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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: Rutarete on June 08, 2011, 11:24:19 pm

Title: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on June 08, 2011, 11:24:19 pm
(http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/chaitori/stopwatch5.png)
(http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/chaitori/stopwatch6.png)
NAME:
Stopwatch
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
2 :time
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Produce :aether :time when anything becomes delayed and freed from a form of delay.
NAME:
Stopwatch
ELEMENT:
Time
COST:
1 :time
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Produce :aether :time when anything becomes delayed and freed from a form of delay.
ART:
Royaltyfreeart.com (slightly edited by Rutarete)
IDEA:
Rutarete
NOTES:
It's got good synergy with  :earth (Basilisk Blood, Vanadium Warden), :water (freeze), :time (turtle shield), and :aether (silence). Any others i'm missing?
This is for the Duality's Legacy Comp.
Edit: I guess it works kind of well with Pandemonium. Maybe.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Flayne on June 09, 2011, 12:42:39 am
This would be magnificent with turle shell + GoTP + Parallel universe.
i like  :P
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Essence on June 09, 2011, 05:35:43 pm
Very clever.  Fun with Vanadium Warden as well, which would activate this twice (once because it delays itself and once because it delays the opponent's creature.)  :earth / :time / :aether trios FTW!
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on June 09, 2011, 10:22:46 pm
Very clever.  Fun with Vanadium Warden as well, which would activate this twice (once because it delays itself and once because it delays the opponent's creature.)  :earth / :time / :aether trios FTW!
Thanks. Adding Vanadium Warden to the notes.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: doublecross on July 13, 2011, 09:16:39 pm
I quite like this one. Why does silence count though?

Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: ddevans96 on July 14, 2011, 12:17:51 am
For the record, frozen and delayed are not the same thing, even though they basically have the same effect.

I quite like this one. Why does silence count though?
Because it delays the elemental himself :)
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on July 14, 2011, 12:32:37 am
I will maybe (at some point in the next month) remove the :aether producing part of the card, making it a mono- :time generator. RL's getting busy.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: doublecross on July 14, 2011, 04:58:19 pm
I like the :aether producing part though...
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on July 14, 2011, 08:54:02 pm
I like the :aether producing part though...
Really?

If enough people like it I'll keep it. For the Duality's Legacy comp. it was suggested that this would be better off mono.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: ddevans96 on July 14, 2011, 09:39:55 pm
I also like the aether production part of it - it could give anubis slightly more use.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Higurashi on July 14, 2011, 11:34:18 pm
It seems expensive for a situational quanta producer. Usually you want alternative quanta production to be quanta acceleration: i.e. happen fast, or grant you different kinds of quanta for one card (without conditions though). As this needs to fulfil a condition to do anything at all, and won't generally be something you choose to play first if you're low on quanta due to the fact that you probably have other threats to deal with first, this would probably need to cost 2->1 to even approach being competitive.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on July 15, 2011, 12:58:17 am
It seems expensive for a situational quanta producer. Usually you want alternative quanta production to be quanta acceleration: i.e. happen fast, or grant you different kinds of quanta for one card (without conditions though). As this needs to fulfil a condition to do anything at all, and won't generally be something you choose to play first if you're low on quanta due to the fact that you probably have other threats to deal with first, this would probably need to cost 2->1 to even approach being competitive.
Considering how common Delay mechanics are used in game (especially permafrost), the opponent will half the time fulfill the condition for you at least half the time.
I'll lower the cost if someone seconds your opinion.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: doublecross on July 15, 2011, 03:50:17 am
I say don't lower the cost. Partially because I agree with what was just said, and partially because I hate how almost every new card tries to be in the top 50% most powerful.
I would welcome new cards that are slightly UP, for they add complexity without necessarily forcing strategy changes for established players.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on July 17, 2011, 05:52:35 pm
This will be put on hold for 3 weeks for RL activities.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Qwandri on July 17, 2011, 08:12:52 pm
This is quite an entertaining idea, but I'm not sure it'd get much use, because by the time you get enough quanta to consistently delay the enemy's creatures, you might not need the quanta produced by this card. I do see some uses, but my problem is with eventual efficiency.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on August 08, 2011, 03:33:06 am
This is quite an entertaining idea, but I'm not sure it'd get much use, because by the time you get enough quanta to consistently delay the enemy's creatures, you might not need the quanta produced by this card. I do see some uses, but my problem is with eventual efficiency.
If you want consistent delay with this card, add Silence, Dim. Shield or Turtle Shield, etc. Unless It's in the Arena at an FG level or just plainly mid-late game, I don't think you'd be able to use it consistently much. But don't forget that those 3 turns of delay save you the time to use the next one.
Is the cost too high?
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: The_Mormegil on August 08, 2011, 07:52:07 am
Let's try to approach this a bit more mathematically...

This produces two quanta for every activation. Every card delaying or frozing something activates this twice, effectively netting 4 quanta (over time). To produce 4 quanta (of two different elements) every turn this would need to cost 3 / 2. But, the request for an additional card to start the combo requires a cost reduction of -1 to -2. The possibility to activate this more than once per turn and the fact that quanta is generated over time rather than all together I think balance out, as this is not really an accelerator. In fact, this might qualify as a "stall quanta generator" (which the IF has been searching for a bit now). I'd price it at 2 / 1 or even 1 / 0, it should be tested to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Xenocidius on January 04, 2012, 08:13:51 am
CURATOR COMMENT
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Elbirn on January 04, 2012, 09:35:34 pm
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on January 04, 2012, 09:52:37 pm
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
Soul Catcher is a good example for comparison. By 'maffs' do you mean 'Wall of math text'?
Stopwatch produces a duo-output. Soul Catcher produces a mono-output. Doesn't the duo warrant +cost? Also, if the unupped cost 0, what change would you make for the upgraded? The same as Soul Catcher?
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 04, 2012, 10:06:23 pm
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
Soul Catcher is a good example for comparison. By 'maffs' do you mean 'Wall of math text'?
Stopwatch produces a duo-output. Soul Catcher produces a mono-output. Doesn't the duo warrant +cost? Also, if the unupped cost 0, what change would you make for the upgraded? The same as Soul Catcher?
While it does warrant +cost for being a duo, that gets balanced by the fact that it's more situational than Soul Catcher (which can run pure mono and works with more cards) and that it forces a duo to be fully effective. I'd recommend changing the cost to 1  :time | 1  :rainbow .
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on January 04, 2012, 10:25:31 pm
Of these following, which cost do you prefer? is best?
1. 2 :time | 1 :time
2. 1 :time | 0
3. 1 :time | 1 :rainbow
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Elbirn on January 05, 2012, 12:14:03 am
Option 2, definitely.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Rutarete on January 05, 2012, 10:08:26 pm
The most common so far is 2 | 1, so I'll probably update it later today.
Title: Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch
Post by: Bobbunny on January 05, 2012, 11:07:27 pm
I approve. Although it does have a bit of a lack of use from some decks, it can be synergize well with a few others. Also very creative.
blarg: