Rabid Bat | Rabid Dire Bat

[TheAccuso]

Mm, I wouldn't say that...
I think we need to know what the designer had in mind for % chance to infect. I personally feel this a bit too powerful atm.
Its guaranteed 2 dmg CC per turn per bat with a chance to inflict an additional 2 stacking damage per turn to each creature hit by the CC.
Each creature affected by the secondary effect then does likewise.

2 dmg + possible 2 poison all repeatable for 2 seems a bit powerful to me.

And though it's weak defensively, that kind of works for it since it's a death card. Guess I'm saying this has far more potential to activate death effects very very quickly compared to other currently existing cards.

I agree that the infection percentage have to bee not more than 20% or the card will be OP.

[OdinVanguard]

Mm, I wouldn't say that...
I think we need to know what the designer had in mind for % chance to infect. I personally feel this a bit too powerful atm.
Its guaranteed 2 dmg CC per turn per bat with a chance to inflict an additional 2 stacking damage per turn to each creature hit by the CC.
Don't forget that this ability is as likely to target its owner's creatures as it is to target enemies. Its a double edged sword here
Each creature affected by the secondary effect then does likewise.

2 dmg + possible 2 poison all repeatable for 2 seems a bit powerful to me.

And though it's weak defensively, that kind of works for it since it's a death card. Guess I'm saying this has far more potential to activate death effects very very quickly compared to other currently existing cards.
Yes, the high death effect rate is intentional. The price is that a lot of those deaths could end up being from your own side

-It doesn't guarantee that the 2 damage CC hits your opponent though. This card hits its both allies and enemies alike. (If it hit only enemies, then I would agree that this would probably be a bit OP)

-Bats could end up biting each other. Since they have very low HP, the high CC per round would only function for a short duration unless:
1) there was a very large number of other creatures, and / or
2) you give HP buffs to the bats

-I was thinking something around 1 in 5 chance per bite to spread the disease, maybe 1 in 4 for upped version.

[Anarook]

The fact that it can hit your own creatures isn't as much of a balancing factor because it's a death card, I guess I wasn't clear on that point.
Death as an element is driven by death effects. Most death decks revolve around 1 of 3 or a combination of three cards, boneyard, bonewall, and soul catcher: if you've taken a careful look at death decks, they are typically a bit slow to start, but once they get going they're damn near impossible to stop. The slow start is an effective counter to that fact. An early play of this card would spike the play speed of a death deck, and even a late play of this card would provide a ton of fuel.
Death could certainly use something to speed it up a slight bit, but this is too much.

[OdinVanguard]

Ah, I see what you are saying now.

So essentially, hitting its own creatures is partially mitigated by the use of death effect based cards...

2 notes there:
1) it also can hit its owner (causing damage and possible poisoning)
2) if it hits itself, it effectively becomes like an overglorified spark (worse actually since a spark would have been free)

I do get the point, though, that the in element death effects may significantly mitigate the double edge sword.

If it is heavily overpowered, I can tone it down.

What do you think the best means would be?
1) Reduce bite damage to 1
2) Reduce poison inflicted to 1
3) Increase card cost
4) Something else

This link may provide some interesting input on effects with a contagion type mechanic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_modelling_of_infectious_disease

---Going back to the first point, I thought a breakdown of the probable outcomes of this mechanics first turn application would beuseful:

First off, if this is played too early (i.e. before there are many other creatures around) it will have a high probability of killing itself... The chance of this happening scale harmonically with the number of creatures in play:

Spoiler for the sake of post size:

E.g. If cast by itself it has a 1 in 3 chance of dying on its first bite (2 players plus itself = 3 potential targets).

This chance drops off harmonically (1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, ... etc) with the number of creatures in play.

For a better illustration, suppose there are N creatures on the field when this is played, with rabies proc chance of X:
Then we will have:
1 / (N+2) -> bite owner
1 / (N+2) -> bite opponent (
N-1 / (N+2) -> bite a creature other than self (CC)
1 / (N+2) -> bite self and die

For an early game example, lets assume both players get 2 creatures out by the time this comes out. Then we have:
1 / 6 -> bite owner    - bad
1 / 6 -> bite opponent  - good
2 / 6 -> bite enemy creature - good
1 / 6 -> bite ally creature - ? (depends on how cannon-fodder-like the ally is)
1 / 6 -> bite self and die - bad (might as well have used spark)

In the best case scenario, bitting any an ally other than self will be considered a neutral ouctome (lose a fodder creature, gain a skeleton):
1/6 + 2/6 = 3/6 = 50% chance to bite something good
1/6 + 1/6 = 2/6 = 33.3% chance to bite something bad
1/6 = 16.7% chance to bite an ally

Now at a 20% chance of inflicting rabies (assuming all creatures other than self can survive the bite... which may not be true)
.833 * .20 = .167 = 16.7% chance to spread rabies

So when considering balancing, the relevant questions (that I can come up with) are:
-How much is X damage to a random creature worth.
-How much is Y poison to a random creature worth
-How much are death effects worth at: early (first ~3 rounds), mid (rounds 4-6), and late (rounds 7+) stages of a game

That last one is tricky and I'm not sure where to start

A note on bite damage:
-High bite damage will favor swarm / rush counters (since losing a small creature is less than a large one)
-Low bite damage will favor stompy (single large creature) type counters (since it may lead to rapid escalation of CC dps)

[OdinVanguard]

Added a poll. Please vote to help me balance this.