Swarm | Swarm

[OldTrees]

because it allows a deck that is all eternal cards and quanta producers, that is able to fill its field with creatures incredibly fast. it makes empathatic bond decks be able to reach ridiculous amounts of healing in riciculous amounts of time. because a deck with one of each of the elements of eternal spells, and 18 quanta towers would be incredibly fast and deadly. because of a lot of reasons.

Ah.
1) There is a saying that the primary cost and primary benefit should not be the same currency. (Hence why I used Photon in the example rather than Ray of Light)
2) If the Empathic bond decks would be OP then a simple increase in casting cost to the eternal spell would solve that.
3) Eternal spells are supposed to have a negative discard effect to nerf Eternal Rainbow
4) Eternal spells are more quanta intensive than other cards and only become efficient after the 7th use. Speed Rainbow would not use Eternal Spells.
More reasons? (Thank you for helping improve Eternal Spells)

[ZephyrPhantom]

Okay, so OldTrees and I tested an upgraded 4 Swarm card against an upgraded 4 Ghorapines. Rush, with the results indicating that a Swarm Healing stall doesn't do very well even if a Rush has a bad start.

OldTrees 2 - Zblader 0

Spoiler for Game 1 - Loss:

~Player 1~ | Zblader | Life Mark | 79 HP | - Cards Remaining | 0/0 Poison/Purify Counters |
Hand:  33
Deck Order :  4 6 1 24 14 12 22 7 2 33 5 8 20 31 29 27 23 26 15 28 25 17 30 3 18 32 9 10 16 19 13 21 11
Quanta:
Entropy:0    Water:0
Death:0       Light:0
Gravity:0     Air:0
Earth:0       Time:0
Life:8          Darkness:0   
Fire:0         Aether:0
 
Creatures:
Locust 1x4 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1x4 HP each turn. Adrenaline.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | 4 Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
 
 
Permanents:
8 x Life Towers - Generate each turn. Gen when played.
Jade Shield : Shield: reduce damage by 2. Spells are reflected against your opponent. Can not be destroyed or stolen.
Feral Bond Every creature in your possession heals you for 1 HP at the end of every turn
Feral Bond Every creature in your possession heals you for 1 HP at the end of every turn
-----------------------------
Current events:
Event Organizer Cards : 0 (No Events will occur for this battle.)
Upped Cards Allowed? : Yes
Example    Move : I play  Long Sword (6 | 2, Weapon Slot, Other) for 1 quantum   and  Horned Frog (3  | 3 , Creature, Life) for 2 Life quantum.
Short   hand example: OT:  Draw  #4, Play Longsword #4 End Turn. Generate 3   Light (Pends ->  Life) and  Heal 4 HP. Naesala takes 6 damage.

    Player 2 (OT) Goes first.

    OT: Play 2 Life Pendulums [21, 28], End turn, Gain 2 L 1 F

    Z: Draw 22, Plays Life Towers 1,4,6,12 (+4 Li), end turn. (+5 Li)

    OT: Draw 11, Play Horned Frog[11], Deal 3 damage, end turn +3F

    Z: (97 HP left) Draw 7 (+1 Li), play Jade Shield 14 (-7 Li), end turn. (+6 Li)

    OT:Draw 19, Play Life Pendulum[19], Play Adrenaline [7] and Ghorapine [6], deal 1+1+1+1+5=9 damage, gain 3L 1 F

    Z: (86 HP left) Draw 2, Play Life Tower 2 (+1 Li). End Turn (+7 Li)

    OT:Draw 20, Play 20 Life Pendulum, deal 9 damage, gain 5 F

    Z:  (75 HP left) Draw 33, Activate Swarm 33 4x Times (eternal, -16 Li, 4x  Locust created.) End turn, Heal +4 HP (79 Left), Deal 4 damage, and gain  + 7 Li.

    OT:(96 hp) Draw and play Ghorapines [1], deal 1+1+1+1+5+6=15 damage, gain 4L 1F

    Z:  (64 HP) Draw and Play Life Tower 5 (+1 Li) Cast Feral Bond 22 (-4 Li)  and Epipherine on Locust #1 (-3 Li). End turn, Deal 7 damage, heal 7 + 4  HP. (75 HP). Gain 8 Li.

    OT:(89 hp) Draw and play Adrenaline [9], deal 1+1+1+1+5+1+1+1+9=21 damage, gain 5F

    Z:  (54 HP) Draw  and play Life Tower 8 (+1 Li). Activate Swarm 33 2x  times. (eternal, -8 Li, 2x Locust Created.) End turn, Deal 9 damage,  heal 9 + 6 HP (69 HP). Gain 9 Li.

    OT:(80 hp) Draw and play Horned Frog [13], Play Ghorapines [5,4], deal 21+1+11+12=45 damage, gain 4L 1F

    Z:  (9 HP) Draw and play Feral Bond 20 (-4 Li), activate Swarm 33 2x times  (eternal, -8 Li, 2x Locust created.) End turn, Deal 11 damage, heal 11 +  8 + 8 =27 HP (36 HP) Gain 9 Li.

    OT:(69 hp) Draw 14, deal 21+1+11+12=45 damage, gain 5F

    Z: 0 HP Loses.

    Conclusions:

    Z:  Healing might be necessary for Locust to function competently in a  stall deck IMHO. May have thematic issues, but removing healing  certainly removes a core part of the reason the card is successful in  terms of stalling in the first place.

    OT:  The healing is not sufficient to use as a defesnse without further  support. Thorn Carapace might have helped more. Alternativelly a second  element could be used as a primary defense. To be fair, the DR + Healing  would have been more useful against a slower deck type.  True. I'm interested in the fact that this lost to nerfed Ghorapines -  does that signify UP-ness or just need to reform the deck?  Ghorapines was OP (earlier playtest). The nerf seemed to balance the  deck. I think this does suggest the Locust deck needs to be reformed for  more accurate testing. Ok.

    Match will be archived as soon as I'm ready with the new Locust deck.

-----------------------------
 
~Player 2~ | OldTrees | - Mark | 89 HP | - Cards Remaining | 0/0 Poison/Purify Counters |
Hand: 17 14,-, -, -, -, -, -
Deck Order: 17 21 5 6 4 28 7 11 19 20 1 9 13 14 3 24 29 27 18 26 22 12 15 16 30 23 10 2 25 8
 
Quanta:
Entropy:0    Water:0
Death:0       Light:0
Gravity:0     Air:0
Earth:0       Time:0
Life:7          Darkness:0   
Fire:6         Aether:0     
 
Creatures:
3|3 Adrenal Horned Frog  Expected damage 1+1+1+1
3|2 Adrenal Ghorapines   Expected damage 5+1+1+1
3|2 Ghorapines               Expected damage 9
3|3 Horned Frog              Expected damage 1
3|2 Ghorapines               Expected damage 11
3|2 Ghorapines               Expected damage 12
 
Permanents:
- 4 Life Pendulums
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Player 1's Deck
Deck : Upped
Mitosis Represents Swarm : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41134.0.html (3 | 4 version)
7ac  7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ak 7ak 7al 7al 7am 7am  7am 7am 7am 7am 7an 7an 7an 7an 7an 7an 7ap 7ap 7ap 7ap 7ap 7ap 8pn
1-13 Emerald Tower
14-15 Jade Shield
16-17 Jade Staff
18-23 Feral Bond
24-29 Epipherine
30-35 Swarm
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Player 2's Deck
[1-6] 6 Ghorapines (For Reference : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28450.0.html  Using 5 | 4 version.)
[7-10] 4 Adrenaline
[11-14] 4 Horned Frogs
[15-16] 2 Deflagrations
[17] 1 Fire Bolts
[18-30] 13 Life Pendulums
Fire Mark

Tried my best to outheal him with only Locusts and Emphatic Bonds, but got outrushed pretty easily despite an early Jade Shield. Relying on Locust + EB alone is not practical for a stall deck.

Spoiler for Game 2 - Loss:

~Player 1~ | Zblader | Light Mark | 148 HP | - Cards Remaining | 0/0 Poison/Purify Counters |
Hand:  17 18 35 39 4
Deck Order : 22 37 5 1 24 17 18 35 21 38 7 29 8 34 39 3 4 25 26 13 31 19 11 20 32 33 40 15 9 23 12 16 10 27 30 6 36 2 28 14
Quanta:
Entropy:0    Water:0
Death:0       Light:7
Gravity:0     Air:0
Earth:0       Time:0
Life:0         Darkness:0   
Fire:0         Aether:0
 
Creatures:
X=13 HP
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Leaf Dragon 1 | 3   1Lt :Photosynthesis Gain 2L  . This skill can be used multiple times per turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Leaf Dragon 1 | 3   1Lt :Photosynthesis Gain 2L  . This skill can be used multiple times per turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Locust 1 | X Swarm: X = number of Locusts you control at the end of the turn. Heals its owner 1 HP each turn.
Permanents:
5x Life Pendulum (Lt Mode)
 Sanctuary - Heal 4 Hp, protect quanta and hand on enemy turn.
 Sanctuary - Heal 4 Hp, protect quanta and hand on enemy turn.
-----------------------------
Current events:
Event Organizer Cards : 0 (No Events will occur for this battle.)
Upped Cards Allowed? : Yes
Example    Move : I play  Long Sword (6 | 2, Weapon Slot, Other) for 1 quantum   and  Horned Frog (3  | 3 , Creature, Life) for 2 Life quantum.
Short   hand example: OT:  Draw  #4, Play Longsword #4 End Turn. Generate 3   Light (Pends ->  Life) and  Heal 4 HP. Naesala takes 6 damage.

    Player 1 (Zblader) Goes first.

    Z: Plays Life Pendulums 22,24 (+2 Life). End turn, gain +2 Life +1 Light.

    OT:Draw 20, Play 3 Life Pendulums [26,28,20], play Horned frog[13], deal 3 damage, end turn, gain 3L 1 F

    Z: (97 HP) Draw 18,  activate Swarm 37 (Eternal -4L 1xLocust). End turn, deal 1 damage. gain +3 Lt (Light) and Heal 1 HP (98)

    OT:(99 hp) Draw 16, Play Adrenaline [10], deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 4F

    Z: (86 HP) Draw 35, Play Sanctuary 37 (-3 Lt), end turn gain 2L 1 Lt Deal 1 damage and heal 4+1 HP. (91 HP)

    OT:(98 hp) Draw and play Life Pendulum [21], deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 4L 1F

    Z:  (79 Hp) Draw and play Life Pendulum 21 (+1 L), play Leaf Dragon 5 (-1  L) Play Shard of Divinity 1 (+24 Max -> 103 HP, -2 L -1 Li). End  turn, deal 2 damage, heal 5 HP (108 HP). Gain 4 Lt.

    OT:(96 hp) Draw and play Life Pendulum [19], deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 6F

    Z:  (96 HP) Draw 38. Use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 5x (5 Lt -> 10 L).  Activate Swarm 17 2x (Eternal, 2x Locust, -8L). End turn, gain 3 L 1 Lt.  Deal 4 damage and heal 7 HP (103 HP)

    OT:(92 hp) Draw 9, deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 5L 1F

    Z:  (91 HP) Draw 7, use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 1x (1 Lt -> 2  L),Activate Swarm 17 1x (Eternal, 1x Locust, -4L). Play Leaf Dragon  7.(-1L). End Turn gain 4 Lt. Deal 6 damage and heal 8 HP (99 HP)

    OT:(86 hp) Draw and play Life Pendulum [22], deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 7F

    Z:  (87 HP) Draw and play Life Pend 29 (+1 L ), Play Sanctuary 38 (-3 Lt),  use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 1x (1 Lt -> 2 L) Activate Swarm 17 1x  (Eternal, 1x Locust, -4L). End Turn gain 4 L 1 Lt. Deal 7 damage and  heal 13 HP (112 HP).

    OT:(79 hp) Draw and play Life Pendulum [29], deal 3+3+3+3=12 damage gain 7L + 1F

    Z:  (100 HP) Draw 8.  use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 1x (1 Lt -> 2 L),  Play Thorn Carapace 8 (-7 L). End Turn gain 5 Lt. Deal 7 damage and heal  13 HP (113 HP).

    OT:(72 hp) Draw and play Ghorapines [6], Play Explosion (Shield) [15], Play Adrenaline [9], deal 3+3+3+3+7+3+3+3=28 damage, gain 8F

    Z:  (72 HP)Draw and Play Life Pendulum 34, use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis  5x (5 Lt -> 10 L). Activate Swarm 17 2x (Eternal, 2x Locust, -8L).   End Turn gain 5 L, 1 Lt. Deal 9 damage and heal 15 HP (97 HP).

    OT: (63 hp) Draw [7], deal 3+3+3+3+7+3+3+3=28 damage, gain 7L + 1F

    Z:  (69 HP) Draw 39,Activate Swarm 17 2x (Eternal, 2x Locust, -8L), use  Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 1x (1 Lt -> 2 L).   End Turn gain 6 Lt.  Deal 11 damage and heal 17 HP (86 HP).

    OT: (52 hp) Draw and play Ghorapines [3], play adrenaline [7], deal 28+11+3+3+3=48 damage, gain 8F

    Z: (38  HP) Draw 3, use Leaf Dragon's Photosyntheis 6x (6 Lt -> 12 L)  Activate Swarm 17 2x (Eternal, 2x Locust, -8L).Play Shard of Divinity 3  (+24 Max -> 62 HP, -3 L). End Turn gain 5 L, 1 Lt. Deal 13 damage and  heal 19 HP (81 HP).

    OT:(39 hp 3 turns left) Draw and play Horned Frog [11], deal 48+3=51 damage, gain 7L +1F

    Z: (30 HP) Draw 4.Activate Swarm 17 2x (Eternal, 2x Locust, -8L). End Turn gain 6 Lt. Deal 15 damage and heal 21 HP (51 HP).

    OT: (24 hp) Draw 1, deal 48+3=51 damage, gain 8F

    Z: (0 HP) Loses.

    Conclusion:

    Z: Better than last time for my deck, I ended up 2 turns short of winning. Still, healing seems subpar at best.

    OT:  That was a close match. My deck had a bad series of draws. I think this  counteracted the initial advantage that this type of Rush has over  healing. This was a close enough game that I think the cards (-|4 Swarm  and -|4 Ghorapines) are probably equal. This was only 1 game though.  True, I'm not really sure that repeat matches against a rush would  indicate anything further for either card. Do you suggest further  testing w/similar conditions or change aspects? (such as upped ->  unupped or Alter one card's cost/stats/effect etc...) I would suggest Stall vs Stall next. (OTK vs Healing Stall is a waste of time to test) Sounds good.

    -----------------------------

 
~Player 2~ | OldTrees | - Mark | 100 HP | - Cards Remaining | 0/0 Poison/Purify Counters |
Hand: 16 - 17, -,  - , -
Decklist: 10 13 26 15 17 28 20 16 18 21 19 9 22 29 6 7 3 11 1 14 12 4 2 30 5 27 8 25 23 24
 
Quanta:
Entropy:0    Water:0
Death:0       Light:0
Gravity:0     Air:0
Earth:0       Time:0
Life:25          Darkness:0   
Fire:29         Aether:0     
 
Creatures:
3|3 Adrenal Horned Frog    Expected damage 3+3+3+3
3|2 Adrenal Ghorapines     Expected damage 7+3+3+3
3|2 Adrenal Ghorapines     Expected damage 11+3+3+3
3|3 Horned Frog                Expected damage 3
Permanents:
7 Life Pendulums
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Player 1's Deck
Deck : Upped
Mitosis Represents Swarm : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41134.0.html (3 | 4 version)
6rm  6rm 6rm 7af 7af 7af 7af  7aj 7aj 7al 7al 7am 7am 7am 7am 7ap 7ap 7ap  7ap 7ap 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu  7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7k2 7k6  7k6 7k6 7k6 7k6 8pq
1-3 Shard of Divinity
4-7 Leaf Dragon
8-9 Thorn Carapace
10-11 Jade Staff
12-15 Feral Bond
16-20 Swarm
21-34 Life Pendulum
35 Improved Miracle
36-40 Sanctuary
Mark of Light
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Player 2's Deck
[1-6] 6 Ghorapines (For Reference : http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28450.0.html  Using 5 | 4 version.)
[7-10] 4 Adrenaline
[11-14] 4 Horned Frogs
[15-16] 2 Deflagrations
[17] 1 Fire Bolts
[18-30] 13 Life Pendulums
Fire Mark

Used a Leaf Dragon/Sanctuary/Locust Stall. Match was closer this time but I came two turns short of winning despite OT starting with a bad hand.

Current Conclusion : Healing is necessary for Swarm to be at least competent in a stall.
Future Testing Plans : SwarmStall vs. Another Stall (OTK vs. Stall is likely a waste of time given that OTK will likely succeed even if Max HP+ cards are present.)

[jawdirk]

Okay, so OldTrees and I tested an upgraded 4 Swarm card against an upgraded 4 Ghorapines. Rush, with the results indicating that a Swarm Healing stall doesn't do very well even if a Rush has a bad start.

I don't suppose you noticed during your play testing whether swarm was boring or not?

[OldTrees]

Okay, so OldTrees and I tested an upgraded 4 Swarm card against an upgraded 4 Ghorapines. Rush, with the results indicating that a Swarm Healing stall doesn't do very well even if a Rush has a bad start.

I don't suppose you noticed during your play testing whether swarm was boring or not?

The particular decks tested were not very interactive. However this was a character of the decks rather than the card. I found the second game to be particularly tense. (End game comebacks are like that) I think the Swarm deck had a few tough decisions it had to make during the game.

[ARTHANASIOS]

I really like this card! Thumbs up here! 

[Captain Scibra]

I really like this.  Reminds me of the Retract ability for Ederon cards (though they were often heavily imbalanced, since the rare structure skews meta without a resource system).  Swarm deserves 4 or 5 cost.  Not only can it not be destroyed in the current meta like a Pharaoh or Firefly Queen, but it also can be cast multiple times a turn.  Upgraded I think can be cheaper, as the healing is equal to the -1 or -2 for an upgrade, especially comparing it to Purify.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I really like this.  Reminds me of the Retract ability for Ederon cards (though they were often heavily imbalanced, since the rare structure skews meta without a resource system).  Swarm deserves 4 or 5 cost.  Not only can it not be destroyed in the current meta like a Pharaoh or Firefly Queen, but it also can be cast multiple times a turn.  Upgraded I think can be cheaper, as the healing is equal to the -1 or -2 for an upgrade, especially comparing it to Purify.

Not so sure about a cost increase to 5 - the above battles demonstrate that an 4 Swarm (with Healing since it was upgraded) in a stall is pretty ineffective against a well-constructed rush (Relying on Swarm/Bonds/Adren was too slow in Game 1 and Game 2's Swarm + Bonds + Sanctuary lost despite OldTrees getting a bad start). In addition, any extra copies of Swarm you draw after the first become dead draws, unlike FFQ/Pharoah who can increase the spawn rate or at least serve as strong cannon fodder/resuppliers in case of AoE CC.

I'm currently leaning towards lowering upgraded Swarm to 3 (The 4 version had the aforementioned speed issues) unless it proves capable against another Stall (which would hopefully be what gets playtested next, though I'm not sure if I can find find the time myself to get a match done. As always, if anyone else wants to playtest feel free to volunteer or PM Me and OldTrees.)

[ZephyrPhantom]

Bump for additional discussion prior to Crucible submission. I would appreciate your thoughts.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Thanks everyone for voting this to the Forge!

Keep up the support!

[summerz88]

I like the card but I think its far too strong and cheap, make it a permanent rather than a spell and I'd be happy, or make it cost 4 for upgraded and only once per turn >.<'. Synergy with already existing heals in life is very strong.

[OldTrees]

I like the card but I think its far too strong and cheap, make it a permanent rather than a spell and I'd be happy, or make it cost 4 for upgraded and only once per turn >.<'. Synergy with already existing heals in life is very strong.

1 + 1 card is ~= 3
Locust costs 1 + 1 card
Swarm costs 3 per Locust + 1 card

I do not see how the upgrade of healing 1hp total per locust per turn deserves a cost hike. Usually such a weak upgrade would receive a cost reduction as well. The only reason it doesn't receive a cost reduction is the synergy between the minor healing and Eternal.