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Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 10:54:15 am

Title: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 10:54:15 am
(http://imgur.com/udrHl.png)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2pt9uzb.png)
NAME:
Sinner
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
5 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|6
TEXT:
:darkness :darkness :darkness Sin:
Generates a random Sin.
NAME:
Wretch
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
6 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|7
TEXT:
:darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness Sin:
Generates two random Sins.
ART:
patchx94, redium
IDEA:
patchx94
NOTES:
Update 5: Added card images with filler art. Added the :darkness in the COST sections of tables.
Update 4: Increased Sin and Wretched Sin's HP. Changed Wretched Sin to Wretch.
Update 3: Changed Greed's skill cost to 2 :darkness.
Update 2: Changed Lust's skill to a one-turn antimatter costing :entropy.
Update 1: Changed Pride's atk|HP from 5|5 to 6|6. Changed Envy's skill cost from :darkness to :darkness :darkness :darkness. Changed Gluttony's atk|HP from 0|5 to 0|3 and changed it's skill from Devour to Engulf to make it an unstoppable form of CC.

So I wanted to make some dark cards based on the Seven Deadly Sins. So I looked up the traditional seven sins, and tried to embody Dante's "Seven Deadly Vices" in each card.

Oh, and if anyone didn't know, Sinner and Wretched Sinner are the only obtainable cards. The Sins can only be obtained through Sinner and Wretch.
SERIES:
N/A
(http://imgur.com/2mnKC.png)
NAME:
Pride
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6|6
TEXT:
:light Greater Good:
Sacrifice a creature and gain +1|+1. Pride never attacks if opponent is outnumbered.
(http://imgur.com/8u14u.png)
NAME:
Greed
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|1
TEXT:
:darkness :darkness Hoard:
Sacrifice Greed to steal 1 quanta of each element from your opponent.
(http://imgur.com/inXSw.png)
NAME:
Lust
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|1
TEXT:
:entropy :entropy :entropy Charm:
Invert the attack power of the target creature for one turn.
(http://imgur.com/EGLzo.png)
NAME:
Wrath
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|6
TEXT:
:fire :fire :fire Vengeance:
Gain +N|+0, where N is the difference between Wrath's current HP and full HP.
(http://imgur.com/cs3rA.png)
NAME:
Gluttony
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|3
TEXT:
:gravity Engulf:
Swallow a smaller (less HP's) creature and gain +0|+2.
(http://imgur.com/W0whv.png)
NAME:
Envy
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|1
TEXT:
:aether Copy:
Sets attack and HP equal to attack and HP of target creature for one turn.
(http://imgur.com/gwKF8.png)
NAME:
Sloth
ELEMENT:
Darkness
COST:
4 :darkness
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
0|1
TEXT:
:time Procrastinate:
Delay target creature for one turn.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: cebra on September 05, 2010, 11:12:42 am
I like the concept, but i don´t think, sinner should create a random sin. Unless you get a lot of Greeds and Novas, you won´t be able to use all your sins. Maybe make the sins standalones and the sinner can combine with one sin, improving its stats or it´s effect?

Also, i don´t like Greed. It´s to cheap, make it cost 2 darkness.
Lust shouldn´t poison. It should delay
Gluttony is too much just a copy of Oty
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 11:14:41 am
If you would like to create card art for this idea, please reply to my art request thread.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12231.new.html
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 11:23:55 am
I like the concept, but i don´t think, sinner should create a random sin. Unless you get a lot of Greeds and Novas, you won´t be able to use all your sins. Maybe make the sins standalones and the sinner can combine with one sin, improving its stats or it´s effect?

Also, i don´t like Greed. It´s to cheap, make it cost 2 darkness.
Lust shouldn´t poison. It should delay
Gluttony is too much just a copy of Oty
Well, that's the point. The skill costs are extremely cheap because while they are a tad underpowered atm, they are extremely OP by themselves.

Pride can pwn if used with fodder.
Wrath can be taken advantage of with Rage Potions.
etc.

Anyways, responding to your comments directed at specific cards:
Greed's skill will be changed to 3 :darkness because I'm scared of fractals.
Sloth fits the delay better, and I don't want to make cards to similar to each other. Plus, think of it as getting an STD. ;)
Well, what do you want me to put on Gluttony? Destroy? Changed Gluttony's skill to make it OP.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 11:29:28 am
 would say lust should be changed.. poison is not a :life trait. its part of :death. Maybe give the creature an effect similar to how the greek myths use sirens. they lure them in and keep them from doing what they were trying to.. until well.. they died shipwrecked.

:life  : target creature gains a % of missing their next attack? 
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 11:32:11 am
would say lust should be changed.. poison is not a :life trait. its part of :death. Maybe give the creature a delay effect similar to how the greek myths use sirens. they lure them in and keep them from doing what they were trying to.. until well.. they died shipwrecked.
Meh, but :death doesn't feel very lusty/charmy. Actually, now I'm thinking of making it a 5 :life adrenaline or a 5 :life adrenaline and poison.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 11:41:12 am
would say lust should be changed.. poison is not a :life trait. its part of :death. Maybe give the creature a delay effect similar to how the greek myths use sirens. they lure them in and keep them from doing what they were trying to.. until well.. they died shipwrecked.
Meh, but :death doesn't feel very lusty/charmy. Actually, now I'm thinking of making it a 5 :life adrenaline or a 5 :life adrenaline and poison.
it didnt seem to take my correction lol
i thought maybe using

:life : target creature has chance to miss its attack. some %  giving adrenaline already exists with the nymph. giving both poison and adrenaline maybe could work. either that or gain hp?
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 01:56:20 pm
would say lust should be changed.. poison is not a :life trait. its part of :death. Maybe give the creature a delay effect similar to how the greek myths use sirens. they lure them in and keep them from doing what they were trying to.. until well.. they died shipwrecked.
Meh, but :death doesn't feel very lusty/charmy. Actually, now I'm thinking of making it a 5 :life adrenaline or a 5 :life adrenaline and poison.
it didnt seem to take my correction lol
i thought maybe using

:life : target creature has chance to miss its attack. some %  giving adrenaline already exists with the nymph. giving both poison and adrenaline maybe could work. either that or gain hp?
LOL, it took your correction, I just replied too fast. :D

After thinking about it, I changed it into a 1-turn Antimatter (:life) called Charm. Other skill concepts include Temptation (No clue, decrease target creature's HP to 1, maybe? It would make a great combo with Wrath.) and Excite (Adrenaline).
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 03:24:30 pm
ah yea u were too quick lol..
still :life doesnt use antimatter... entropy does.. giving a different element an ability it doesnt have doesnt make sense.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 03:59:31 pm
ah yea u were too quick lol..
still :life doesnt use antimatter... entropy does.. giving a different element an ability it doesnt have doesnt make sense.
Mutations? Fallen Elf/Druid's skill? Plus, since when has lust made sense to you? ;)
Fine, I'll change it to Entropy, but I'll have to raise the cost because before u had to dabble in two extra elements to use antimatter and charm..

Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 04:01:39 pm
well lust.. is an odd one to try and convey thru card effects.
could move the creature to your side of the field for a really high cost and it dies at end of turn? fits pretty well..
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 05:01:48 pm
well lust.. is an odd one to try and convey thru card effects.
could move the creature to your side of the field for a really high cost and it dies at end of turn? fits pretty well..
That's what I was thinking at first, but we already have Envy doing that w/o the creature control.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 05:14:47 pm
envy = jealousy.. so why not make that one copy something... but in a lesser form... so .. copy target creature card with 1/2 stats .. so a 10/4 dragon would become a copy for you but 5/2.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: manaboy100 on September 05, 2010, 05:22:31 pm
Seems a good idea for me, but the Greed is UP IMO, because you have to destroy the creature and use some quanta :)
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: AeonSiege on September 05, 2010, 07:14:09 pm
Its a nice idea but IMO the card seem only completely playable in rainbow. I don't think :light should have a sin because if :darkness is absolute evil then :light is absolute good. Pride is more of a hard headed thus I think is :earth. Also, to make this card more rainbow playable, to play any sin you invest in :darkness then having less :darkness to play the effect of greed. I think greed should be :death because :death is an insatiable source.

IMO the elements you shouldn't use for the effect costs are :darkness :light :water :life
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 05, 2010, 07:21:17 pm
Its a nice idea but IMO the card seem only completely playable in rainbow. I don't think :light should have a sin because if :darkness is absolute evil then :light is absolute good. Pride is more of a hard headed thus I think is :earth. Also, to make this card more rainbow playable, to play any sin you invest in :darkness then having less :darkness to play the effect of greed. I think greed should be :death because :death is an insatiable source.

IMO the elements you shouldn't use for the effect costs are :darkness :light :water :life
black = greed.. pests/ steal etc.. pretty greedy.
light should be a card that takes from what is left in pandoras box... hope.. but that card name is taken.. so something that removes sins? a spell that can absolve target sin for X :light where X = cost of the sin in :light quanta?
water.. could be used.. maybe for lust if you went the greek siren route...
life really doesnt fit any true.. but it could fit if the ability using life fits with it and also fits the sin at the same time.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 05, 2010, 07:25:21 pm
envy = jealousy.. so why not make that one copy something... but in a lesser form... so .. copy target creature card with 1/2 stats .. so a 10/4 dragon would become a copy for you but 5/2.
Well, I like Envy's skill right now as it is: basically copy the creature without its skills.
Seems a good idea for me, but the Greed is UP IMO, because you have to destroy the creature and use some quanta :)
Yeah, I was thinking that too.
The reason I made it so expensive was because, if you had a large reserve of :darkness, you could fractal/TU Greeds, and I didn't want them to be a spammable Nova. Assuming your opponent has 1 quanta of each element, one Greed has a net quanta gain of 2, but since you need your opponent to have 1 quanta of each element and rainbow decks have more than enough quanta for -1 of all elements to hinder them AND black hole costs 4 quanta to play; 3 quanta for nymphs, i'll change it to 2...Actually, before i change it, i'll have to ponder between death/dark. gtg sleep, its 3:25 AM
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretched Sinner
Post by: Pineapple on September 06, 2010, 02:16:06 am
Its a nice idea but IMO the card seem only completely playable in rainbow. I don't think :light should have a sin because if :darkness is absolute evil then :light is absolute good. Pride is more of a hard headed thus I think is :earth. Also, to make this card more rainbow playable, to play any sin you invest in :darkness then having less :darkness to play the effect of greed. I think greed should be :death because :death is an insatiable source.

IMO the elements you shouldn't use for the effect costs are :darkness :light :water :life
I admit that using :darkness for a skill for a "rainbow" card is a bit weird game-mechanic-wise, but Greed creates quanta, so it would be weird if it wasn't "neutral." (You're gonna have more :darkness than other quanta, and Other wouldn't work because then Greed would be spammable.) Plus, no :death cards fit greed.

As for Pride:
Sin's aren't absolute evil, they're just things you do (or, in the case of vices, habits you have) that throw you down into hell when you die. Therefore, :darkness isn't absolute evil, and :light wouldn't be absolute good. In addition, I like Pride's skill (Greater Good): killing your ally to make yourself stronger and let you attack "for the greater good" seems pretty arrogant, and thus proud, to me. A sort of twisted form of "good", but befitting of :light nonetheless.

:water and :life...I don't see why they shouldn't be compatible with sins. Lust may create new life ;), and freeze would work well with Sloth.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 08, 2010, 10:13:15 am
So does anyone know the code for an efficient table to put a single card and its card description in?
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 08, 2010, 11:04:09 am
So does anyone know the code for an efficient table to put a single card and its card description in?
? whats wrong with the table in the forum that SG gives in the READ THIS post?
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 08, 2010, 04:51:47 pm
I managed to cut/paste what makes a table with two columns; the card image is in one of the row and column cells, as opposed to being in a merged row 1-column cell.
See "Pride."

SUCCESS. I hope. It works for Pride, and I believe Greed, now I just have to do it on the other 5...Tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: AeonSiege on September 09, 2010, 02:14:22 am
I admit that using :darkness for a skill for a "rainbow" card is a bit weird game-mechanic-wise, but Greed creates quanta, so it would be weird if it wasn't "neutral." (You're gonna have more :darkness than other quanta, and Other wouldn't work because then Greed would be spammable.) Plus, no :death cards fit greed.

As for Pride:
Sin's aren't absolute evil, they're just things you do (or, in the case of vices, habits you have) that throw you down into hell when you die. Therefore, :darkness isn't absolute evil, and :light wouldn't be absolute good. In addition, I like Pride's skill (Greater Good): killing your ally to make yourself stronger and let you attack "for the greater good" seems pretty arrogant, and thus proud, to me. A sort of twisted form of "good", but befitting of :light nonetheless.

:water and :life...I don't see why they shouldn't be compatible with sins. Lust may create new life ;), and freeze would work well with Sloth.

Ummm..... Isn't that absolute evil? Logic tells that if something throws you to hell then it is bad. Anyway, people that think they are good or better than everyone often sin with pride and I get that now from your explanation, a sin covered with something good. Then :life could be lust because of the nature of hormones ;). But :water doesn't convince me for sloth, sloth has more to do with :time
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 11, 2010, 07:48:29 am
People need to reply on the mechanics and discuss this card more.. TT_TT
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Higurashi on September 11, 2010, 09:41:02 am
I think you mean "Hoard" for Greed's skill name, not "Horde".
I suppose these cards are fine. Kinda fun, and not too powerful.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 14, 2010, 10:52:46 am
I think you mean "Hoard" for Greed's skill name, not "Horde".
I suppose these cards are fine. Kinda fun, and not too powerful.
Heh, thanks Higurashi. :D
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 15, 2010, 10:48:54 am
Okay, once 5 people vote "okay" in both of the polls, I'll send this in to the crucible.
Edit: Well, that was quick.

I'm starting not to like this card..I don't really see there being any way to fit this card in any deck except a dark-based rainbow deck structured for the sole purpose of making Sins..
Elements needs more cheap(in terms of how much of a deck must be reserved so the card works), situational cards.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Kuroaitou on September 16, 2010, 11:58:23 pm
CURATOR COMMENT
-Fix the discrepancies between the Text in the table and the card (For Wretch, the card image need to reflect the table's correct text)
-Provide a link or source of artwork that isn't your own (Or specifically, you should cite Wretch's art as being done by redium; if the others are done by you, you can leave that part blank)


Excluding those mistakes, the variances in 'Sins' are decent. (I suppose I personally embody Sloth in both element and in real life XD). I feel that Sinner | Wretch could be the 'rare' cards for Darkness, assuming the cost of Sinner | Wretch is decreased, while the ATK|HP values of some of the other sins (mainly Sloth, Wrath, Greed, and maybe Lust) increase. As you said - this would probably work best in a Darkness-based rainbow, but it'd be a fun card to use.
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 17, 2010, 07:17:03 am
CURATOR COMMENT
-Fix the discrepancies between the Text in the table and the card (For Wretch, the card image need to reflect the table's correct text)
-Provide a link or source of artwork that isn't your own (Or specifically, you should cite Wretch's art as being done by redium; if the others are done by you, you can leave that part blank)
done.


Excluding those mistakes, the variances in 'Sins' are decent. (I suppose I personally embody Sloth in both element and in real life XD). I feel that Sinner | Wretch could be the 'rare' cards for Darkness, assuming the cost of Sinner | Wretch is decreased, while the ATK|HP values of some of the other sins (mainly Sloth, Wrath, Greed, and maybe Lust) increase. As you said - this would probably work best in a Darkness-based rainbow, but it'd be a fun card to use.
As I tried to balance the stats to include ability to buy 6 of the card, it being a rare card would definitely need a decrease in cost and boost in atk|hp, but those changes will be made (if ever) after it goes through all of those stages and then zanz likes it and adds it in the game..plus, i don't like rare cards that require a deck to be built around them (i.e. pharoahs D: )
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Kuroaitou on September 19, 2010, 03:30:41 pm
CURATOR COMMENT
-You have a couple of card text discrepancies to fix still:

As I tried to balance the stats to include ability to buy 6 of the card, it being a rare card would definitely need a decrease in cost and boost in atk|hp, but those changes will be made (if ever) after it goes through all of those stages and then zanz likes it and adds it in the game..plus, i don't like rare cards that require a deck to be built around them (i.e. pharoahs D: )
Pharaohs are hard to build around, true, but that could be said of any rare card actually (most weapons, like flying adrenalined staves; arctic squid decks; decks with miracle; etc.). ;) That said though, the card costs and abilities are probably good as is, and I'm glad that you managed to draw the filler art for your cards. :D (I like the concept of Sloth the best by the way)
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 20, 2010, 02:46:41 pm
CURATOR COMMENT
-You have a couple of card text discrepancies to fix still:
    Wretch: The word 'Sins' needs to have the plural 's' removed to match the imageLust: The part in parenthesis needs to removed from the table so that the text reflects the card image
whoops, sorry about that. done.

As I tried to balance the stats to include ability to buy 6 of the card, it being a rare card would definitely need a decrease in cost and boost in atk|hp, but those changes will be made (if ever) after it goes through all of those stages and then zanz likes it and adds it in the game..plus, i don't like rare cards that require a deck to be built around them (i.e. pharoahs D: )
Pharaohs are hard to build around, true, but that could be said of any rare card actually (most weapons, like flying adrenalined staves; arctic squid decks; decks with miracle; etc.). ;) That said though, the card costs and abilities are probably good as is, and I'm glad that you managed to draw the filler art for your cards. :D (I like the concept of Sloth the best by the way)
I liked my concept of Sloth the best too, but I didn't draw it very well..Just wondering: Do you see two eyes on the top and a smile or a drooping eyelid covering an eye with a bag under it? Cuz (hint-hint) those aren't two eyes on the top.. xD
Title: Re: Sinner | Wretch
Post by: Pineapple on September 21, 2010, 08:22:35 pm
Hey guys, we made it to the Crucible! (cue noisemaker)
Please vote for this card! :3
blarg: