War Prep

[Jen-i]

Hey guys,

I'm a little nervous about the lack of real prep we're taking this war - I think there is probably some value in testing some of the various decks we're looking at to see which versions we want in our vault.

I've started a ttw test for the 2 Voodoo Rage Decks in the TypeWithMe Sheet - the idea is that they are rushy decks and we need a speed comparison to see which we want to play. For counter decks we'll need to test them in trainer against the deck they are supposed to counter. I'd like us to make better use of this prep time before war.

TorB - I would like more direction from you - I don't want to coordinate things this war - since losing trials I've taken on other things and have less time - but tell me what to do and I'm happy to throw me energy, time and skill in any direction you want.  Thanks for your bid and I look forward to working with you.

Let's get things rolling.

On other notes - I assume we need to start discussing member roles - (TorB - if you've already made selections or been talking to people - I'm sorry for overstepping my bounds) - I'll start by saying I'm not particularly interested in being Lt. this time around - if that's what TorB or the team desires I have no problem with it - but I'm far more excited about being led than leading this time. As one of the major forces behind Vault 2.0 it makes sense that I take the strategist role - but if someone else wants that I have no problem being a soldier (I'd be quite happy with it actually).

[TheonlyrealBeef]

WARNING: wall of text decks inbound.

I think Wizardcat would be best for Lieutenant, unless someone disagrees
Usually when I'm online (for ~10 hours) the typewithme is rather abandoned, but it already has war banner, war song and just needs a war speech which I will simply conjure up if no one else has a brilliant idea within... nevermind.

For the vault I already had 7 decks in mind:

Vader

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5ld 5ld 5ld 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5up 5up 5ur 5ur 5ur 5ur 5v1 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pq

Devtal

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uo 5uq 5uq 5ur 5ut 5ut 5ut 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 622 622 622 622 8pu

Grabow

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 590 5ia 5on 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uo 5up 5up 5uu 606 606 606 606 61q 7tb 7tf 7tf 8pm

GotP Nightmare

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5rg 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5t2 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 5v1 5v1 5v1 5v1 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 7q4 7q4 7tb 8ps

Poison Wall

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52p 52p 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 52r 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 8pk

Voodolleration

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

55q 55q 55t 55t 562 562 562 562 562 562 5uu 5uu 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 8pl

EQ Devs

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

593 593 593 593 593 593 596 596 596 596 5ul 5ul 5ul 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 7tb 7tf 7tf 8pm

[/list]Most already being tried and true, but I have not thoroughly tested Poison Wall's full capabilities (can it beat Discord/Immo decks like it should?). Still need more decks too, especially specialized in beating Immolation/Discord decks (already on it).

I believe Jen-i and YawnChainHow have already made a fine start with gathering information on opposing teams, which you may continue doing so for the rest of the war under the titles of Soldier

This leaves the Strategist title for whomever wants to bother with Google Docs stuff to make sure salvage and conversion and blah blah is done right (may end up doing it myself, but don't count on it). And there's this Duel Organizer title... yeah... anyone interested?

Some decks aren't properly tweaked or don't contain the upgrades it can get, but that's not really relevant, vault should have some spare cards for tweaking anyway and upgrades don't really change the decks (I know what I'd want upgraded :P)

I usually have an entire backup plan in my head somewhere like right now, but I'm hoping for as much initiative as possible so everyone does exactly what they want to If that hope is false just lemme know and I can think of an entire list of chores and ask each of you randomly :P

Here's a start for volunteers:

Build a deck that can counter both this deck:

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vq 4vq 4vq 4vq 4vq 50u 50u 52q 590 5c1 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5og 77g 77g 77g 8pm

and this deck:

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vd 4vd 4vd 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vf 4vi 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 8pj

and make sure it wins over 75% of at least 10 matches against each and conforms to the Darkness war rules.Think up a war speech.Build a deck that counters most Bone Wall stalls, like this one:

Code: [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52r 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 71b 71b 7do and this one:

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52r 52r 52r 52t 542 542 542 542 542 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 713 713 713 8po

and this one:

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61r 61r 61r 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 8pk

and make sure it wins over 75% of at least 10 matches against each and conforms to the Darkness war rules.[/list]

[Onizuka]

Against entropy:

by Onizuka

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52r 52r 52r 52r 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5us 5us 5us 5us 5us 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 71b 7tb 7tb 8pk

Although I'd like to retest against a person, this went 9-1 against immocat in trainer.
It also went 14-6 against monoentropy.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Against entropy:

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52r 52r 52r 52r 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5us 5us 5us 5us 5us 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 71b 7tb 7tb 8pk

Although I'd like to retest against a person, this went 9-1 against immocat in trainer.
It also went 14-6 against monoentropy.

A deck that stands a good chance against both goes a long way
I think it might even be a good idea to take it along with the other Parasite + Bone Wall deck since I expect to get lots of rushes.

On a more general note, feel free to test any ideas on me :P

[Jen-i]

Here's (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32014.msg432891#msg432891) a couple potential speeches

Against Bone Wall Stall Decks:

Having played around and tested these decks - this one of the three is not truly a stall deck - to counter it we're looking for something a little different that what I propose. In my 5 games test I won 1 game and lost the other 4 horridly - it wasn't luck its just a bad match for my deck.

by Jen-i

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52r 52r 52r 52t 542 542 542 542 542 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 713 713 713 8po

This Deck Should take most domination decks and send their owners home crying.

by Jen-i

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 606 606 606 606 77j 77j 77j 8pm

I'm pretty sure card totals can still be tweaked one direction or another - but this should be a good basis - it won 80% against both BoneBolt and the Firestall Version and 3 of the loses were within 1 turn - the 4th was a 1 pend vs 6 pillar draw.

Something running silence is another possible counter to this and many stall type decks - but I haven't spent much time playing around with that yet.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Here's (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32014.msg432891#msg432891) a couple potential speeches

Against Bone Wall Stall Decks:

Having played around and tested these decks - this one of the three is not truly a stall deck - to counter it we're looking for something a little different that what I propose. In my 5 games test I won 1 game and lost the other 4 horridly - it wasn't luck its just a bad match for my deck.

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52r 52r 52r 52t 542 542 542 542 542 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 713 713 713 8po

This Deck Should take most domination decks and send their owners home crying.

by TheonlyrealBeef

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 606 606 606 606 77j 77j 77j 8pm

I'm pretty sure card totals can still be tweaked one direction or another - but this should be a good basis - it won 80% against both BoneBolt and the Firestall Version and 3 of the loses were within 1 turn - the 4th was a 1 pend vs 6 pillar draw.

Something running silence is another possible counter to this and many stall type decks - but I haven't spent much time playing around with that yet.

Yeah, that Death deck is evil, but definitely one I'd use again if I were them so it's useful to know what works against it, my guess would be one of our Bone Wall stalls (as though it were a classic control rush, time to see who gets the highest Bone Wall counter >_<)?

EQ Devs mod sounds great, no need to pack an entire new deck, just to have keep those cards in the vault just in case (or use it from the spare EQ Devs parts :P).

[Onizuka]

Yeah I had tried the BW challenge, but that darn death control rush kept setting up too fast.

I had had a similar deck, but jen's looks much better.

[Jen-i]

TorB - you asked me to test this deck against both and

by Jen-i

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5op 5op 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5up 5up 5ut 5ut 5ut 5uv 5uv 5uv 5uv 606 606 606 606 606 606 7ta 7ta 7tb 8pr

Here are my findings:

The deck counters any creature based attack that earth can mount (80% wins) - including most dragon decks (they are slow to get damage on the table - but there is perhaps more effeciency they can squeeze out of their decks - so take this claim with a grain of salt).The deck fails badly against discord - discord comes out far too quickly for wings to counter itSky Blitz is a nearly useless card - its just too slow - the games where I did use it, it just made me win sooner than I would have otherwiseAgainst Vampire Dagger is a lovely card - I wished I had in it hand constantly - would have spend up most games and won one of the losers if I had drawn it earlier

On an only weakly related note - MatrimKK loves to use BE in his decks - most of his decks from BL and iirc all of his decks from trials use it - and use it to good effect. Permanents are certainly at risk against his decks. Here is a variation on something we built together during trials that is very dangerous.

by Jen-i

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vo 4vo 5oi 5oi 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 6u5 77j 77j 8pt

TorB thanks for continuing to assign tasks - I find it easier to analyze specifics then the whole meta right now - between this wretched cold and work I don't have a lot of mental space for global thinking - but repetitive or simple tasks are easy.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Any suggestions for air cards to replace Sky Blitz with? Otherwise -2 pends, -2 Sky blitz, +2 Pillars +2 Gargoyles comes to mind.
The Entropy denial deck seriously lacks damage, Grabows could probably slice through it like a hot knife through butter, just need to time the novas right, though Discord actually helps regaining lost that might be needed for Graboids to evolve.

As for other tasks I could think of:

Vader versus Death decks of all kinds and forms. I'm rather spectical about it working against Death, but timing the cards well might do wonders. More testing is needed before even considering actually using it.Vader versus Aether decks of all kinds and forms. PU can be devastating if the Dagger is flown and blessed without KO-ing your opponent the same turn.Wings against all sorts of Water decks, I have a good feeling about Wings vs Water.

Or more specifically, decks like YCH is listing here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31847.0.html). Maybe someone's willing to help YCH with that, too

[Aves]

Build a deck that counters most Bone Wall stalls, like this one:

by Aves

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52r 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 71b 71b 7do 8pk

and this one:

by Aves

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52r 52r 52r 52t 542 542 542 542 542 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 713 713 713 8po

and this one:

by Aves

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61q 61r 61r 61r 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 8pk

and make sure it wins over 75% of at least 10 matches against each and conforms to the Darkness war rules.[/list]

Just took the first deck and replaced it with darkness. Same principles, and should be better than fire because of the healing. Presenting... the DARKNESS BoneWall Stall!

by Aves

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52r 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5ur 5us 5us 5us 5us 5us 5us 606 606 606 606 606 606 71b 71b 8pk

Against deck 1: 7-3. This deck has 4 dead cards.
It looks like it's a race between who gets the poison first- but in the end the Drain Life's 4-3 ratio with Fire Lance wins the day assuming that draws will average out.

Against deck 2: 11-0. This deck has 8 dead cards, 11 if you count the deflags.
Games are/seem very close. Conveniently placed bone walls, early DL's as CC, Late DL's as healing (Use 2 on a dragon if its early). Seeing the AI play 6 pillars/pends and begin to rush is terrifying, but Drain Life is MVP here. You'll have to get lucky with the early DLs and mid-game Bone walls, though.

Against deck 3: 1-3 This deck has 6 dead cards.
Arsenic is murder if you don't get an early bone wall. Lightning can make you misjudge when to heal.
Will post more stats if/when I get them.

[Jen-i]

I've been playing around with this version of VaderSader - it has me nervous - its vulnerable to both Hard CC are repetitive soft CC, prone to weak draws, both for quanta and for the combo - and it seems slow.

The only elements I can see it being useful against are  and even then it depends on the deck.

Essentially this is the same deck - but it feels substantially faster in the few plays I've run - I'm sure there are improvements to be made - cloak would add to the protection of the deck - silence is another (although perhaps poorer) option - I think its probably worth testing this against our Grabbow Deck for speed - I have a suspicion that they are pretty close and this has the added advantage of healing.

by Jen-i

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5lf 5ll 5ll 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ur 5ur 5ur 5ur 5ur 5ur 5v1 5v1 606 606 606 606 606 606 6u2 6u2 7ta 8pq

[Onizuka]

Random 25 games for the above deck against AI3.

9
7 (EM)
9 (EM)
11
11
16
9
Loss  (Mutation+adrenademon)
8 (EM)
9 (EM)
13
13
11
7
14
Loss (Mutation+Demons)
Loss (Firefly)
11
9 (EM)
Loss (Dims)
11 (EM)
Loss (Mutation)
11 (EM)
21 (EM)
Loss (Rednymph)