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Offline jmdt

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211240#msg211240
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 12:16:18 am »
This need to cost 8 unupped and 6 upped.  This card in a speedbow would be bizarrely OP.

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211418#msg211418
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2010, 03:33:56 am »
Precognition costs 2 :time and 1 :time for the upped, and you see also the opponent's hand. So I think that 1 :time for each card you draw (for the upped) is a good price. Cose is just one card (not 3) I consider that a cost of 7 :time and 6 :time for the upped is fair.
With the hourglass I pay 4 :time, wait one turn, and then pay 3 :time more in the three next turns for the same. So I consider that doing the same in just one turn but not being able to keep drawing (as you can do with the hourglass) is the same.

The other option is just to draw 2 cards instead of 3 and put the cost to 5 :time and 4 :time for the upped. More able to be played.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211474#msg211474
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2010, 05:12:13 am »
Precognition costs 2 :time and 1 :time for the upped, and you see also the opponent's hand. So I think that 1 :time for each card you draw (for the upped) is a good price. Cose is just one card (not 3) I consider that a cost of 7 :time and 6 :time for the upped is fair.
With the hourglass I pay 4 :time, wait one turn, and then pay 3 :time more in the three next turns for the same. So I consider that doing the same in just one turn but not being able to keep drawing (as you can do with the hourglass) is the same.

The other option is just to draw 2 cards instead of 3 and put the cost to 5 :time and 4 :time for the upped. More able to be played.
Important note: Precognition does not generate net card advantage. This does.
This should be valued as a Precog-See Opp's Hand+Draw 2
Once again, the cost of precog is not helpful in determining the value of card advantage.

I think that Card Advantage 1 is worth 3 :time. (Hence Hourglass pays for itself in 5 turns)
I think that Deck Thinning 1 is worth 1 :time.
Therefore Deck Thinning 1 + Card Advantage 2 is worth 7 :time.
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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211605#msg211605
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2010, 12:29:57 pm »
@OldTrees: Ok. Then it has no sense to build a card that draws 3, because the cost is crazy. Is like if I want it to draw 5 cards: nice, but how much?
So I'll change the text to draw 2 cards and that would be something like this (tell me if I'm wrong)
Deck Thinning 1 + Card advantage 1 = 4 :time (3 for the upped?)

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211679#msg211679
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2010, 02:15:37 pm »
4|3 :time sounds right for a spell to draw 2.
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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg211769#msg211769
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2010, 04:21:47 pm »
4|3 :time sounds right for a spell to draw 2.
Fixed. Thanks again for your unvaluable help.

Offline AnonymousRevival

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg212802#msg212802
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 09:18:10 pm »
4|3 :time sounds right for a spell to draw 2.
Fixed. Thanks again for your unvaluable help.
Effects can't just be simple addition. For example, immortality. 6 :aether for immortal in which it does 4|3. Phase Dragon which doubles (8|6), costs 13 :aether.

Another reason is because you're stuffing all the good stuff in one card, and you can put 6 of them, which means you can draw a total of 18 cards.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg212835#msg212835
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2010, 09:39:24 pm »
4|3 :time sounds right for a spell to draw 2.
Fixed. Thanks again for your unvaluable help.
Effects can't just be simple addition. For example, immortality. 6 :aether for immortal in which it does 4|3. Phase Dragon which doubles (8|6), costs 13 :aether.

Another reason is because you're stuffing all the good stuff in one card, and you can put 6 of them, which means you can draw a total of 18 cards.
Effects can be simple addition unless there is a reason why they are not.
Immortal is a skill that is not simple addition. Instead it is valued as a function of the opponents desire to target it with CC which is a function of the threat [Attack+Skill Value] of the creature.
Additionally HP is not valued on a point by point basis. 1-5 HP is worth 0 quanta and 6-7 HP is worth 1 quanta.

6 cards in a row that can draw 2 cards each nets you 6 cards not 18.
6x2 (cards drawn) -6x1 (cards played) = 6x1=6.

Now for the reasoning why Drawing cards and Deck thinning are likely to be simple additions.

Card Advantage (Drawing Cards):
Unless a card is OP or UP they all have balanced cost to play. Thus the card advantage of each card is about the same because the difference in value is already accounted for in the other costs. (This is not true with every card but it is true for the majority)

Deck thinning:
Deck thinning has only been found in an added on form (Sundial, Precog). It is fair to say that we can use a Deck Thinning 1 card as the base to add more effects onto.
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Offline AnonymousRevival

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg212853#msg212853
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2010, 09:54:12 pm »
But still, having one card to draw three cards at a time should be equal to 2 cards that draw two cards because the effect is all under one card.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Yo-ho-ho | Yo-ho-ho https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16375.msg213051#msg213051
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 12:11:31 am »
But still, having one card to draw three cards at a time should be equal to 2 cards that draw two cards because the effect is all under one card.
1 Card that draws 3 cards is less valuable than 2 cards that draw 2 cards. (But only due to a reduction in deck thinning by 1)

1 draw 3 = Deck Thinning 1 and Card Drawing 2
2 draw 2 = Deck Thinning 2 and Card Drawing 2
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