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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526040#msg526040
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2012, 10:29:08 pm »
so a 7 turn win with 1 in your starting hand? and it's basically unstoppable. you can't ever get rid of this card....
No.
4 Pillars|Towers + Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass results in a turn 17|14 win. This is delayed by 1 turn if you only have 2 pillars.
Spoiler for Hidden:
T1) play
T2) sac 13|16
T3) play
T4) sac 26|32
T5) play
T6) sac 39|48
T7) play
T8) sac 52|64
T9) play
T10) sac 65|80
T11) play
T12) sac 78|96
T13) play
T14) sac 91|112
T15) play
T16) sac 104|x
PS: You can steal this to prevent damage.
Steal destroys and copies.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 01:13:15 am by OldTrees »
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Offline Anarook

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526046#msg526046
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2012, 10:36:30 pm »
Except that if im not mistaken steal has a built in destory effect and therefore you simply end up duplicating the card.
The card as is can only be temporarily countered(at best). Soft CC, or a steal that ends in it having to be played again.
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Offline blarp

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526125#msg526125
« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2012, 04:56:47 am »
so a 7 turn win with 1 in your starting hand? and it's basically unstoppable. you can't ever get rid of this card....
No.
4 Pillars|Towers + Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass results in a turn 17|14 win. This is delayed by 1 turn if you only have 2 pillars.
Spoiler for Hidden:
T1) play
T2) sac 13|16
T3) play
T4) sac 26|32
T5) play
T6) sac 39|48
T7) play
T8) sac 52|64
T9) play
T10) sac 65|80
T11) play
T12) sac 78|96
T13) play
T14) sac 91|112
T15) play
T16) sac 104|x
PS: You can steal this to prevent damage.
Steal destroys and copies.

huh. but with precogs and stuff you could speed this up no problem. also, 2 of these in a deck seems like you can never deck out if you have the time quanta for it.
My default opinion of a new card is OP. Your job as a card creator will have to be to convince me otherwise.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526167#msg526167
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2012, 07:00:58 am »
so a 7 turn win with 1 in your starting hand? and it's basically unstoppable. you can't ever get rid of this card....
No.
4 Pillars|Towers + Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass results in a turn 17|14 win. This is delayed by 1 turn if you only have 2 pillars.
Spoiler for Hidden:
T1) play
T2) sac 13|16
T3) play
T4) sac 26|32
T5) play
T6) sac 39|48
T7) play
T8) sac 52|64
T9) play
T10) sac 65|80
T11) play
T12) sac 78|96
T13) play
T14) sac 91|112
T15) play
T16) sac 104|x
PS: You can steal this to prevent damage.
Steal destroys and copies.

huh. but with precogs and stuff you could speed this up no problem. also, 2 of these in a deck seems like you can never deck out if you have the time quanta for it.
Then it would not be merely the hourglass as your shocked statement described. I do recommend to continue to try to prove it OP. (hopefully with some math involved)

2 Unstable Hourglasses + 5 :time per turn > Eternity + Photon + 3 :time per turn = anti deckout
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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Offline Cheesy111

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526197#msg526197
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2012, 08:48:51 am »
Spoiler for Hidden:
so a 7 turn win with 1 in your starting hand? and it's basically unstoppable. you can't ever get rid of this card....
No.
4 Pillars|Towers + Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass results in a turn 17|14 win. This is delayed by 1 turn if you only have 2 pillars.
Spoiler for Hidden:
T1) play
T2) sac 13|16
T3) play
T4) sac 26|32
T5) play
T6) sac 39|48
T7) play
T8) sac 52|64
T9) play
T10) sac 65|80
T11) play
T12) sac 78|96
T13) play
T14) sac 91|112
T15) play
T16) sac 104|x
PS: You can steal this to prevent damage.
Steal destroys and copies.

huh. but with precogs and stuff you could speed this up no problem. also, 2 of these in a deck seems like you can never deck out if you have the time quanta for it.
Then it would not be merely the hourglass as your shocked statement described. I do recommend to continue to try to prove it OP. (hopefully with some math involved)

2 Unstable Hourglasses + 5 :time per turn > Eternity + Photon + 3 :time per turn = anti deckout

True in most cases, but keep in mind that, barring extraordinary SoSe, a 6Eternity/6Sanctuary/6 PA 60-card deck can still be outdecked.  A deck with two of these, however, needs only a single PA'd sanctuary and then it cannot be outdecked. 

Offline choongmyoung

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526239#msg526239
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2012, 01:51:28 pm »
no deckout. great.
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg526371#msg526371
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2012, 07:46:26 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
2 Unstable Hourglasses + 5 :time per turn > Eternity + Photon + 3 :time per turn = anti deckout

True in most cases, but keep in mind that, barring extraordinary SoSe, a 6Eternity/6Sanctuary/6 PA 60-card deck can still be outdecked.  A deck with two of these, however, needs only a single PA'd sanctuary and then it cannot be outdecked.
Both need a PA's pillar stack (4 pillars > 2pillars).
Both need a single PA'd Sanctuary.
Eternity uses 2 Eternities (to prevent eternity being the last card) + 1 photon + 1 PA
UH uses 2 Unstable Hourglasses.

Total:
Eternity: 3PA + 2 Eternity + 2 Time Factories + 1 Sanctuary +1 Photon = 9 cards
UH: 2PA + 2 Unstable Hourglasses + 4 Time Factories + 1 Sanctuary = 9 cards
Both can be outdecked by 1 method: Shard of Bravery.
Eternity can also be outdecked by Antideckout + Voodoo Doll + Freeze.
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Offline Cheesy111

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Re: Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37290.msg527442#msg527442
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2012, 07:35:27 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
2 Unstable Hourglasses + 5 :time per turn > Eternity + Photon + 3 :time per turn = anti deckout

True in most cases, but keep in mind that, barring extraordinary SoSe, a 6Eternity/6Sanctuary/6 PA 60-card deck can still be outdecked.  A deck with two of these, however, needs only a single PA'd sanctuary and then it cannot be outdecked.
Both need a PA's pillar stack (4 pillars > 2pillars).
Both need a single PA'd Sanctuary.
Eternity uses 2 Eternities (to prevent eternity being the last card) + 1 photon + 1 PA
UH uses 2 Unstable Hourglasses.

Total:
Eternity: 3PA + 2 Eternity + 2 Time Factories + 1 Sanctuary +1 Photon = 9 cards
UH: 2PA + 2 Unstable Hourglasses + 4 Time Factories + 1 Sanctuary = 9 cards
Both can be outdecked by 1 method: Shard of Bravery.
Eternity can also be outdecked by Antideckout + Voodoo Doll + Freeze.

Incorrect, no?  Eternity needs 3 Time Factories to prevent deckout, and UH need 5(play cost = 4, ability cost = 1).  Equivalent card cost, and UH cannot be outdecked by voodoo freeze or ice bolt freeze. 

EDIT: Never mind, I think you assumed mark of Time.  That would change things.

 

blarg: