Decaying Dragon | Dragonic Horror

[Sevs]

Thinking about relatively cheap creatures, you always have to think about fractal. With a few quantum and aether towers you could easily fractal one of these for a maximum of 90 damage. it isnt a OTK but it is still pretty cheap to get off because of the 3:1 quantum tower ratio. I wonder how a deck of (6 of these and 10 QT's and 9 Aether Towers 5 fractal mark of aether) would do.

[Nepycros]

Thinking about relatively cheap creatures, you always have to think about fractal. With a few quantum and aether towers you could easily fractal one of these for a maximum of 90 damage. it isnt a OTK but it is still pretty cheap to get off because of the 3:1 quantum tower ratio. I wonder how a deck of (6 of these and 10 QT's and 9 Aether Towers 5 fractal mark of aether) would do.

Yeah... 9 , and 108 random quanta later.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Thinking about relatively cheap creatures, you always have to think about fractal. With a few quantum and aether towers you could easily fractal one of these for a maximum of 90 damage. it isnt a OTK but it is still pretty cheap to get off because of the 3:1 quantum tower ratio. I wonder how a deck of (6 of these and 10 QT's and 9 Aether Towers 5 fractal mark of aether) would do.

Yeah... 9 , and 108 random quanta later.

There are other possible OTK's in the game and they also a cost a lot of quantum, for example the Chimera Dragon OTK (which also relies on quantum buildup) and the Fractal Ball Lightning OTK (Which technically just requires an empty hand). As Nepycros stated above this OTK would take just as if longer than other OTKs.

I've calculated the current value of Decaying Dragon using Oldtrees's formula.

Based upon Tower Shield vs Titanium Shield and Quantum Pillar vs Fire Pillar, I have created this relation between Other and Elemental quanta

(11/7) + (10/7) [Elemental Quanta] = [Other Quanta]
(7/10) [Other quanta] - (11/10) = [Elemental Quanta]

Card Cost = Attack + HP modifier + ability value + bonuses  -1 (I have added -1 because Oldtrees's formula was made before Zanz lowered the costs of many cards in the game. Oldtrees himself stated once that this change to the formula is valid.) Unupgraded Attack: +9 HP: + 0 (1-5) Ability Value : -2 (Spark's immediate self-destruction is rated at -3 and is preventable with buff cards. This card's destruction is inevitable unless RT is cast to continuously maintain 1 dragon, although it does take a few turns. Overall Decaying Dragon's is slightly stronger, still worth -3 IMHO.) Bonus: -1 in comparison the current metagame. Final Elemental Value : 6 W/Other Formula (11/7) + (10/7)*(6) ≈ 10 Upgraded Attack : +10 HP: +0 (1-5) Ability Value: -2 Bonus: -1 for upgrade, -1 in comparison the current metagame. Final Elemental Value : 6 W/Other Formula (11/7) + (10/7)*(6) ≈ 10

Give or a take a few quantum, the cards are still somewhere near being well balanced.

[Sevs]

alright i was just stating a possibility. this could be easier and more reliable.

As for Old Trees formula, math isnt always a good representation of the actual in game play. Formulas cannot describe the synergy with other cards.

Anyways just my input take it as you will

[Bieber4Ever98]

Oh, and something that is engineered to DIE, triggers DEATH effects, and otherwise has no synergy with other elements is clearly OTHER. Other is only when you either have something meant to work with all elements (in extreme cases, not just like nova), or work with NO elements. This dragon works in Death, moreso than any other creature, so it BELONGS in Death.

Your logic is stupid as saying " Hey, Cow has a tail, Lion also has a tail, so Cow should belong to Cat family. "

The main reason why it should belong to Other is that it is a creature that costs random quanta to summon and a lot of it, this is where all the focus should go (it's real family) and not on the case that it dies after few turns (it has a tail).

The reason for it to not be a death creature is that it has no relation with elemental quanta . For this i would like to point out the previous silent law in elements that i mentioned earlier and rewrite to include pillars and luciferin (which are really unnecessary to consider for a dragon like creature) to something more simplified.

" Any non-other cards can only belong to a respective element, if it associates to the respective quanta either in unupped or upped form "

By associates i means either costing or producing the respective quanta in anyway. If you have any arguments against this i would explain this more.


Now the only claim that remains from your side to be a death creature is that it has a skill to DIE after few turns and triggers death effects (which is a minor reason compared to the random quanta cost) it thus has no synergy with any other element other than death. You justify this by saying that having an abiliity that affiliates with an element would belong to the respective element and OTHER cards should have no synergy with a respective element. That is a totally wrong concept and i can prove it.

Take a look at these Other cards. They are Other because they don't associate with elemental quanta and not because their ability affiliation to certain elements,

SoD - It is an Other card but it's ability is Light based and synergises best with Light.

Dagger - It is an Other card but it's ability affiliates to darkness/death. (Same with hammer and bow with earth/gravity or air based synergy)



TL;DR - Decaying Dragon should be an Other card with death synergy. Since it costs random quanta and does not associate with any elemental quanta it should belong to Other. Death based ability is too inferior to make it a death card compared to random quanta reasoning.

no it doesnt get killed by holy flash.
its in the "others" section.
and may be dies 2/3 turns?

It says its a death creature (not Other). So it can be killed Holy Flash.

I'd just like to note something for other people who read this thread : The cost of a card and the element of a card are two different things. The cost is Other. The element is Death. So Holy Flash kills it.

I see, so Luciferase costs Light, does it?

Luciferin | Luciferase makes creatures produce light quanta, thus it belongs to Light. I would compare it to Pillars | Towers of each elements, they don't cost their own element quanta but they produce them. I would not compare it to 10|12 random quanta costing dragon which belongs to death ?

Oh, and something that is engineered to DIE, triggers DEATH effects, and otherwise has no synergy with other elements is clearly OTHER. Other is only when you either have something meant to work with all elements (in extreme cases, not just like nova), or work with NO elements. This dragon works in Death, moreso than any other creature, so it BELONGS in Death.

QFT. Nik_V, if you could provide a valid reason why the theme of Decay/Zombies is fit for Other, I would agree to change the card.
Regarding Animate Weapon - The only simple buff that can be done here is to lower the cost, but 0-cost cards seem to be limited to creatures. Making the card cost Other as an upgrade appears to be an attempt to prevent abuse.

QFT ? WTF ? 


I think first thing you should do is to make it an Other card if you think argument at top is satisfactory.

Balance wise, it is nearly balanced. 10|12 random quanta is not OP for a dragon with lesser stats and dies after few turns.

One dimensional shield would stand would make a decaying dragon useless and just waste all those quanta. Proper Sundial chaining totally weakens them. Also non-killing CC like freeze/congeal,basiliskblood would make this creature useless and works almost like an instakill ability. 

[Bloodshadow]

Dude. Why the hell are you demanding that this should be changed to an Other card? It is a zombie, an undead creature. Flavor demands that it is a Death card.

And honestly, being Death is a slight nerf to the card. It can be killed by Holy Light.

[Nepycros]

To add: It's entire effect, it's ONLY effect, synergizes with Bone Wall, Graveyard, Vulture, Soul Catcher, and any other card that uses DEATH to grow stronger. It has so much synergy with a single element, claiming it belongs to all elements is plain blind.

[EmeraldTiger]

I have been watching this thread, and I agree with Bloodshadow and Nepycros.

[ZephyrPhantom]

The good thing here is that I've managed to get the point across that this card is balanced.

As for the argument that this card should be in other:
Nik, in terms of other cards you've only pointed out two.
-All Shards are Other, and that's understandable because Shards are an archetype, sort of like a classification of the the non-elemental magic in this world.
-Other weapons symbolize the generic weapons in RPGs that you could find about anywhere. The mark affinities are just a bonus.
-Luceferin makes things glow. Clearly Light.
-Animate Weapon allows weapons to fly, but it also technically makes them a "creature" which could be considered an enchantment or a spell in that respect. However since the spell makes a weapon a flying weapon powered by the wind, it is air. (That being said, as earth it could resphape the composition of the weapon and life could literally bring the weapon to life. Zanz instead focuses on the air concept.)
-Immolation, RoL,Holy Flash and Spark are self-explanitory.
-Sundial is mainly other costing for accesibility and lack of a better nerf.
-Nova could be Other (widespread use) or Gravity/Aether (Astral Phonomena) - however Entropy has a tendency to deal with all elements as well.

Elemental cards that actually cost Other:
Holy Flash
Animate Weapon
Luceferin

Elemental cards that imply Other's "theme" (versatility)
RoL
Spark
Immolation
Sundial
Nova

So why should Decaying Dragon be Death? (Already stated by Nepycros and Bloodshadow, but repetition indicates emphasis IMHO)
-It's a zombie.
-It has a death effect that has some very clear synergy with cards within it's own element.
-It does not thematically fit within any of the other elements.

And honestly, being Death is a slight nerf to the card. It can be killed by Holy Light.

Your current argument Nik states that this card should just be Other because it costs Other. In that case I suggest looking at the above list I provided and countering the ones currently in an element, especially Nova, which has high potential to be in Gravity or Other according to your logic.

[Tiko]

The good thing here is that I've managed to get the point across that this card is balanced.

[...]

Nope, it didn't work..

[ZephyrPhantom]

The good thing here is that I've managed to get the point across that this card is balanced.

[...]

Nope, it didn't work..

For you, maybe. However a good part of the community seems to think it is balanced as well/would probably require actual playtesting.

I suggest going back and looking at the quantum formula/equation I posted earlier - if you can find anything wrong with this I will be willing to discuss with you about this card. If not, then please do not keep saying "OP" until you give me a counter to my arguments (you failed to respond to my Void Dragon argument as well - I had to bump that for a response from different users). I have stated an argument with facts and even the math to show that is balance - all you have said is that it's OP because of Nova.

For anyone that comes here : please read the thread before posting something. The things people are pointing out are beginning to get repetitive or ignorant-sounding, and I appreciate constructive criticism from users aware of what has already been discussed much more than destructive criticism.

[Bloodshadow]

Nope, it didn't work..

Excuse me, but are you so presumptuous to think that you are some sort of authority figure? You are not Zanzarino. You do not hold the right to declare "this card is OP", or "your arguments at balancing do not work". Either you counter every single one of Zblader's argument while bringing new arguments of your own, or do not say anything at all. A single post claiming "nope, it didn't work" accomplishes absolutely nothing constructive whatsoever.