2	16	6	7
3	24	12	15
4	32	20	26
5	40	30	40
6	48	42	57
7	56	56	77
8	64	72	100
9	72	90	126
10	80	110	155

I also ran some calculations assuming a 6 attack spider and a 1 attack, 2 counter scorpion.

turn	spider	scorpion
1	6	1
2	12	4
3	18	9
4	24	16
5	30	25
6	36	36
7	42	49
8	48	64
9	54	81
10	60	100

Now comparing the the 6 attack spider, and 1 attack scorpion with fractal.  I take the damage assuming 8 of either are placed.  This shows that with a fractal charge, that spiders are a whole turn faster.  Since it ony takes 4 more damage to raise spider from 3 to 2 turns, its likely that playing a spider earlier would make a two turn difference between fratcl spider and fractal scorpion in the best case.

turn	spider	scorpion
1	48	8
2	96	32
3	144	72
4	192	128
5	240	200

So yeah I think death stalker should be a 1 attack creature and it and fractal most definately will NOT be OP.

[dragonhuman]

you need to take into account that shields cannot block the poison damage if the damage is already there

[jmdt]

you need to take into account that shields cannot block the poison damage if the damage is already there

by the same token, a 1 or 2 defense shield would completly negate the deathstalkers poison effects.

[Malduk]

you need to take into account that shields cannot block the poison damage if the damage is already there

by the same token, a 1 or 2 defense shield would completly negate the deathstalkers poison effects.

Poison damage is really hard to counter, that is why all cards that apply it are doing it slow-ish. Deadly Venom is a card + 2 for 3 poison. Creatures are weak or expensive, and Arsenic does it 1 per turn.
Say you Fractal and play 6 Deathstalkers. Thats 12 poison counters in one turn. You can CC them, but loads of poison is still there. Until next Fractal.
Fractaling Spiders would do loads of damage, but would be cleared off the board, put into stasis, eaten or whatever. You have many different ways to STOP further damage and maybe heal yourself until the next fractal bomb. You cant do that with poison as only Purify will stop its damage. That is why simple comparisson of pure damage dealt is not the best measure.

[Essence]

Malduk, Fractal is slow.  Almost any of my decks will laugh at a 1-Atk Fractal Deathstalker deck because I can get out the most expensive shield in the game before you can cast Fractal alone, much less Fractal and a Deathstalker.

Once you can get that done, who cares about CC?

[Malduk]

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?
What I'm trying to say is that difference between fractaling something like Frogs or Spiders have much more counters than fractaling something that makes a poison bomb on you.
Fractaled Deathstalkers would be even slower than say Frogtal, but if you can stall your opponent enough, you have a sure win, while your opponent might get rid of Frogs or whatever if you come accross a shield and/or mass CC.

[jmdt]

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?
What I'm trying to say is that difference between fractaling something like Frogs or Spiders have much more counters than fractaling something that makes a poison bomb on you.
Fractaled Deathstalkers would be even slower than say Frogtal, but if you can stall your opponent enough, you have a sure win, while your opponent might get rid of Frogs or whatever if you come accross a shield and/or mass CC.

In this game, speed is everything.  If the only reason this card is not one attack is fractal, and we have determined that this + fractal is not that big of a deal, then why not give this card 1 attack.

If this card is released as is, it will go straight from a development thread to the needs a buff thread.  As is this card is very weak, not warranting a slot over mummy or spider in my death deck.  Giving it one attack will make it less powerful than giving it a 3 poison counter and make it usable out of the box without being OP.  There are so many ways to stop a 1/3 creature, I don't see why its a big deal.  If it is make it 1/2 instead so more things can kill it.  2 poison counters is strong, but not gamebreaking like some other effects. 

[Essence]

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?

Yup.  I don't care if YOU stall ME.  All I care about is that I can get a shield out that stops YOU cold long before Fractal can kick in and do a damn thing.

After your offense has been rendered completely ineffective, you can stall me all you want, I could care less.

[jmizzle7]

What if both Deathstalker and Dune Scorpion had their unupped stats, but the upped versions had 1 attack? That would be a very worthwhile upgrade, and would make them VERY playable.

[jmdt]

What if both Deathstalker and Dune Scorpion had their unupped stats, but the upped versions had 1 attack? That would be a very worthwhile upgrade, and would make them VERY playable.

That would be a great idea.  I would love to see them both with 1 attack upped in the trainer to give them a test.  I don't think either are worth playing at 0 attack personally since you have to use all your valuable deck space buffing then and have to leave out other useful cards.  Deathstalker with 1 attack with would be solid card.  Dune Scorpion with 1 attack should be fine as well, but would be a situationally powerful card.  It would need testing, but that discussion if for another thread

[Essence]

What if both Deathstalker and Dune Scorpion had their unupped stats, but the upped versions had 1 attack? That would be a very worthwhile upgrade, and would make them VERY playable.

This.

[twinsbuster]

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?

Yup.  I don't care if YOU stall ME.  All I care about is that I can get a shield out that stops YOU cold long before Fractal can kick in and do a damn thing.

After your offense has been rendered completely ineffective, you can stall me all you want, I could care less.

How about if they don't use fractal but momentum on the Deathstalker then stall you?