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Offline ddevans96Topic starter

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Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1032256#msg1032256
« on: January 15, 2013, 06:39:57 am »
--wip--

Decks in testing sheet:
Mono
Ghostmare
Vader Sader
Devtal
Entropy Duo
Deathstalkers
Liquigons
CC Splash Duo
Siphonary
Grabbow
Devquake

Other potential decks:
Adrenavamps
Accel Voodoos
Toadmare
Trapbow
Raging Voodoos

As I posted in the welcome topic, we have 306 cards. That gives us 8 decks of 30 and 66 extra cards to work with. These extra cards can be used for five general things:
- Make decks bigger than 30 cards.
- Mod decks for a specific matchup.
- Have backup cards to repair decks.
- Create a ninth deck for use.
- Take low and medium-cost splashes.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:20:41 am by ddevans96 »
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Offline Absol

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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1032259#msg1032259
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 06:55:00 am »
My pick:
Mono
Ghostmare
Devtal
Grabbow
EQ/Dev
PU Dragon?
Vader
Siphonary

Deathstalkers are somewhat slow, not sure about ento/dark, also what deck is CC splash?
Raging dolls might be considered too, along with accelvoodoo. This can be combined, and use 6 cards for Ragepot maybe?

As for the leftover cards, i suggest splash while repairing decks. This requires the deck skeleton highly modifiable.
(also, this setup might benefit Strategist too)
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Offline ddevans96Topic starter

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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1032261#msg1032261
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 07:02:00 am »
CC splash is just a mono with RT, lightning, or BB off the mark.
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1032270#msg1032270
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 07:22:12 am »
Then CC splash could be combined with Monodark, like Ragepot Doll combined with Accel. Modded according to situation.
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033105#msg1033105
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2013, 10:40:02 pm »
So we can probably start with this:

[Standard Mono]: 30
Voodoo Doll: 12

Lightning: 5-6
Reverse Time: 5-6
Basilisk Blood: 5-6
Rage Pot: 5-6
Accel: 5-6

And then whatever other support we have for Accel Voodoo and Raging Voodoo. This gives us a potential mono, 4 CC splashes, and 2 voodoo decks in 67-72 cards, and with added support, almost certainly less than 90. That's 7 decks in the card space of 3, which definitely seems efficent.

Next thing we should look at is a Grabbow, which we can run either standard, as a Trapbow, or both with a Strategist.
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033144#msg1033144
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 12:29:28 am »
My picks:
Ghostmare
Vader
Devtal
Siphonary
Devquake
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033167#msg1033167
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 02:00:21 am »
As dd explained in the opening post, we should be basically picking 8 decks from the doc, and 66 cards to support them. Note that:

a) Siphonary is a deck larger than 30 cards, therefore requiring ~11 "support" cards

b) CC splash can switch the "CC" part between Lightnings, BBs, and RTs. Therefore, this deck requires ~10 support cards.

c) Like dd explained above, we can be very flexible with Voodoo Dolls. Given that we're already taking a mono, we can add 12 Voodoo Dolls, 5 Rage Pots, 5 Acceleration, and some deck-specific support cards to add ~30 total support cards for an extra 2 decks.

d) Trap decks require ~3 voodoo dolls, ~3 gravity pulls, and ~5 BBs. If we want to make this possible for Strategist, we have to get a little creative with our normal grabbow (it should have some GPs and BBs in it already so that we can switch it around). Of course, we can also add some support cards to make a "better" grabbow.

For example, our Strategist deck could be something like

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 55t 55t 590 590 590 590 595 595 595 595 595 5c1 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5up 5us 5us 5uv 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v1 61q 7tb 7tf 7tf 8pm


Which can be modded into

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 55t 55t 590 590 590 595 595 595 595 595 5c1 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uv 5v0 5v0 5v0 61q 7tb 7tf 7tf 8pm


or

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 55t 590 590 590 590 595 595 5c1 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5up 5us 5us 5uv 5v0 5v1 61q 7tb 7tf 7tf 8pm


in the same match (this isn't really the most effective way to do it, but for illustrative purposes it'll do fine).

e) Let's say, for example that we took the following 8 decks (you can find the tentative codes on the testing sheet):
Mono-Darkness
Ghostmare
Vader Sader
Devtal
Ent Duo
CC splash
Siphonary
Grabbow

This would be a total of 30*8+11 (from Siphonary)+10 (from CC splash, as we can switch out the CC with BB/RT/Lightnings)+1 (from Ghostmare)=262 cards. This leaves 44 cards.

These 44 cards would include something like:
12 Voodoo Dolls
5 Rage Potions (For Raging dolls)
5 Accelerations (For Acceleravoodoo)
3 Gravity Pulls (This and the BBs for trap-type decks)
4 BBs [Note the 9 off-element restriction]

This would still leave us 15 cards. With these 15 cards we could
* Additionally support decks like Raging Dolls or Acceleravoodoo (e.g. Adding momentums)
* Add in a deck that's partially completed like DevEQ
* Add in some general support cards for a bit of additional flexibility (particularly in the case of the Grabbow)
etc.

f) For now, we should start at least with the decks that dd said, which should take up 52 cards (with perhaps a few additional support cards - note that I'm counting the CC cards seperately as to not get confused). We should definitely have Siphonary, as we need a deck capable of stalling reasonably well, which is another 41 cards (93 total). The usual suspects, like Ghostmare (31 cards, 124 total), Devtal (30 cards, 154 total), and a Grabbow (30 cards, 184 total) should also probably be in the vault. This leaves possible decks:
Vader Sader
Entropy Duo
Deathstalkers
PUgons
DevEQ
CC splash

Note that all of them are 30 cards, with the exception of CC splash which is effectively 38 (if we take 5 copies each of Lightnings and BBs, and 3 RTs [again, recall the 9 off-element restriction] to ensure maximum flexibility). Recall that we have 306 cards, leaving 122 for these decks. This means that we could
* Take 4 of the above decks, either not counting CC splash or modding it a bit to get it just under the limit
* Take 3 of the above decks, using the rest of the cards (either 22 or 32, depending on whether or not we're fully bringing CC splash) to do things like add in trap cards and other flexible options like low-cost splashes
* Use whatever remaining cards there are to make larger decks
etc.


tl;dr:
Basically, we pretty much agree on what to do with 184 of our 306 cards. We need well-reasoned opinions on what to do with the remaining 122. This means that
From this point forward, we should be focusing our testing on Vader Sader, Entropy Duo, Deathstalkers, PUgons, DevEQ, and CC splash.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:14:12 am by bogtro »
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033215#msg1033215
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 04:00:33 am »
Better to take 3 leave rest to repair decks.
We already have enough decks, next step is to keep it or repair it as needed.
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Offline ddevans96Topic starter

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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033260#msg1033260
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 07:26:56 am »
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All duels must have a legal deck, not just the full deck. So this wouldn't work :(

I don't see any way we can build a decent trapbow. We'd have to drop cards and make the whole deck inconsistent. I'd be comfortable with scrapping it and just using a straight grabbow.

Right now, I have the mono, ghostmare, devtal, and siphonary in the vault, as well as lightning, BB, and rewind splashes, voodoo dolls with rage pots and accels, and an extra 10 pends and 10 pillars (we'll likely need more) to support the voodoo decks. Of course this is still very tentative, but it's a solid base to work from.

Also, we should consider more decks than just the ones on the testing sheet, otherwise we're only left with decks used last war, which can make us more predictable.
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1033968#msg1033968
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 06:34:02 pm »
What's going on with this, should we be discussing something or what?
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1034204#msg1034204
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 07:02:34 pm »
War teams should always be discussing something, but I think we'll have a solid vault regardless.

The grabbow is in. I didn't put it before since the trapbow mod idea was still up in the air, but since we haven't really talked about that either I just added the grabbow.

Since sko and bogtro have already done some testing on them (I'd have done some, but I've been sick and haven't had as much free time because I've been resting) I think we should pick one or two out of Vader Sader, Entropy duo, and Devquake, and then use the rest of the vault slots for Gravy (gravy pulls) and Fire (CC, deflags) support for the Voodoo decks and more Pillars and Pends.
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Re: Vaultbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46013.msg1034229#msg1034229
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 07:58:16 pm »
Out of the three I'd chose entropy duo and devquake. Vaders didn't seem to do very well in testing.
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