Unstable Hourglass | Broken Hourglass

[OldTrees]

I thought you had the answer of [Y] and [Z] in mind. My mistake.

So you actually want me to tell you what [Y] and [Z] is for this card , and this is not some sort of quiz ?

It is a quiz in that there is a correct answer. However it is not a quiz in that I do not know the correct answer. What I want is for you to tell me what [Y] and [Z] would be balanced. From there I can derive the balanced casting cost. The idea is to start from balance and work backward to determine how much your card should cost.

[waterzx]

For [Z] :

You need to play UH for 4 and then trigger it for 1 in the next turn. So on average, the "upkeep" cost per turn is 2.5


For[Y] :

For simplicity, assume UH deals 14 damage for each self-destruct. Since UH is idle for one turn before it is used, so on average, 7 damage is dealt to opponent each turn.

Compare UH and Titan, both of them deal 7 damage each turn. So [Y] should be the same for UH and Titan

Hence, [Y] = 5 + 1 card + the cost equivalent to a weapon slot

[Cheesy111]

For [Z] :

You need to play UH for 4 and then trigger it for 1 in the next turn. So on average, the "upkeep" cost per turn is 2.5


For[Y] :

For simplicity, assume UH deals 14 damage for each self-destruct. Since UH is idle for one turn before it is used, so on average, 7 damage is dealt to opponent each turn.

Compare UH and Titan, both of them deal 7 damage each turn. So [Y] should be the same for UH and Titan

Hence, [Y] = 5 + 1 card + the cost equivalent to a weapon slot

Consider that UH does not have to be idle for one turn before it is used with even one Hourglass or Nymph(in-element).  It only has one turn of guaranteed downtime (the first turn it's played).  I'm not sure if OldTrees was thinking about this at all, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

[OldTrees]

For [Z] :

You need to play UH for 4 and then trigger it for 1 in the next turn. So on average, the "upkeep" cost per turn is 2.5


For[Y] :

For simplicity, assume UH deals 14 damage for each self-destruct. Since UH is idle for one turn before it is used, so on average, 7 damage is dealt to opponent each turn.

Compare UH and Titan, both of them deal 7 damage each turn. So [Y] should be the same for UH and Titan

Hence, [Y] = 5 + 1 card + the cost equivalent to a weapon slot

So [Y] = 5 + 1 card + Weapon ~= 9 cost units.

However you did not answer what [Z] is. You merely gave the current per turn cost of Unstable Hourglass. That was not the question.
New question related to [Z]:
Crimson Dragon costs 10 . If it were redesigned to cost [C]  per turn, what would a balance value for [C] be?

[waterzx]

New question related to [Z]:
Crimson Dragon costs 10 . If it were redesigned to cost [C]  per turn, what would a balance value for [C] be?

Assume the dragon would be on field for 5 turns for an average game (from my experience), then [C] should be 2

[OldTrees]

New question related to [Z]:
Crimson Dragon costs 10 . If it were redesigned to cost [C]  per turn, what would a balance value for [C] be?

Assume the dragon would be on field for 5 turns for an average game (from my experience), then [C] should be 2

A card with a per turn cost can be played earlier thus having a higher resilience than its one time cost counterpart.

[waterzx]

A card with a per turn cost can be played earlier thus having a higher resilience than its one time cost counterpart.

Assume you need 3 turns to get 10 for a dragon

In an average game of 10 turns, the dragon is in play for 7 turns.

so it is 1 for an average of 7 damage per turn throughout the whole game.

If the dragon only needs an upkeep cost but no playing cost , it can be played at the first turn.

so the dragon can be on field for 10 turns, and deal 10 damage per turn.

Hence 10/7 = [C]/1, and [C] = 1.42

[OldTrees]

A card with a per turn cost can be played earlier thus having a higher resilience than its one time cost counterpart.

Assume you need 3 turns to get 10 for a dragon

In an average game of 10 turns, the dragon is in play for 7 turns.

so it is 1 for an average of 7 damage per turn throughout the whole game.

If the dragon only needs an upkeep cost but no playing cost , it can be played at the first turn.

so the dragon can be on field for 10 turns, and deal 10 damage per turn.

Hence 10/7 = [C]/1, and [C] = 1.42

So your theory is that the per turn cost [Z] is balanced when it equals Casting Cost / (Normal Duration + Turns required to obtain casting cost)
I think this a good theory. However it did not count the increased duration of Crimson Dragon towards the cost. As it turns out the increased value should be countered by having to pay the cost longer.

10/5 is balanced with 14/7
14/7 = [C]/1
[C] = 2

So we return to the theory that:
per turn cost [Z] is balanced when it equals Casting Cost / (Normal Duration)

How long is the Normal Duration [N] for a standard permanent like Shard of Gratitude?
Is it similar to 6 turns?

Unstable Hourglass:
Casting Cost [Y] / Normal Duration [N] = per turn cost [Z]
per turn cost [Z] * 2 =  per 2 turns cost [Z₂]
per 2 turns cost [Z₂] -1 = quanta upkeep cost per 2 turns +1 card per 2 turns

9 / 6 = 1.5
1.5 * 2 = 3
3-1 = 2 + 1 draw

Unstable Hourglass
Casting Cost: 1 + 1 draw
Activation Cost: 1

You obviously will want to inflate the casting cost slightly to pay for the anti deckout. Currently antideckout costs 3 per turn.

Unstable Hourglass
Casting Cost: 4 + 1 draw
Activation Cost: 1

Interesting coincidence. Your pretheoretical estimation was accurate. This is a good sign.

[waterzx]

So, do I still need some changes to this card ?

And,

10/5 is balanced with 14/7
14/7 = [C]/1
[C] = 2

Where does the 5 come from ?

[OldTrees]

So, do I still need some changes to this card ?

And,

10/5 is balanced with 14/7
14/7 = [C]/1
[C] = 2

Where does the 5 come from ?

No changes needed.

When Crimson Dragon is able to be played earlier, it goes from 5 to 7 turns of damage.
Cost for 5 turns / 5 turns = Cost for 7 turns / 7 turns.

[Ovadosin]

very clever variation of unstable gas this + Golden Hourglasses would dominate

[blarp]

so a 7 turn win with 1 in your starting hand? and it's basically unstoppable. you can't ever get rid of this card....