Deathstalker | Deathstalker

[MrBlonde]

I made a FG fractal deck with the deathstalker for the trials and i find that it really isn't worth it. If you use fractal obviously you need to use eclipse. The deck i used is below and this was my 1st version so i'm sure it can be improved but what i found is that basically recluse works better in almost every instance. Like Essence stated getting a shield out to block the 2 dmg is pretty easy and if you use Eclipse well one deflag, butterfly effect, or pulvy ends that.

Its just really hard to make deathstalker viable.

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[Innominate]

What if both Deathstalker and Dune Scorpion had their unupped stats, but the upped versions had 1 attack? That would be a very worthwhile upgrade, and would make them VERY playable.

This.

I agree with the Deathstalker, but not the Dune Scorpion. If we're going to have a mechanic in the game that forces the player to discard a random card, it should be damned difficult to get out. If all it takes is one card and 3 time quanta to destroy a card in your hand then we've completely ruined stall decks.

[Malduk]

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?
What I'm trying to say is that difference between fractaling something like Frogs or Spiders have much more counters than fractaling something that makes a poison bomb on you.
Fractaled Deathstalkers would be even slower than say Frogtal, but if you can stall your opponent enough, you have a sure win, while your opponent might get rid of Frogs or whatever if you come accross a shield and/or mass CC.

In this game, speed is everything.  If the only reason this card is not one attack is fractal, and we have determined that this + fractal is not that big of a deal, then why not give this card 1 attack.

If this card is released as is, it will go straight from a development thread to the needs a buff thread.  As is this card is very weak, not warranting a slot over mummy or spider in my death deck.  Giving it one attack will make it less powerful than giving it a 3 poison counter and make it usable out of the box without being OP.  There are so many ways to stop a 1/3 creature, I don't see why its a big deal.  If it is make it 1/2 instead so more things can kill it.  2 poison counters is strong, but not gamebreaking like some other effects. 

No, speed is not everything. Simply going by "speed is everything" means that only rush cards can be overpowered. That is not true.
I stated a while ago that this card is weak and that it needs a buff.  I agree, 2 poison is not gamebreaking. 3 poison would not be gamebreaking in my opinion. But fractaling shitload of poison is over the top. Because your ONLY counter after fractal is Purify.
While we're at it, lets buff Poison (spell card), as it takes card and 2 quanta for "only" 3 damage.

So what if fractal is slow? Every fractal deck packs stalling cards. Your argument is slow thus weak?

Yup.  I don't care if YOU stall ME.  All I care about is that I can get a shield out that stops YOU cold long before Fractal can kick in and do a damn thing.

After your offense has been rendered completely ineffective, you can stall me all you want, I could care less.

Essence, your argument is "I have a deck that is a true counter to fractal scorpios, and if I get my counter up in time, I will win". Well good for you, but overall in the game, there are less counters to fractaled scorpions than to fractaled something else. The only counters here are some shields if you draw them in time + Purify. Against fractaled physical damage, I can draw my shield at 1 HP and win.

[Essence]

Against fractaled physical damage, I can draw my shield at 1 HP and win.

I don't know what shield you're drawing..oh, wait yes I do -- it's gotta be Hope, because every other shield will let at least 1 damage through if you're fighting any kind of sane deck. 

The fact is, there are shields 2/3 of the elements that will stop Fractal Scorpions in their tracks -- 1/2 if you discount Wings and Phase Shield.  That's a hell of a lot of ways to stop the damage you're so scared of. 

[Malduk]

That's a hell of a lot of ways to stop the damage you're so scared of.

Shields will only prevent aditional damage, wont stop existing poison. If you have no perma control. ONLY Purify stops damage "I'm so scared of".
Reapeating what I already wrote is a bit pointless. We'll see how powerful those are if they ever go live with attack stat.

[jmdt]

No, speed is not everything. Simply going by "speed is everything" means that only rush cards can be overpowered. That is not true.
I stated a while ago that this card is weak and that it needs a buff.  I agree, 2 poison is not gamebreaking. 3 poison would not be gamebreaking in my opinion. But fractaling shitload of poison is over the top. Because your ONLY counter after fractal is Purify.
While we're at it, lets buff Poison (spell card), as it takes card and 2 quanta for "only" 3 damage.

Yes speed is everything in this game.  With a rush deck battle, the fastest deck will win 8-9 times out of 10.  However, rush decks aren't the only decks were speed is important.  If a stall deck can't get setup before a rush deck deals 100 damage then its worthless.  Stall decks must set up faster than a rush deck if it is going to be effective.  Speed is important to every deck no matter what type it is.

This card closest in game to this is pufferfish.  Noone ever used fractal pufferfish because it has (had) one glaring weakness.  Shields shut the deck down completely.  This card with one attack will face the same problem if a shield comes out before the fractal spam.   This card is much less powerful than you think it is.

[coinich]

Slight correction; Fractal Pufferfish also suffered from high costs.  5 per is nothing to sneeze at.

[Malduk]

jmdt, I was talking about speed of dealing damage or in other words, turns to kill; not the speed of playing your cards down. Poison indeed is really slow at dealing damage.
Talking about Fractal, it is slower than rush decks to get going, but it really isnt THAT slow. It is painfully obvious that Deathstalkers wont be the rush cards anyway, no matter how they enter the game.

As for Puffers, Coinich already said: their cost is a big turnoff when considering Fractal target. It means you will not only have to wait for quanta, but for quanta to fill up too. Chargers have the same issue, but those bypass shields, so it is not such a huge deal if your opponent establishes his defence before you manage to play your multiplied Chargers down.
Comparing them to Puffers, these boys double the poison for almost half the cost, so... yeah.

What I dont understand in this whole discussion is, why is everyone neglecting acumulated poison that fractaled scorpions can deliver in one turn? If I counted right, there are 9 shields in the game that will be a great counter to this card, 2 of them are turn based, and some of them are rarely, if ever seen in decks.
So, you HAVE to have one of those, and actually draw them in time (how many permanent shields is average deck packing?), and have them survive possible perma control.
I dont know, maybe I really am overestimating Poison, but so is Zanz then. Every single poison dealing card is either weak, or expensive, or both, compared to physical/spell damage dealers.

Anyway, I'm a huge fan of poison damage and cant wait for this card to be implemented in whatever form. If it gets attack stat off the bat, I'm sure Poison fan club will receive lots of new members.

[Essence]

What I dont understand in this whole discussion is, why is everyone neglecting acumulated poison that fractaled scorpions can deliver in one turn?

Because a Skull Shield means that poison never gets delivered in the first place.  Which means that no one cares.  It really is that simple.   You're fussing about Fractal Deathstalkers like they actually get to hit you -- but they don't.

[Malduk]

They wont hit you? Because you'll have, draw and play your shield in time always, and because or will never get perma control cards, and because rainbows with fractal are weak?
Well, in that case, Deathstalkers suck even with 1 attack stat. Maybe they should get even stronger buff. I'm crossing fingers they do.

[Essence]

You're being deliberately melodramatic to make a skewed point.  Deathstalkers on their own, with 1 attack, can some out before a shield in most games, and they'll deal 4-8 poison before they're stopped.  That's totally reasonable and easily dealt with -- heal over it or kill them first. 

Deathstalkers with Fractal, which is what you've gotten your panties in a knot about, are slow, and massively weak to shields of any kind.  If you don't have a shield, they deal massive poison damage -- which really, given the speed and fragility, is also totally reasonable.  If you're not rushing fast enough AND you don't have a decent defense at the same time, you DESERVE to get your ass handed to you by a bunch of bugs.

[jmdt]

If you're not rushing fast enough AND you don't have a decent defense at the same time, you DESERVE to get your ass handed to you by a bunch of bugs.

Post of the day.