Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 1 - Crucible => Card Ideas and Art => Crucible Archive => Topic started by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 01:00:53 am

Title: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 01:00:53 am

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166628/elements_N2.png)	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166627/elements_NE2.png)
NAME: Seijaku ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent (Weapon) ATK|HP: 4 | 3 when animated. TEXT: Weapon - Deal 4 damage at the end of every turn. Has a 30% chance to deal double damage.	NAME: Seijaku ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent (Weapon) ATK|HP: 7 | 3 when animated. TEXT: Weapon - Deal 7 damage at the end of every turn. Has a 35% chance to deal double damage.

ART: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/45265 IDEA: Zblader NOTES: Has the passive skilled Ranged. Seijaku means Silence. I wanted an original name rather than calling it Shuriken. SERIES:

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166264/elements_N.png)	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166263/elements_NE.png)
NAME: Ninjatsu ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent (Weapon) ATK|HP: 4 | 3 when animated. TEXT: Weapon - Deal 4 damage at the end of every turn. Accuracy - this weapon never misses.	NAME: Ninjatsu ELEMENT: Other COST: 3 TYPE: Weapon ATK|HP: 7 | 3 when animated. TEXT: Weapon - Deal 7 damage at the end of every turn. Accuracy - this weapon never misses.

ART: http://www.sxc.hu/photo/45265 IDEA: Zblader NOTES: A semi-situational weapon that helps to counter shields like Fog Shield, Phase Shield, and Dusk Shield. SERIES:

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ShiningSword on March 30, 2011, 01:20:00 am

Ninjatsu doesnt sound a lot like a weapon name.
This would be some sort of a toned down momentum, im not sure if the mechanic is unique enough for the game(considering we have titan, chargers and momentum, which do the same thing and others as well).

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Newbiecake on March 30, 2011, 01:22:41 am

Phase Shield makes you shift out of phase, therefore making the opponent miss you. No matter how accurate, I don't think this Ninjatsu can attack something that is out of phase.

However, I think you can give it "Ranged" as a passive ability. That way, it can get past Wings while it is in the weapon slot, just like Eagle's Eye.

Btw, you have this card as a spell. Better change it to a permanent.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Wonder on March 30, 2011, 01:28:03 am

Cool idea Zblader :D

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on March 30, 2011, 01:29:29 am

It is called Ninjutsu. Although that is a Shuriken...Ninjutsu is the Martial Art used by the Ninja which was made to exploit the weak areas of the body to disable or kill.

As for the weapon, I love it! Although, the unupped should cost 4 and the upped should cost 5 or 6.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: EmeraldTiger on March 30, 2011, 01:29:54 am

Quote from: Zblader on March 30, 2011, 12:35:50 am

Quote from: EmeraldTiger on March 30, 2011, 12:25:23 am

http://www.sxc.hu/photo/331390
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1056988
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/45265

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Throwing_weapons

Thanks. I had a weapon in mind but lacked something to base it off of. I will using the third image.

We need more ranged weapons.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 02:02:42 am

Just to clear things up - I intentionally spelled it Ninjatsu in an attempt to be original with the name.  So please stop saying I mispelled it.

@Shiningsword - Titan is rare. Similar to the "other" Other weapons I think it would make sense to have more alternatives that can be used in decks (overall this would be a very useful common weapon because it can bypass some shields.)

@Noobiecakes Ranged is already an ability that Short Bow has. Ninjatsu does not need ranged because it can already performed Range'd ability and better. I originally designed the card as a way to get around the haxx shields but since mechanicwise Phase Shield also causes misses I thought it might as well be also helpful to provide a counter to it that all elements can use. (Who knows, you might be warping the opponent's dimension to bring him back into phase. ;) )

Also fixed the error with the spell/permanent icon.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Seraph on March 30, 2011, 03:37:47 am

You have animated upgraded Ninjatsu as 4|3
also, I feel like this is too situational. When would you know to pick ninjatsu over long sword?

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: TuckingFypo on March 30, 2011, 07:02:05 am

I like the concept, and I think it's balanced at the moment. But I wouldn't pick this weapon over any other weapon.  Owl's Eye, for example.  The advantage of CC on a stick is worth more than a guaranteed 4-7 damage that bypasses a couple shields that, although commonly used, aren't seen in every single match.

  I think there needs to be a bigger incentive to use this weapon.  Maybe it could deal double damage when those shields are in play?

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 08:05:01 pm

Quote from: TuckingFypo on March 30, 2011, 07:02:05 am

I like the concept, and I think it's balanced at the moment. But I wouldn't pick this weapon over any other weapon.  Owl's Eye, for example.  The advantage of CC on a stick is worth more than a guaranteed 4-7 damage that bypasses a couple shields that, although commonly used, aren't seen in every single match.

I think there needs to be a bigger incentive to use this weapon.  Maybe it could deal double damage when those shields are in play?

Eagle's Eye is a rare. This card is basically a cheaper/weaker version of Titan that can bypass most shields that make you miss on purpose, and is common for accesbility (sort of like Dagger being a placeholder for the arsenic you may lack in a deck). Lowering the cost to 2 | 2 automatically makes it replace any Short Bows or Gavels.

I like the double damage suggestion, but my main problem is how to fit it on the card text.  :-\

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Flayne on March 30, 2011, 08:17:15 pm

so its a weaker and cheaper Titan?
i recommend changing to teh double damage thing suggested.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 11:10:54 pm

Alright, I've changed the card so that it has a double-damage ability instead of the accuracy ability.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Essence on March 30, 2011, 11:44:58 pm

These items have a name, it's Shuriken (Japanese for "Secret Sword"). Forgive me, but even if it's deliberate, "ninjatsu" is simultaneously misleading, inaccurate, and...well, lame. 

Mechanically, however, they seem on point.  3 Other for a weapon that deals 5.2 damage per round unupped seems about right.  3 Other for a weapon that does 9.45 damage per round upped also seems reasonable.  Do they keep the skill when Animated?  Because if they do, things like Chaos Power could get pretty brutal on them. :)

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Rutarete on March 30, 2011, 11:50:02 pm

I think it would keep the ability if animated, as would crusader. That's a powerful weapon there.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 30, 2011, 11:55:19 pm

Quote from: Essence on March 30, 2011, 11:44:58 pm

These items have a name, it's Shuriken (Japanese for "Secret Sword"). Forgive me, but even if it's deliberate, "ninjatsu" is simultaneously misleading, inaccurate, and...well, lame.  I didn't want to sound generic and Evaria had already made a Shuriken. :(

Mechanically, however, they seem on point.  3 Other for a weapon that deals 5.2 damage per round unupped seems about right.  3 Other for a weapon that does 9.45 damage per round upped also seems reasonable.  Do they keep the skill when Animated?  Because if they do, things like Chaos Power could get pretty brutal on them. :) Yes.

I'm thinking of changing the name to "Seijaku" (Silence) or "Daiyaku" (Double). Would either of those sound good?

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 30, 2011, 11:59:39 pm

+1 original damage with certain marks?
darkness?
(+2 if the double damage activates)

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: Essence on March 31, 2011, 12:03:52 am

Quote from: Zblader on March 30, 2011, 11:55:19 pm

I'm thinking of changing the name to "Seijaku" (Silence) or "Daiyaku" (Double). Would either of those sound good?

Seijaku is definately the cooler name. :) I'd be all for that.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 31, 2011, 12:06:47 am

Quote from: TheIdioticIdiot on March 30, 2011, 11:59:39 pm

+1 original damage with certain marks?
darkness?
(+2 if the double damage activates)

No. I am not aiming for another mark weapon (We already have 3, so it would be redundant), and that would also not fit on the card text.

Quote from: Essence on March 31, 2011, 12:03:52 am

Quote from: Zblader on March 30, 2011, 11:55:19 pm

I'm thinking of changing the name to "Seijaku" (Silence) or "Daiyaku" (Double). Would either of those sound good?

Seijaku is definately the cooler name. :) I'd be all for that.

Seijaku it is.  :)

Offtopic : Also congrats on the 100 Karma Essence!

EDIT: Name change done.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 31, 2011, 12:26:11 am

I don't think it's redundant
if we have a weapon that gives a bonus with mark, there is a series..

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 31, 2011, 12:52:12 am

Quote from: TheIdioticIdiot on March 31, 2011, 12:26:11 am

I don't think it's redundant
if we have a weapon that gives a bonus with mark, there is a series..

Even then, I still do not want this to be a mark based weapon. It's damage is already high enough as is and it would overflow the card text.

Title: Re: Ninjatsu | Ninjatsu
Post by: SnoWeb on March 31, 2011, 08:41:03 am

Quote from: Zblader on March 30, 2011, 11:10:54 pm

Alright, I've changed the card so that it has a double-damage ability instead of the accuracy ability.

A lot better and more original. Good work.
Just a point: I am not sure what a Seijaku is. I thought the weapon corresponding to your image was called Shuriken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken) ...

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 31, 2011, 08:56:28 pm

*sigh* Due to the rate that people ask why it's not named Shuriken, I am going to put it in the notes.

I intentionally wanted to make this card with an original sounding name, so I started with "Ninjatsu" due to it being the title of the photo.  However the name didn't float so well so I changed it to "Seijaku", which means "Silence", which has the Essence Seal of Approval. :D

Quote from: Essence on March 31, 2011, 12:03:52 am

Quote from: Zblader on March 30, 2011, 11:55:19 pm

I'm thinking of changing the name to "Seijaku" (Silence) or "Daiyaku" (Double). Would either of those sound good?

Seijaku is definately the cooler name. :) I'd be all for that.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: TimerClock14 on April 02, 2011, 06:17:52 pm

CURATOR COMMENT:
Your card is incredibly similar to this one (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7517.0.html) that is already in the crucible archive. If you wish to send this to crucible, it will be tagged as a remake of the linked card. You can also choose to completely redo your card, or tweak it, or something else. :)
I'll delete your post on the crucible thread now, and you can resubmit it when you have decided what you want to do.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: Essence on April 03, 2011, 03:52:40 am

Umm...no offense intended, TC14, but I entirely disagree.  The two are "incredibly similar" in that they're both throwing stars, but mechanically they couldn't be more different.  It's like saying that Morning Star and Lobotomizer are "incredibly similar" because they're both sword-shaped.

Can we get a second opinion on this?

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ddevans96 on April 03, 2011, 03:55:24 am

What Essence said. These two cards are completely different mechanics.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: Rutarete on April 03, 2011, 03:56:54 am

Quote from: ddevans96 on April 03, 2011, 03:55:24 am

What Essence said. These two cards are completely different mechanics.

I also agree.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: willng3 on April 03, 2011, 03:58:08 am

What the other two three said...the Element, the mechanic and the name are totally different.

I like this card a lot more after the change.  And the name is pretty awesome IMO :)

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 04, 2011, 12:55:29 am

Woah, that's a lot of support right there, thanks guys!  :)

I had done some browsing and found the cards you were talking about:

Shuriken | Silent Shuriken by Hyroen (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7517.0.html)
Evaria's Remake as Shuriken | Shuriken (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18248.0.html)

Seijaku
- Other
- Deals a steady amount of damage when Animated.
- Relies on a chance to increase damage potential, making it benefical to ATK buff and Endow.


Shuriken (Using Eva's version)
- Air
- Can self-animate in a diving manner, but is useless to animate itself.
- Could possibly be Endowed by a Crusader as an Animate Weapon source.
- If buffed at all, would rely on an HP buff to work.

I think the differences are good enough, so I will resubmit this to the Crucible.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: TimerClock14 on April 04, 2011, 01:40:07 pm

Quote from: Essence on April 03, 2011, 03:52:40 am

Umm...no offense intended, TC14, but I entirely disagree.  The two are "incredibly similar" in that they're both throwing stars, but mechanically they couldn't be more different.  It's like saying that Morning Star and Lobotomizer are "incredibly similar" because they're both sword-shaped.

Can we get a second opinion on this?

Upon closer inspection, that's not the only thing that is similar.

The attack for the unupgraded are exactly the same, and the upgraded differ slightly.

However, you all are completely correct that the mechanics differ far too greatly. Zblader has decided to go with this, and I will not object.

Apologies for any inconveniences.


EDIT:
CURATOR COMMENT:
-Please change the TYPE section in the second column of your table to match the text in the first column. ("weapon" should be "Permanent(weapon)")

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 04, 2011, 08:43:16 pm

Quote from: TimerClock14 on April 04, 2011, 01:40:07 pm

Apologies for any inconveniences.

You caught a mistake anyway, so it's all good. ^_^

Fixed.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: zse on April 09, 2011, 02:51:43 pm

Interesting card and mechanism. I bet this, if implemented in game, would generate massive amount of discussion like Hax Shields do now. ;)

My only concern in this card is using it with Crusader. Would it be possible to get those doubled damages =12+8|20+14 with that 2 card combo? Not that it would be totally OP, but it would only cost 10 :light.

Title: Re: Seijaku | Seijaku
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 09, 2011, 05:14:43 pm

Quote from: zse on April 09, 2011, 02:51:43 pm

Interesting card and mechanism. I bet this, if implemented in game, would generate massive amount of discussion like Hax Shields do now. ;)

My only concern in this card is using it with Crusader. Would it be possible to get those doubled damages =12+8|20+14 with that 2 card combo? Not that it would be totally OP, but it would only cost 10 :light.

Yes, you could get double damage but with a 30% | 35% chance you're paying 3 Other to get a weapon that can deal 5.2 damage | 9.45 damage as Essence stated earlier, which seems okay considering the damage ratio for Short Bow and Gavel and Short Sword: Ratio for Seijaku
Unupgraded 5.2/3 = 1.73 damage for 1 quantum.
Upgraded 9.45/3 =  3.15 damage for 1 quantum.
Ratio for Short Bow/Gavel (W/Mark damage)
Unupgraded 4/2 = 2 damage for 1 quantum.
Upgraded 7/2 = 3.5 damage for 1 quantum.
Ratio for Short Sword
Unupgraded 3/1 = 3 damage for 1 quantum.
Upgraded 6/1 = 6 damage for 1 quantum.Short Sword is still overall the most cost efficient, but it's often used in rush decks that don't have the mark for Short Bow or Gavel. Seijaku has the best ability out of the three for animation and sadering but as a result it does slightly less damage and works in different decks :)