Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Cygnia => Topic started by: Kael Hate on April 22, 2010, 08:01:43 am

Title: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 22, 2010, 08:01:43 am

Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
(Quantum Mechanics)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/Kael_Hate/Elements/HarmonicPillar.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/Kael_Hate/Elements/HarmonicTower.png)
NAME: Harmonic Pillar
ELEMENT: Other
COST: 2
TYPE: Permanent (Pillar)
ATK|HP: -
ABILITY: Your basic pillar and tower
clusters produce 1 more each
turn.
NAME: Harmonic Tower
ELEMENT: Other
COST: 2
TYPE: Permanent (Pillar)
ATK|HP: -
ABILITY: Your basic pillar and tower
clusters produce 1 more each
turn. Also produces 1 quanta
matching your mark.
ART:
Kael Hate - Sample taken from Free-use Photo and Editied. The Image is of a real Geometricly Harmonic Tower
IDEA:
Kael Hate
NOTES:
- Clusters
SERIES:
QUANTUM MECHANICS - A Series of Card Ideas for Quanta Production  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5981.msg67663#msg67663)
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kameda on April 22, 2010, 11:57:28 am
So, this thing doubles your quanta production? Imagine this in a Fire Lance rush.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 22, 2010, 12:01:22 pm
So, this thing doubles your quanta production? Imagine this in a Fire Lance rush.
No.

If you have ten Fire pillars and this in play you generate 11 fire
If you have 5 fire pillar and 5 water pillar and this in play you generate 6 fire, 6 water.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: xdude on April 22, 2010, 02:31:43 pm
Unupped, you need to have 4 different pillar types for it to pay off? I don't like that.

EDIT: stupid remark is stupid.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: dragonhuman on April 22, 2010, 03:30:57 pm
gasp someone could make a rainbow deck using actuall pillars instead of the quantum ones

its good idea, it probably won't be used much but it'll be good in like 3 color decks or something

does it stack?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: verity_blues on April 22, 2010, 04:25:08 pm
If it stacks, then the playing cost is fine. If it doesn't, why not make the unupped cost 1, the upped, cost 0?

BTW, I like this card idea.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kameda on April 22, 2010, 04:28:22 pm
So, this is like one of each pillar you have in play condensed in one card?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 22, 2010, 05:29:35 pm
gasp someone could make a rainbow deck using actuall pillars instead of the quantum ones
Interesting Idea no.

its good idea, it probably won't be used much but it'll be good in like 3 color decks or something

does it stack?
Yes it stacks, both like a Pillar and in Cumulative effect.
Eg. 1 Water Pillar, 1 Fire Pillar, 2 Harmonic Pillar produces 3 :water 3 :fire


If it stacks, then the playing cost is fine. If it doesn't, why not make the unupped cost 1, the upped, cost 0?

BTW, I like this card idea.
Aye, Stacks both like pillar and cumulative in effect.


So, this is like one of each pillar you have in play condensed in one card?
Yes you could think of it in that way. If you have no other pillars tho the card produces nothing.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kameda on April 22, 2010, 05:50:57 pm
Ok then. Well, I liked the card, nothing more to add.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 22, 2010, 05:57:10 pm
Just though I would make a point of something if persons are unaware. This will produce 1 for a Pillar Stack and 1 for a Tower Stack. Ie 1 Fire Pillar, 1 Fire Tower, 1 Harmonic Pillar produces 4 :fire.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: casthegamer on April 22, 2010, 06:39:16 pm
i like it. anything that makes the land between mono and rainbow easier to stand on is cool in my book. only thing i would suggest is a name/type change. the pillar/tower at the end gives the impression that you may include more than six. the type needs to be a permanent, or make a new 'nonbasic pillar' type because the game rules say '2- Your deck can have a maximum of 6 cards of the same type (does not apply to pillars).' just a bunch of semantics though, great card.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Salamence_747 on April 22, 2010, 07:22:18 pm
only thing i would suggest is a name/type change. the pillar/tower at the end gives the impression that you may include more than six. the type needs to be a permanent, or make a new 'nonbasic pillar' type because the game rules say '2- Your deck can have a maximum of 6 cards of the same type (does not apply to pillars).
- Not a Basic Pillar so is limited to 6
Maybe I'm just used to the basic/special thing 'cause I play Pokemon, but I thought it was rather obvious that this was special and thus bound by normal card limit.

Also, Crystal energy much?

http://www.serebii.net/card/aquapolis/146.shtml


I definitely like the whole idea of throwing in special pillars. This not being an exception.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: casthegamer on April 22, 2010, 10:57:45 pm
Maybe I'm just used to the basic/special thing 'cause I play Pokemon, but I thought it was rather obvious that this was special and thus bound by normal card limit.
it's obvious because he said it. the card does not imply it. if you can include more than six quantum pillars, there is no reason one wouldn't think the same for this card.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Arondight on April 22, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
I like this pillar, it would definitely give a focused increase of synergy between elements. But, by the description, are Towers counted? I'm guessing so, because otherwise there would be a problem with use.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: dragonhuman on April 22, 2010, 11:35:21 pm
hea already said that if you have a fire pillar, a fire tower, and this out you would get 4  :fire
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Arondight on April 23, 2010, 12:13:06 am
hea already said that if you have a fire pillar, a fire tower, and this out you would get 4  :fire
I see that now. Strange effect, though, I wouldn't add pillars in just for that.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 23, 2010, 02:35:53 pm
i like it. anything that makes the land between mono and rainbow easier to stand on is cool in my book. only thing i would suggest is a name/type change. the pillar/tower at the end gives the impression that you may include more than six. the type needs to be a permanent, or make a new 'nonbasic pillar' type because the game rules say '2- Your deck can have a maximum of 6 cards of the same type (does not apply to pillars).' just a bunch of semantics though, great card.
Good point. It is a type Pillar tho particularly so it can be destroyed by Tsunami and Earthquake and stack by default.

I would like to see Quantum Pillar/Tower limited to 6 also (yes even tho I have 24 upgraded) but the card set needs some other pillar|tower types to fill the gap first.


Maybe I'm just used to the basic/special thing 'cause I play Pokemon, but I thought it was rather obvious that this was special and thus bound by normal card limit.
Sometimes its not so obvious. Its ok to ask or state it and understand that it could be misinterpreted if there is a semi-conflicting rule.

Also, Crystal energy much?

http://www.serebii.net/card/aquapolis/146.shtml

I definitely like the whole idea of throwing in special pillars. This not being an exception.
Lol, long time since I played pokemon ccg. Don't recall it being around when I played. Crystal energy looks more powerful than Harmonic tower because it has a production even if the other conditions aren't met. If I have 2 water attached does the Crystal energy produce 2 water also?


hea already said that if you have a fire pillar, a fire tower, and this out you would get 4  :fire
I see that now. Strange effect, though, I wouldn't add pillars in just for that.
Its a mechanical anomaly. A pillar and a tower is the same thing once it is in play and this card simply adds 1 to the stack production. While the engine calculates stacks seperately it will be best to let it work that way.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Salamence_747 on April 24, 2010, 04:22:36 pm
Also, Crystal energy much?

http://www.serebii.net/card/aquapolis/146.shtml

I definitely like the whole idea of throwing in special pillars. This not being an exception.
Lol, long time since I played pokemon ccg. Don't recall it being around when I played. Crystal energy looks more powerful than Harmonic tower because it has a production even if the other conditions aren't met. If I have 2 water attached does the Crystal energy produce 2 water also?
Nope.

If you have 2 water, crystal counts as one water.
It gets complicated when you have the fossil ditto that can mod energy types, but this is off-topic.


Anyway, this whole thing gave me an idea. If the basic/special tower thing were implemented, it seems rather obvious (to me anyway) that quantum pillars would be special. (Of course you'd probably have to up their production to 4-6.)

In fact, your card implies that quantum pillars are not basic:

ABILITY: For each Basic Pillar type you have in play produce one of the Quanta that Pillar produces.

Comment: Because it does not accelerate the random Quantum Pillar it does not aid rainbow unless they use individual Pillars.
You said that it affects basic pillars, but not Quantum pillars. Was it intentional that you called Quantum Pillars non-basic?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on April 25, 2010, 01:50:36 am
ABILITY: For each Basic Pillar type you have in play produce one of the Quanta that Pillar produces.

Comment: Because it does not accelerate the random Quantum Pillar it does not aid rainbow unless they use individual Pillars.
You said that it affects basic pillars, but not Quantum pillars. Was it intentional that you called Quantum Pillars non-basic?
Yep.
Basic Pillar fits the form of, Free card matching the element that produces 1 quanta of that element each turn.

Quantum Pillar isn't of that form, doesn't work in mono and isnt the most basic form of pillar. Note that towers get under the basic rule because they are considered the basic pillar under the upgrade rule.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: asymmetry on May 10, 2010, 02:11:20 pm
I like it very much!! finally 3/4/5 color decks won't be pain in the butt to balance after all.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on May 13, 2010, 05:24:31 pm
Updated with image and less technical wording to make it more friendly.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 13, 2010, 08:10:01 pm
Nice, I like this very much.

If you wanted to make it more simple and in line with what the game currently has, you could make the upped version so that it does what Towers usually do, that is produce extra quanta when you play them.

But it works like this too.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on May 14, 2010, 09:05:07 am
Nice, I like this very much.

If you wanted to make it more simple and in line with what the game currently has, you could make the upped version so that it does what Towers usually do, that is produce extra quanta when you play them.

But it works like this too.
I wanted to do that, but because the basic version doesn't actually produce anything (just increase what the other clusters are doing), going to the upped version wouldn't actually do anything coming into play. I kept the magic 2:3 ratio on the upped card by letting it increase your mark as if it was a cluster too.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: $$$man on May 29, 2010, 11:41:16 pm
wait so 6 harmonic towers change your mark to a x7 for the and can be payed for by using a nova :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: smuglapse on May 30, 2010, 12:13:52 am
wait so 6 harmonic towers change your mark to a x7 for the and can be payed for by using a nova :o :o :o :o
How is that different than having 6 pillars of your mark?  And you don't need the nova, either.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: $$$man on May 30, 2010, 12:23:52 am
wait so 6 harmonic towers change your mark to a x7 for the and can be payed for by using a nova :o :o :o :o
How is that different than having 6 pillars of your mark?  And you don't need the nova, either.
the fact that it also increases the production of any other tower stacks by 6 :o
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: hello5666 on May 30, 2010, 12:26:45 am
Awesome.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: finkel on May 30, 2010, 12:35:52 am
I like it. If you had a trio-color deck, two of these could add as much as 12 quanta per turn  ;D
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: alf15 on May 30, 2010, 12:42:22 am
may be a bit op if stacked but otherwise its basically another pillar of each type you control and your mark.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: hello5666 on May 30, 2010, 12:48:33 am
Maybe make it like this: This card also gives x1 to your mark each time this card is played.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on May 30, 2010, 10:47:33 am
Maybe make it like this: This card also gives x1 to your mark each time this card is played.
Its a pillar so it could be smashed by quicksand and Tsunami so I couldn't do that.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: $$$man on May 30, 2010, 12:32:56 pm
I like it. If you had a trio-color deck, two of these could add as much as 12 quanta per turn  ;D

in a mono it could create 21 quanta a turn imagine this
6harmonic tower
1fire pillar
1 fire tower
Mark of fire
now add some fire bolts and farenhiets and u win
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on May 30, 2010, 02:07:05 pm
I like it. If you had a trio-color deck, two of these could add as much as 12 quanta per turn  ;D

in a mono it could create 21 quanta a turn imagine this
6harmonic tower
1fire pillar
1 fire tower
Mark of fire
now add some fire bolts and farenhiets and u win
LOL yeah its a combo.
Wasn't a big win situation when tested.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: $$$man on June 28, 2010, 11:35:08 pm
The card is now in the Armory lets hope zanz likes it :)
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Glitch on June 29, 2010, 01:01:52 am
Hmm, looks like it boosts duo decks while not helping rainbows in the slightest.  An excellent choice!
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: tinkady on June 29, 2010, 10:25:19 pm
Hmm, looks like it boosts duo decks while not helping rainbows in the slightest.  An excellent choice!
yep, i like it!
but i think it should treat pillars and towers of the same type together...we don't wanna nerf towers do we? it'd just make things weird.
also the upgraded version of this compared to the unupped version is much stronger than towers vs. pillars. maybe just have it produce a quanta of your mark when played? or even better (but could be too complicated to fit on the card) it just gives double production when its played...like if you have a  :fire stack and a  :aether stack out when its played you get  :fire :aether when played then again at the end of the turn, just like with normal towers
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Daneman on June 30, 2010, 01:17:03 am
So as i understand this doesn't even affect quantum towers? That would be great! Nice card and congrats on getting it through to the next level! I really hope this will be implemented into the game.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: asymmetry on June 30, 2010, 03:50:50 am
Wow, it's already in the armory! Amazing
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on June 30, 2010, 07:04:50 am
So as i understand this doesn't even affect quantum towers? That would be great! Nice card and congrats on getting it through to the next level! I really hope this will be implemented into the game.
By default it does not interact with Quantum pillars. It could be an option to do so but I'd rather it didn't in the current environment. Harmonic Pillar was designed with the intention that Quantum Pillars would become restricted and reduced to 6 in future elements updates but has been balanced with the environment as it currently is.

Wow, it's already in the armory! Amazing
People have been asking for Quantum Mechanic cards for a long time, I guess this has the right mix and balance to get the votes. I'm proud of it.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Setra Long Dead King on July 14, 2010, 10:40:25 am
what about 6 of these in a drain life deck? or that entropy sheild?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 14, 2010, 10:46:03 am
what about 6 of these in a drain life deck? or that entropy sheild?
what about it?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Setra Long Dead King on July 15, 2010, 11:47:59 am
painfull
what about 6 of these in a drain life deck? or that entropy sheild?
what about it?
painfull but i guess i am only looking at the negative side
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: guy_fawkes on July 15, 2010, 12:31:37 pm
this card generates 1 extra quanta per pillar stack...
it does not give an enormous quanta advantage ...
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Setra Long Dead King on July 16, 2010, 01:32:56 am
oh sorry in that case its a good idea
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Epidemia on July 16, 2010, 05:25:24 am
I love the concept. IMO this would be great for duo and trio decks.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: DRROXO on July 16, 2010, 06:35:01 am
isnt going to be put in its up
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: karthikking on July 19, 2010, 01:39:37 am
I would say you should make it add two per basic pillar. Less up that way.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: PhantomFox on July 19, 2010, 03:41:24 am
Underpowered?  Hardly.  With a duo deck, one of these acts as two pillars.  And that's at its lowest power.  It's generic, so it can match whatever you want.  Keep in mind that this is a pillar and can be stacked multiple times like normal pillars/towers.  Just 5 of these will produce at least 10 quanta in a duo deck, 15 in a trio. 
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Cloudstorm2 on July 22, 2010, 11:58:19 am
I think this card will apply best to trio decks... adding a lot of stability to usually difficult to handle draws... I didn't yet understand if the card generates one quanta for towers and one for pillars of the same element or not
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 22, 2010, 12:14:53 pm
I think this card will apply best to trio decks... adding a lot of stability to usually difficult to handle draws... I didn't yet understand if the card generates one quanta for towers and one for pillars of the same element or not
If you have a Aether Pillar and a Aether Tower and a Harmonic Pillar; Harmonic Pillar will increase each cluster by 1 allowing you to generate 4 :aether each turn. 
Yes it is designed for Trio. Tetra and Penta element decks and somewhat requires that level of elements to be effective enough to offset the deployment cost.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Cloudstorm2 on July 22, 2010, 05:00:06 pm
If you have a Aether Pillar and a Aether Tower and a Harmonic Pillar; Harmonic Pillar will increase each cluster by 1 allowing you to generate 4 :aether each turn. 
Yes it is designed for Trio. Tetra and Penta element decks and somewhat requires that level of elements to be effective enough to offset the deployment cost.
Wow... so it's going to be useful to insert both upgraded and non pillars in the same deck in order to have more quantas... impressive
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 22, 2010, 05:04:08 pm
If you have a Aether Pillar and a Aether Tower and a Harmonic Pillar; Harmonic Pillar will increase each cluster by 1 allowing you to generate 4 :aether each turn. 
Yes it is designed for Trio. Tetra and Penta element decks and somewhat requires that level of elements to be effective enough to offset the deployment cost.
Wow... so it's going to be useful to insert both upgraded and non pillars in the same deck in order to have more quantas... impressive
Yup a balance between basic and upped cards to get a more effective result rather than just upgrade everything regardless.
Note that you will be at a slight disadvantage as the pillar can't get the extra quanta a tower does to pay for the Harmonic pillar but istead get a longer term gain with the mix combination.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Rainbowz on July 23, 2010, 03:15:42 am
This could pwwn in quantam pillars since they create 3........ 4 !!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 23, 2010, 04:30:37 am
This could pwwn in quantam pillars since they create 3........ 4 !!!!!!!!!!
Harmonic Pillar does not interact with Quantum Pillar at this time.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Zac33333 on July 23, 2010, 08:05:09 am
What about the art? Is it allowed for you to just vectorize up an image from a real one? Also, why doesnt it interact with quantum pillars? Like say quantum pillars get +1 too so 4 random quanta per turn?  Just sayin'..
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Cloudstorm2 on July 23, 2010, 12:03:56 pm
Also, why doesnt it interact with quantum pillars? Like say quantum pillars get +1 too so 4 random quanta per turn?  Just sayin'..
I think that is because this card was projected in order to reduce diffusion of quantum pillars increasing the efficiency of otherwise difficult to play trio decks... it is made to help single element pillars
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 23, 2010, 04:08:17 pm
What about the art? Is it allowed for you to just vectorize up an image from a real one? Also, why doesnt it interact with quantum pillars? Like say quantum pillars get +1 too so 4 random quanta per turn?  Just sayin'..
Whats the Matter with the Art? Its a real life Harmonic Tower.
Good Chance Zanz will want his own elements exclusive art.
Maybe VRT can do something that can be used in the game for me or when I get time, (if ever) I'll do some new art for it.

It increases the Cluster size so if it worked on Quantum Pillars, the 1 Quantum and 1 Harmonic would make 6 random Quanta.
I don't think this is appropriate and I don't want it to interact with any future special Pillars or Towers so they're all excluded.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: rotface on July 26, 2010, 07:38:26 am
this would be cool to have
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: guy_fawkes on July 26, 2010, 08:43:13 am
what about changing the wording on the card as:

[Harmonic Pillar] produces one quanta for each pillar and tower cluster you have of the type that kind of pillar/tower cluster can produce.

This way a quantum tower cluster will produce 1 additional random quanta, a mono cluster will produce one quanta of that type...
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 26, 2010, 08:51:10 am
what about changing the wording on the card as:

[Harmonic Pillar] produces one quanta for each pillar and tower cluster you have of the type that kind of pillar/tower cluster can produce.

This way a quantum tower cluster will produce 1 additional random quanta, a mono cluster will produce one quanta of that type...
Do quantum pillars / towers need the boost?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: guy_fawkes on July 26, 2010, 09:15:52 am
why not?
i suppose we all agree that quantum pillars are balanced compared to the other pillars...
so why this mechanic should boost only mono pillars?

and it's just 1 random quanta per cluster, not a big deal...
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on July 26, 2010, 09:53:38 am
why not?
i suppose we all agree that quantum pillars are balanced compared to the other pillars...
so why this mechanic should boost only mono pillars?

and it's just 1 random quanta per cluster, not a big deal...

But could it do without it?

Unlike normal Pillars and Towers that just need 1 added to the cluster count when processing, Quantum Pillars and Towers (and any future non-basic Pillar/Tower) would require a special calculation outside the normal cluster multiplier to handle the way it generates quanta.

If we allow it work like it does for Basic Pillars/Towers then Quantum Pillars/Towers will be throwing out an extra 3 further accelerating the in game issue where Quantity out classes quality. (See arguments about Nova ruining the curve due to Large free quanta source) Note this seems like a contra statement because the Harmonic pillar itself generates an excess of quanta but with the Harmonic Pillar you get nothing until create a situation but in combination with quantum pillar you get another Quantum pillar equivalent offsetting the cost of the Harmonic Pillar and then getting a benefit on top of that for each additional basic pillar. Quanta Tower already offsets the Harmonic Pillars cost it does not need additional synergy, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: guy_fawkes on July 26, 2010, 10:33:38 am
if you say it's more an implementation problem, i have no arguments against it, since i don't know the source code for these type of mechanics ( i suppose every cluster could be associated with a variable containing the quanta types the cluster can produce, 1 type for basic clusters, 12 types for quantum towers clusters, in the future maybe dual-pillars that can produce either one type or the other...)

i am against too the solution that the harmonic produces 3 quanta for every quantum cluster because it would be overkill...
but producing one seems fair and not broken (think that if you swapped a quantum tower for a harmonic tower you could have 6 random quanta + the 3 quanta generated during the act of playing it compared to 4 random quanta )
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: rotface on August 04, 2010, 02:05:13 am
between this and quantum flash my fav 2 idk witch is better
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: OldTrees on August 09, 2010, 04:55:43 am
how would this affect pendulums?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on August 09, 2010, 05:15:37 am
how would this affect pendulums?
At the moment it wouldn't. The pendulums aren't basic Pillars.

If they were to be added to the list of things the Harmonic pillar effects then it would be the same as a pillar and ad one to the stack. Ie. 1 Aether Pillar, 1 Time Pendulum, 1 Darkness Mark, I Harmonic Pillar would make. 2 :aether 2 :time 1 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness on the other. Harmonic Tower adds 1 :darkness in both cases.



Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: masterada on August 17, 2010, 08:20:41 pm
i made a similar pillar some days ago, and now i find this  :o
seems like i wont sign up for crucible, but still, ill link my topic here :P
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11340.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11340.0.html)
the purpose is the same (a pillar for duo/trio decks), and both has its pros and cons
the main diff would be, that mine supports 2color+3rd color mark+the new pendulums, but u need to look out not to use up all ur quanta of a given color (+can countered by discord)

personally i still prefer my variation :P ^^, but ill be happy to see either 1 in game (we really need a boost for multi color (not rainbow) decks)
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Cloudstorm2 on August 19, 2010, 10:31:22 am
how would this affect pendulums?
At the moment it wouldn't. The pendulums aren't basic Pillars.

If they were to be added to the list of things the Harmonic pillar effects then it would be the same as a pillar and ad one to the stack. Ie. 1 Aether Pillar, 1 Time Pendulum, 1 Darkness Mark, I Harmonic Pillar would make. 2 :aether 2 :time 1 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness on the other. Harmonic Tower adds 1 :darkness in both cases.




Wait, there's something wrong here: you said harmonic tower will add  :darkness to pendulum's effect in any case but the quanta you described don't follow this rule. If the harmonic tower would add only  :darkness the quanta would be 2 :aether 1 :time 2 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness the other
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Gocubbies1212 on August 19, 2010, 11:40:31 am
love it.  nothing to add but it seems very useful.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on August 19, 2010, 11:46:13 am
how would this affect pendulums?
At the moment it wouldn't. The pendulums aren't basic Pillars.

If they were to be added to the list of things the Harmonic pillar effects then it would be the same as a pillar and ad one to the stack. Ie. 1 Aether Pillar, 1 Time Pendulum, 1 Darkness Mark, I Harmonic Pillar would make. 2 :aether 2 :time 1 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness on the other. Harmonic Tower adds 1 :darkness in both cases.




Wait, there's something wrong here: you said harmonic tower will add  :darkness to pendulum's effect in any case but the quanta you described don't follow this rule. If the harmonic tower would add only  :darkness the quanta would be 2 :aether 1 :time 2 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness the other
The difference between the Harmonic Pillar and Harmonic Tower is that it increases the mark by 1 also, thats where the 1 :darkness came from and has nothing to do with the pendulum.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Aves on August 19, 2010, 02:07:37 pm
How would nymph queens/tears affect this?

You said that quantum towers and pendulums aren't 'basic' pillars; but since nymph's tears work on them, then a logical conclusion would be that all pillars, regardless of whether they are basic or not, are affected by nymph's tears. Thus, harmonic pillars would also be affected... how would that work?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on August 19, 2010, 02:12:11 pm
How would nymph queens/tears affect this?

You said that quantum towers and pendulums aren't 'basic' pillars; but since nymph's tears work on them, then a logical conclusion would be that all pillars, regardless of whether they are basic or not, are affected by nymph's tears. Thus, harmonic pillars would also be affected... how would that work?
Harmonic Pillar isn't going to work with Nymph Queen, but if it was going to, it would generate a random Nymph as the Pillar is other, the same as Quantum Pillar. Nymph works on the targets element, not its quanta production.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Cloudstorm2 on August 20, 2010, 07:16:27 am
how would this affect pendulums?
At the moment it wouldn't. The pendulums aren't basic Pillars.

If they were to be added to the list of things the Harmonic pillar effects then it would be the same as a pillar and ad one to the stack. Ie. 1 Aether Pillar, 1 Time Pendulum, 1 Darkness Mark, I Harmonic Pillar would make. 2 :aether 2 :time 1 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness on the other. Harmonic Tower adds 1 :darkness in both cases.




Wait, there's something wrong here: you said harmonic tower will add  :darkness to pendulum's effect in any case but the quanta you described don't follow this rule. If the harmonic tower would add only  :darkness the quanta would be 2 :aether 1 :time 2 :darkness one turn and 2 :aether 3 :darkness the other
The difference between the Harmonic Pillar and Harmonic Tower is that it increases the mark by 1 also, thats where the 1 :darkness came from and has nothing to do with the pendulum.
Ah ok, if that is it, really nice card is under development... do you think harmonic pillar/tower could come out in the next update?
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kael Hate on August 20, 2010, 07:29:51 am
Ah ok, if that is it, really nice card is under development... do you think harmonic pillar/tower could come out in the next update?
Everything in the Card Ideas section is just suggestion to Zanz on what we would like and not in any way guaranteed to get into the game. The cards in the Armory have the most respect of the community but that still guarantees nothing. The last idea Zanz chose to build on was Voodoo Doll, and it was only in the forge.

So no, probably wont be in the next update.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Dark.Gr on August 23, 2010, 08:37:56 am
Just though I would make a point of something if persons are unaware. This will produce 1 for a Pillar Stack and 1 for a Tower Stack. Ie 1 Fire Pillar, 1 Fire Tower, 1 Harmonic Pillar produces 4 :fire.
Great idea. Makes the gap between Upgraded and non-upgraded smaller as well.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: silux on August 23, 2010, 03:39:20 pm
mmm
so it's more strong a deck with half pillars and half tower and some armonic pillar ,than a shiny deck with all upped(which costs so much more)

i'm too young to understand:)
but i am up with the idea that a pillar that boost other pillars is good!
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Bird man on September 04, 2010, 01:06:05 am
This would go great with a rainbow deck, especially after you get alot of pillars out
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Kuroaitou on September 04, 2010, 04:26:31 am
Hm.

With the recent patch, perhaps it's time to also include Pendulums in the list of cards affected by the Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower, no? :)

Earthquake is going to be a little bit more annoyed if that change was implemented...
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Destiny_NSC on October 13, 2010, 03:29:45 pm
the idea is really interesting.. i like it

in my oppinion nothing have to be changed :)
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Dan43 on October 30, 2010, 02:32:19 am
So, this thing doubles your quanta production? Imagine this in a Fire Lance rush.
No.

If you have ten Fire pillars and this in play you generate 11 fire
If you have 5 fire pillar and 5 water pillar and this in play you generate 6 fire, 6 water.
Doesn't that make it incredibly useless?
For monos, I would rather use another pillar.
For duos and trios, I might use a harmonic pillar.
For rainbows, nope.
Why would this make a good addition? The only situation where this card effect can be highly useful is in a deck with more than 5 different kinds of pillars...
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: OldTrees on October 30, 2010, 04:03:13 am
Why would this make a good addition? The only situation where this card effect can be highly useful is in a deck with more than 5 different kinds of pillars...
Don't you love it when you answer yourself?
This card would permit 5 element decks to be viable while still being useful in mono (pillars and towers), duo (acts as 2 pillars) and trios and quads as well before capping out at penta/hexa and maybe even hepta decks.

A big reason (if not the only valid reason) for including new forms of quanta generation is to support more decks structures. Harmonic pillar does that by promoting the use of regular pillars in many element decks for consistent many color decks. Previously those decks would have had to rely (and fail) on quantum pillars.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: WisperingWind on November 11, 2010, 08:42:25 pm
I love your idea of special pillars :). Wouldn't this be a little too strong though? *If it stacks that is (imagine +6 per stack).
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: doublecross on January 27, 2011, 09:28:39 pm
Guys guys guys. This card is not OP, and it is not useless.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 27, 2011, 09:37:44 pm
Guys guys guys. This card is not OP, and it is not useless.
^Explantion to this:
This card basically acts as a seperate pillar, with the upped producing an extra quanta of your mark (which should justify the cost of 2 :rainbow, you are paying 2/3 (yes,two thirds) quanta to produce potententially up to 5 extra quanta). It's pretty clear this card is meant for multiquanta support, as indicated by the series name "Quantum Mechanics".

Oldtrees comment shows the purpose of this card.
A big reason (if not the only valid reason) for including new forms of quanta generation is to support more decks structures. Harmonic pillar does that by promoting the use of regular pillars in many element decks for consistent many color decks. Previously those decks would have had to rely (and fail) on quantum pillars.
In fact, if this was to be introduced, it would make a great substitute to those useless quantum towers in starter decks.
Title: Re: Harmonic Pillar | Harmonic Tower
Post by: Xrbeta on January 31, 2011, 05:53:46 pm
Idk after reading a couple of the posts it seems kinda balanced.
blarg: