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Offline doublecross

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg366276#msg366276
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 03:50:17 am »
I say don't lower the cost. Partially because I agree with what was just said, and partially because I hate how almost every new card tries to be in the top 50% most powerful.
I would welcome new cards that are slightly UP, for they add complexity without necessarily forcing strategy changes for established players.
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Offline RutareteTopic starter

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg367460#msg367460
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 05:52:35 pm »
This will be put on hold for 3 weeks for RL activities.
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Offline Qwandri

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg367522#msg367522
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 08:12:52 pm »
This is quite an entertaining idea, but I'm not sure it'd get much use, because by the time you get enough quanta to consistently delay the enemy's creatures, you might not need the quanta produced by this card. I do see some uses, but my problem is with eventual efficiency.
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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg377092#msg377092
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2011, 03:33:06 am »
This is quite an entertaining idea, but I'm not sure it'd get much use, because by the time you get enough quanta to consistently delay the enemy's creatures, you might not need the quanta produced by this card. I do see some uses, but my problem is with eventual efficiency.
If you want consistent delay with this card, add Silence, Dim. Shield or Turtle Shield, etc. Unless It's in the Arena at an FG level or just plainly mid-late game, I don't think you'd be able to use it consistently much. But don't forget that those 3 turns of delay save you the time to use the next one.
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg377136#msg377136
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2011, 07:52:07 am »
Let's try to approach this a bit more mathematically...

This produces two quanta for every activation. Every card delaying or frozing something activates this twice, effectively netting 4 quanta (over time). To produce 4 quanta (of two different elements) every turn this would need to cost 3 / 2. But, the request for an additional card to start the combo requires a cost reduction of -1 to -2. The possibility to activate this more than once per turn and the fact that quanta is generated over time rather than all together I think balance out, as this is not really an accelerator. In fact, this might qualify as a "stall quanta generator" (which the IF has been searching for a bit now). I'd price it at 2 / 1 or even 1 / 0, it should be tested to see how it plays out.
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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445117#msg445117
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2012, 08:13:51 am »
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Offline Elbirn

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445397#msg445397
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 09:35:34 pm »
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
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Offline RutareteTopic starter

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445405#msg445405
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 09:52:37 pm »
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
Soul Catcher is a good example for comparison. By 'maffs' do you mean 'Wall of math text'?
Stopwatch produces a duo-output. Soul Catcher produces a mono-output. Doesn't the duo warrant +cost? Also, if the unupped cost 0, what change would you make for the upgraded? The same as Soul Catcher?
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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445416#msg445416
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 10:06:23 pm »
I second making this card cost 1 or even 0 quanta.

I have basically no knowledge, thoughtful insight, or maffs to dazzle you with. But an example: Soulcatcher is a 0 quanta cost card that generates  :death :death quanta whenever a creature dies. Stopwatch generates  :aether :time whenever something is delayed.

In both instances, there is a net gain of 2 quanta in return for fulfilling a condition of some sort.

....Soooo why not make the card cost 0? Seems more than fair to me, and honestly I doubt I'd want to use this card when it has such a relatively high price and (imo) little use.
Soul Catcher is a good example for comparison. By 'maffs' do you mean 'Wall of math text'?
Stopwatch produces a duo-output. Soul Catcher produces a mono-output. Doesn't the duo warrant +cost? Also, if the unupped cost 0, what change would you make for the upgraded? The same as Soul Catcher?
While it does warrant +cost for being a duo, that gets balanced by the fact that it's more situational than Soul Catcher (which can run pure mono and works with more cards) and that it forces a duo to be fully effective. I'd recommend changing the cost to 1  :time | 1  :rainbow .

Offline RutareteTopic starter

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445429#msg445429
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 10:25:31 pm »
Of these following, which cost do you prefer? is best?
1. 2 :time | 1 :time
2. 1 :time | 0
3. 1 :time | 1 :rainbow
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Offline Elbirn

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445467#msg445467
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2012, 12:14:03 am »
Option 2, definitely.
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Offline RutareteTopic starter

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Re: Stopwatch | Stopwatch https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27379.msg445957#msg445957
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2012, 10:08:26 pm »
The most common so far is 2 | 1, so I'll probably update it later today.
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