Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Cygnia => Topic started by: eaglgenes101 on January 13, 2012, 03:25:36 am

Title: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 13, 2012, 03:25:36 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ExV50.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/0JpS3.png)
NAME:
Sponge
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
1 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0 | 3
TEXT:
Gains +0|+2 per turn, +0|+4 when submerged.
Extract: Sacrifice card to gain :water  equal to HP.
NAME:
Sponge
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
0
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0 | 4
TEXT:
Gains +0|+2 per turn, +0|+5 when submerged.
Extract: Sacrifice card to gain :water equal to HP.
ART:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edbierman/2582398807/ - CC-BY is okay, right?
IDEA:
eaglgenes101
NOTES:
My first card idea, how does it look?
SERIES:
n/a
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: ndclub on January 13, 2012, 03:58:00 am
Have to admit...Its not often that card ideas stick out to me with how unique they are or how the game would benefit from them being there but I really really like this card. Combined with gravity pull its interesting, as a delayed burst of quantum its interesting, with shard of patience its interesting. I will sleep on it and see other responses as to whether or not I continue to support the idea. However it does feel sort of strange that upgraded has less hp, I see why but it's just strange.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Xamuel on January 13, 2012, 04:17:18 am
Creative, has lots of interesting synergies (overdrive, gravity pull, flood...)

One "exploit" is that this could be paired up with basilisk's blood to transform 2 :earth into 25 :water, this would take 6 turns though (does the sponge continue picking up HP naturally while it's delayed?).  It could pair with plate armor to turn 1 :earth into 7 :water (3 plate armor HP + 2 initial HP + 3 HP for the turn needed to get rid of summoning sickness), or with heavy armor to turn 1 :earth into 10 :water.  Water -- the new "immo" rush?   :)) :))

Why is sponge free?  Even without basilisk's blood or plate armor, this thing generates quanta 2 or 3 times faster than a pillar!  Of course, you have to sacrifice it to get that quanta, but still...

Finally, the upped version shouldn't have the HP+1 while also having the numbers themselves changed.  No point making it overly complicated, and the upped version is already much more powerful than unupped even without the HP+1 part.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 13, 2012, 04:42:15 am
Changed the card to make upgraded stats 0|3 and the gain equal to HP, not HP + 1.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: furballdn on January 13, 2012, 04:47:54 am
Don't think the flooding mechanism of it will ever be used since it requires flooding and at least 5 creatures on your side of the field. Heavy armor with this would be quite lulzy.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 13, 2012, 04:49:07 am
Creative, has lots of interesting synergies (overdrive, gravity pull, flood...)

One "exploit" is that this could be paired up with basilisk's blood to transform 2 :earth into 25 :water , this would take 6 turns though (does the sponge continue picking up HP naturally while it's delayed?).
6 turns is enough for a rush deck to overwhelm you if you're not careful. I don't think it should continue picking up HP while it's delayed but I see no particular mechanic to make it that way?

Quote
It could pair with plate armor to turn 1 :earth into 7 :water (3 plate armor HP + 2 initial HP + 3 HP for the turn needed to get rid of summoning sickness),
No objection.

Quote
or with heavy armor to turn 1 :earth into 10 :water .  Water -- the new "immo" rush?   :)) :))
In point of fact, immolation's faster than this thing is. Also, I'm counting on misclicks to partially balance this thing's effectiveness (evil grin)*.

Quote
Why is sponge free?  Even without basilisk's blood or plate armor, this thing generates quanta 2 or 3 times faster than a pillar!  Of course, you have to sacrifice it to get that quanta, but still...
It does generate quanta faster, but it's also vulnerable to creature control, which seems to be more common than permanent control. Lobotomized you can no longer get the quanta out - this thing could be stopped cold in its tracks by a Mind Flayer if the player isn't careful.

That said, I'll consider adding a cost of 1 or 2 of it - this thing should be played in early game to maximize the number of turns it can grow, so it shouldn't be too expensive.

Quote
Finally, the upped version shouldn't have the HP+1 while also having the numbers themselves changed.  No point making it overly complicated, and the upped version is already much more powerful than unupped even without the HP+1 part.
That's done.

Don't think the flooding mechanism of it will ever be used since it requires flooding and at least 5 creatures on your side of the field. Heavy armor with this would be quite lulzy.
In all honesty, most of the reason it's there is because of the flavor of the thing, and if it only happens in 1% of games so what?

* Joke.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: thanata on January 13, 2012, 05:25:44 am
I like the idea; it gives Water a new "cultivation" kind of quanta boost/generator - which is something Air, Earth, and Fire all have. I don't think Water should be left out of the classic elements club  :P

About its synergies with Flooding; yes, it would require 5 other creatures to obtain that perk, but when it does, health accumulation is virtually doubled. Personally, I think Water needs multiplying creatures to support Flooding as the "giver of life". But that's a different topic.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 14, 2012, 05:39:04 am
I've put this in for consideration to go up to the Crucible.
Edit: opted out for refining.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: rickerd on January 14, 2012, 11:14:02 am
The effect looks more to a permanent to me than a to creature
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Tiko on January 14, 2012, 12:01:35 pm
Very impressive, eaglgenes. You've found a solution for many weaknesses Water has while also opening up multiple new possibilities in the meantime - and all that in one single card without unnecessarily complicated mechanics. You brought back my faith in the Card Idea section, Sponge has all my support.

You could give the upgraded one +6 HP gain when submerged maybe, considering how hard it is to get that bonus, so it will double its efficiency in both forms if you can pull off the combo; but either way, the card is perfect as it is.

Good work.

Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Daguerreo on January 14, 2012, 04:47:14 pm
I agree with Tiko. This card is great.
You could increase hp of upped one to 6 too
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Rutarete on January 14, 2012, 04:51:15 pm
Fun with Catapult :)
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: rickerd on January 14, 2012, 05:40:57 pm
What about adrenaline?
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: TheManuz on January 14, 2012, 06:06:14 pm
Cool, this could power some interesting bolts-deck!
Make one of these grow + parallel universe!
Wonderful card, can be powerful but not OP.
But please, give it a cost in :water. At least 1 :water!
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 15, 2012, 03:30:50 am
I put in a poll.

What about adrenaline?
Per turn, not per attack.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Daguerreo on January 15, 2012, 01:31:46 pm
I put in a poll.
Why just don't wait for result of your poll and discussions about balance? :o
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 18, 2012, 06:39:52 am
Edited the card.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: OldTrees on January 18, 2012, 06:40:55 am
I put in a poll.

What about adrenaline?
Per turn, not per attack.
Adrenaline gives additional turns. See Ray of Light.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 18, 2012, 10:25:59 pm
I put in a poll.

What about adrenaline?
Per turn, not per attack.
Adrenaline gives additional turns. See Ray of Light.
Adrenalined scorpions don't deal poison every attack. Likewise for the sponge's ability.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Shantu on January 18, 2012, 10:40:32 pm
I don't think the change was needed, nor the lack of synergy with Adrenaline.
You need to devote your deck to life to use adrenaline; you need a card space for the spell and then you need the quanta to play it. You will most likely have better targets for Adrenaline, like a crawler or a frog. It would be useful only to reach max water quanta fairly quick.. but what do you do with it? You can't bolt to death since the introduction of the quanta cap, so it should not be overpowered.
One interesting strategy is mixing adrenacrawler and adrenasponge. Coupled with ice bolts, it could be an interesting rush (crawler softens you up then ice bolt for the kill) - however, I am quite sure it would not be overpoweringly fast.

And why keep the unupped sponge at 0 cost? With a cost of 1 :water you need to have water production already to play it. In a duo, for example, this means either your mark or a few pillars/pends needs to be devoted to water. Without a cost, you could have a lot more freedom when building decks with Sponge, like having it as the only water production in your deck.

Most likely missed something I wanted to say.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 18, 2012, 10:49:51 pm
I don't think the change was needed, nor the lack of synergy with Adrenaline.
You need to devote your deck to life to use adrenaline; you need a card space for the spell and then you need the quanta to play it. You will most likely have better targets for Adrenaline, like a crawler or a frog. It would be useful only to reach max water quanta fairly quick.. but what do you do with it? You can't bolt to death since the introduction of the quanta cap, so it should not be overpowered.

And why keep the unupped sponge at 0 cost? With a cost of 1 :water you need to have water production already to play it. In a duo, for example, this means either your mark or a few pillars/pends devoted to water. Without a cost, you could have a lot more freedom when building decks with Sponge, having it as the only water production in your deck.

Most likely missed something I wanted to say.
What? It's the upped that has no cost, not the unupped. In a water deck, unupped sponge needs a 1 :water seed to produce more, but the upped can go from turn 0 without help.

And as for adrenaline, 4* quanta production for just 4 :life seems like way too much for some. I won't list examples, you go do that yourself.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: OldTrees on January 18, 2012, 10:52:09 pm
I put in a poll.

What about adrenaline?
Per turn, not per attack.
Adrenaline gives additional turns. See Ray of Light.
Adrenalined scorpions don't deal poison every attack. Likewise for the sponge's ability.
Venom triggers on the 1st and 3rd adrenal attacks.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: thanata on January 19, 2012, 06:34:44 am
And why keep the unupped sponge at 0 cost? With a cost of 1 :water you need to have water production already to play it. In a duo, for example, this means either your mark or a few pillars/pends needs to be devoted to water. Without a cost, you could have a lot more freedom when building decks with Sponge, like having it as the only water production in your deck.
What? It's the upped that has no cost, not the unupped. In a water deck, unupped sponge needs a 1 :water seed to produce more, but the upped can go from turn 0 without help.
I think what Shantu was saying with that is that non-water decks could abuse the upped version's zero cost and use mass water quanta with little drawback. Thus making rainbow decks even more overpowered? I could be wrong on what he meant; I'm not him.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Shantu on January 19, 2012, 07:27:36 am
And why not keep the unupped sponge at 0 cost? With a cost of 1 :water you need to have water production already to play it. In a duo, for example, this means either your mark or a few pillars/pends needs to be devoted to water. Without a cost, you could have a lot more freedom when building decks with Sponge, like having it as the only water production in your deck.
What? It's the upped that has no cost, not the unupped. In a water deck, unupped sponge needs a 1 :water seed to produce more, but the upped can go from turn 0 without help.
I think what Shantu was saying with that is that non-water decks could abuse the upped version's zero cost and use mass water quanta with little drawback. Thus making rainbow decks even more overpowered? I could be wrong on what he meant; I'm not him.
Damn, I was tired. I forgot to put a 'not' there...
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 04, 2012, 06:01:38 am
Should I do anything to this card? If you like it, vote for it in the poll.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: ndclub on February 04, 2012, 07:22:53 am
Heavily support the card idea but heavily oppose either upgraded and non-upgraded being colorless. You can increase the ability to compensate but the player should at least have a tad of water to spawn such a thing capable of such high hp. Plus it doesnt fit the theme to have sponges out there for nothing...or at least not in my mind and opinion.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: TheManuz on February 04, 2012, 03:46:08 pm
Heavily support the card idea but heavily oppose either upgraded and non-upgraded being colorless. You can increase the ability to compensate but the player should at least have a tad of water to spawn such a thing capable of such high hp. Plus it doesnt fit the theme to have sponges out there for nothing...or at least not in my mind and opinion.
^ This.
The upped already has increased stat and grows faster in water.

First turn: play upped sponge.
End of turn: sponge get +0|+2, is 0|6 now.
Second turn: sacrifice to gain 6 :water.
Without paying anything!

Make them cost 1 :water|1 :water, even sacrificing them 1 turn later will make you gain 5 :water| 6 :water;
(4 :water|5 :water if you subtract the initial cost).

Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: OldTrees on February 04, 2012, 05:37:41 pm
Heavily support the card idea but heavily oppose either upgraded and non-upgraded being colorless. You can increase the ability to compensate but the player should at least have a tad of water to spawn such a thing capable of such high hp. Plus it doesnt fit the theme to have sponges out there for nothing...or at least not in my mind and opinion.
^ This.
The upped already has increased stat and grows faster in water.

First turn: play upped sponge.
End of turn: sponge get +0|+2, is 0|6 now.
Second turn: sacrifice to gain 6 :water.
Without paying anything!

Make them cost 1 :water|1 :water, even sacrificing them 1 turn later will make you gain 5 :water| 6 :water;
(4 :water|5 :water if you subtract the initial cost).
First turn: play photon
First turn: sacrifice through cremation to gain 7 :fire + 1 nova
Without paying anything!

The card cost and the turn cost are worth counting. Your criticism may or may not be accurate but the reason you gave "Without paying anything!" was fallacious.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Silver on February 06, 2012, 06:41:00 am
crem is two card combo for, as you said, seven fire and one nova
sponge + nova are two cards that can can be played independently. in the wait one turn scenario manuz brought up, these two cards yield a total of five water and one nova.

i believe these two cases are more or less balanced, as while sponge has the independent card thing going on (with the high probability of nova not being used in order to create more focused water deck) and the possibility of yielding greater quantities of water with longer waits, its vulnerable to cc and requires seed quanta to put on the table

on the other hand i have often heard people say that they find immolation really detrimental to the game. would another immo-like be a good addition to the game? people often also complain about how cheap and powerful cc also hurt the game- fast water rushes would only empower them more

on the other other hand water cards arent really great rush cards

eh i dunno this card seems p cool to me

edit: the only thing i dont like is the "gain arbitrary bonus when in flooded area"mechanic. seems really forced to me in this and other cards.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 28, 2012, 02:15:33 am
Thanks to everone who helped this card into the forge. Keep supporting this card, and it may make it into the game.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: Eddygp on December 18, 2013, 10:42:09 pm
Becomes unstoppable with Overdrive. It would win +3|+1 per turn!
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: iskelion on December 26, 2013, 03:10:48 pm
Changed the card to make upgraded stats 0|3 and the gain equal to HP, not HP + 1.

this

Becomes unstoppable with Overdrive. It would win +3|+1 per turn!

and this, you should do something about overdrive
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2013, 09:27:23 pm
Changed the card to make upgraded stats 0|3 and the gain equal to HP, not HP + 1.

this

Becomes unstoppable with Overdrive. It would win +3|+1 per turn!

and this, you should do something about overdrive
Simple: make the growth part an active skill with extract, so when overdrive is applied, it stops growing.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2013, 09:39:04 pm
Oh, and if you need a lot of HP quick, voodoo doll or BB will do the job faster. If you need a lot of quanta quickly, immo does that better.
Title: Re: Sponge | Sponge
Post by: CHV on April 24, 2014, 03:55:30 pm
Lovely card, you have my vote!
blarg: